TX Fire 1 and VFD TAC channels

[F350-6]

If this is the wrong place to post let me know and I'll run back to the newbie section. I've been listening about some fires down in my neck of the woods and a couple have gotten big and the VFD's have been advised to switch over to Tx Fire 1 when on site. I haven't been able to hear any of the communications on Tx Fire 1 (154.2800) until today, and then it was only one person that I heard. He kept carrying on a conversation with someone, but I couldn't hear the other party. The person I heard I'm guessing was from the Texas Forest Service based on what he was sending to help. Does this mean the Tx fire 1 & 2 are just short range channels that don't go through any towers and you must be close to listen in?

And as long as I've started a thread, I've programmed the local TAC channels for the county VFD's. I will occasionally get static from a few channels, but have yet to hear any communication on any of those channels. Is this another short range type broadcast channel?

Johnson county does have a few fire channels that unfortunately, have been rather busy lately. I'm just wondering what else I might be missing.

 

[F350-6]

I just heard them refer folks to Tx Fire 3, which again is something I probably won't hear, and since I don't have it programmed in, I went to the database to find it and stick it in my freescan file.

Now my next question is, Tx Fire 3 shows to be 154.29500 and a tone of 127.3. That sounds simple, but when I went to add it and place it in line, I noticed that Hill County Fire is 154.29500 with a tone of 100.0.

I'm still new enough I have no clue what the difference in tone makes. Should I program them both in?

 

[nd5y]

Everything on 154.280 is simplex. Most of the other interop channels are simplex.
Common/Shared Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Depending on your elevation and whether or not you have an outside antenna you may not be able to hear units on the ground more than a few miles. You should be able to hear aircraft much farther. I am in Mineral Wells and can hear the air attack plane over the Johnson County fire.

If all you are listening to is your county channels you are missing a lot.
Most of the fire activity is on Texas Forest Service frequencies.
Texas Forest Service Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
Texas Forest Service (TX) - The RadioReference Wiki

Some of the federal fire units have been using NIFC TAC 1, 2 & 3 recently.
National Incident Radio Support Cache - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[nd5y]

As a general rule you should not program tones at all unless you need them to keep out noise or interference or unwanted stations.
Some of the fire depts in Texas are still CSQ (carrier squelch or no tone) on the interop channels.

 

[nd5y]

Right now on the Johnson County fire
122.925 air-to-air
159.300 air-to-ground
159.420/151.160 TFS Granbury & Whitt repeaters. You are probably too far to hear the repeaters but you should be able to hear the aircraft on the input (151.160)

 

[F350-6]

Depending on your elevation and whether or not you have an outside antenna you may not be able to hear units on the ground more than a few miles. You should be able to hear aircraft much farther. I am in Mineral Wells and can hear the air attack plane over the Johnson County fire.

I'm still learning how to operate the scanner. Still too new to have thought through an outside antenna yet.

If all you are listening to is your county channels you are missing a lot.
Most of the fire activity is on Texas Forest Service frequencies.
Texas Forest Service Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
Texas Forest Service (TX) - The RadioReference Wiki

Some of the federal fire units have been using NIFC TAC 1, 2 & 3 recently.
National Incident Radio Support Cache - The RadioReference Wiki

If I program those in too, will I just be hearing the local stuff, or do they have some repeater towers that cover several counties where I end up hearing all the fire traffic going on out near you?

I guess just the local stuff if you're only hearing the air near me with what I presume is your outside antenna. In that case, thanks for the links. I'll work stick those in now.

As a general rule you should not program tones at all unless you need them to keep out noise or interference or unwanted stations.
Some of the fire depts in Texas are still CSQ (carrier squelch or no tone) on the interop channels.

Good to know. I saw the tone listed on the database here, and saw a box to enter the tone in the freescan software, so I just figured I was supposed to put it in. I'll try pulling the tones out and see what difference that makes.

 

[F350-6]

I'm in the far Southeast corner of the county. I can hear the air communications nowl, but it's much softer than any other channels. I'm still picking up lots of static on the local VFD TAC channel 46.4400. I've temporarily locked out the others for now, but want to keep the local one active in case something pips up closer to home.

 

[hiegtx]

Chris,

On the file I sent you, Texas Fire 1, 2, & 3 are in the Texas ForestSvc system. The database shows them as using the 127.3 tone. However, as Tom noted, some agencies do not use the tone.

You can go into that system, using FreeScan.
They are in the "Agency wide" group.
You can either go in and change the entry in the "Tone" column from the 127.3 to "None", or add them a second time, with no tone.

To add them a second time with no tone:
Hold down the <Shift> key or <CTRL> key & highlight those three channels.
Now, copy them to clipboard with <CTRL>+<C>
Down at the bottom of the screen, in small print, you'll see '3 channels copied to the clipboard'.
Now, paste those three channels back in, with <CTRL>+<V>.
For the three just added, change the tone setting to "None".

You now have the channels with a specific setting, as well as an entry with no tone setting.

When I was listening to a working fire out near P-K a couple of weeks ago, the tone was being used. (I have these channels elsewhere in the scanner for the file I use in that area, with no tone settings.) But each incident is different, it seems. As Tom has noted, they are apparently now using the NIFC channels at times. I'll be adding those to my file. I've also added the new air-to-air frequency Tom noted up in the Incidents and Breaking news section.

 

[nd5y]

Everything is simplex (direct, no tower or repeater used) except for the TFS regional repeaters.
I don't know if you can hear any of the repeaters in Johnson County (assuming that is where you are located). I don't know how far you will be able to hear units on the ground direct. You have to figure that out yourself based on your local topography.

I don't have an outside antenna. I have several that I use inside. I have heard mobiles as far as 20 miles away.
The Air Attack and Lead planes typically orbit about 2000-4000 ft above ground level and I can hear them about 100 miles or so. The helicopters are usually very low and normally I can't hear them much farther than 30 miles or so.

 

[F350-6]

I'm still confused by the tone / no tone thing. Guess I've got some reading to do. If you program the freq in with no tone, wouldn't it pick up anything on that freq, or does it ignore a broadcast if the tone is sent? I saved a copy of my current file after switching all the tones to None. Do I need to have some channels programmed in with both tone and no tone?

 

[F350-6]

Everything is simplex (direct, no tower or repeater used) except for the TFS regional repeaters.

That's surprising. I had assumed they were like the old Motorola radios we used to use at work (before cell phones became more affordable) and you could turn to a certain channel and it was broadcast through towers. I can hear all the different trucks talking if they are on Johnson County Fire Ops 154.4225 or JC Fire East 155.295, of JC Fire North 155.415, weather they are just leaving their station or on site at the fire. It's when they switch over to some of the other channels that I seem to lose them, or just pick up static.

 

[hiegtx]

I'm still confused by the tone / no tone thing. Guess I've got some reading to do. If you program the freq in with no tone, wouldn't it pick up anything on that freq, or does it ignore a broadcast if the tone is sent? I saved a copy of my current file after switching all the tones to None. Do I need to have some channels programmed in with both tone and no tone?

You do not have to have it programmed both ways. If you program it with Tone set for none, you'll hear everything.

With the tone programmed (whether that's 127.3 or some other PL tone or DCS code), you'd hear only those units (base, mobile units (vehicles), handhelds, whatever) that transmitted a tone along with their voice traffic.

If you have the frequency programmed without any tone/code (that column in FreeScan would be set to None), then you'd hear any transmission, with or without a tone/code present.
**Note** On the 396XT & 996XT, this is assuming that you have the audio type set to either "Analog only" or to "All".
If you have audio type set to "Digital only", then the Tone/Code field will be set as None. You would not hear any analog transmissions at all, only digital ones. With audio set as digital, you can then set a NAC code (look at the TX DPS system for examples) or enter "Search in the field for NAC and let the scanner find what NAC, if any, is in use.

I leave the tone in, on Texas Fire 1 (154.280) here in town, for a very simple reason. I've got so many sources of radio "noise around me, that if I have it in, with no tone, the scanner will lock up on the frequency, as if there was an open mike. Cedar Hill, with the Sherwood Forest of transmitter towers (all of which have multiple repeaters staged up & down them) is a few miles southwest of me. Downtown Dallas, where many of the taller buildings have repeaters leasing space on the top floor, is a few miles northeast. So, a lot of rf in the air.

 

[loumaag]

That's surprising. I had assumed they were like the old Motorola radios we used to use at work (before cell phones became more affordable) and you could turn to a certain channel and it was broadcast through towers. I can hear all the different trucks talking if they are on Johnson County Fire Ops 154.4225 or JC Fire East 155.295, of JC Fire North 155.415, weather they are just leaving their station or on site at the fire. It's when they switch over to some of the other channels that I seem to lose them, or just pick up static.

Chris,
Just to help you understand, the reason those tactical channels are simplex (no repeater) is that is all that is needed at a fire scene. Since, for example, TX Fire 1 is generally able to be used by all departments and agencies interested in fire suppression throughout the state; you don't want someone working a fire 30 miles away interfering with your communications at a local fire. From a scanner hobbyist viewpoint, it is frustrating to be listening to a fire working on the other side of the county and then they all go simplex at the scene and you lose it. But from the folks fighting the fire point of view, that is all that is needed or desired. That way they are not bothered by things that have nothing to do with the task at hand.

 

[F350-6]

I understand. It's frustrating because out in the country, you do want to hear what's going on within 20 miles of your house. I can understand how that would be way too far in the city.

I think for now I'll just program all the VFD TAC channels in a separate system that I can access if any of the fires get really close or if I'm mobile.

I'm slowly getting the hang of this. Thanks for putting up with my very basic questions so far.