Uniden tuner utility needed.

[gary123]

This is a spilt off the SDS200 waterfall thread.

To Uniden.

Many of your in service scanners 436/536/100/200/992 are starting to show frequency drift. The dirft is usually only 300-1000hertz. This is enough to cause decode and channel capture issues for the end user. Especially on P25 Phase II and simulcast systems. Everyone must bear in mind there is nothing physically wrong with the hardware components and this is NOT a warranty item or defective component issue.. This is strictly a tuning/alignment issue caused by the natural aging of components.

What is needed and would be helpful for the whole scanning community would be a single standalone alignment utility for the scanners. This utility would allow the end user to net the receiver back on frequency. NOTHING else. The app should come with a disclaimer. "If used Uniden is not responsible for ANY issues caused by the use of the utility or the unit being off frequency, failing to operate properly due to the frequency setting or being adjusted improperly." It should also "highly recommend that the utility be only used by qualified technicians and not as a 'self help' solution. Furthermore a unit with a suspected frequency drift issue should be sent to a authorized service center for "lab" recalibration." These facilities have the test equipment to do a proper and complete alignment if required.

For emphasis the utility would ONLY allow the end user to adjust the 'reference oscillator' setting so that it is back on the center frequency the unit is programmed to. Many of us are seeing more and more posts where the possible/probable cause is the scanner is slightly off frequency. The amount of off frequency is small but has a huge impact on the hardware's performance. Typically 500hz is enough to start causing one or more of the symptoms below.

- poor or highly unreliable system lock with the squelch set at 2 or higher. This is really noticeable on 7/8/9 trunked systems (DMR/P25 and NXDN) and individual frequencies. Especially if the signal is not 'blasting in'.
- on trunked control channels system lock is achieved but no or intermittent migration to voice channels occurs
- on trunked systems certain TG's will be decoded properly on some system voice channels but not others. This results in intermittent or garbled decode on and off.
- during any frequency search the scanner will often bypass active frequencies going up in frequency but capture them going down in frequency (or vice versa).
- on Close Call the captured frequency is displayed one frequency step higher or lower. Very noticeable with step sizes of 5khz or similar

Units displaying these issues have been verified to be programmed properly and are using known tested and functioning configurations directly from the Sentinel (RR) database. This is a simple fixable issue and will result in improved performance for the customer base. It will significantly reduce customer complaints of poor or degrading performance. The customer base will see that Uniden is indeed proactive and wishes each user to have the best performance out of their hardware possible. This type of support will also translate into users upgrading hardware to higher capacity and featured products.

 

[n1ofj]

What would be nice is these receivers having the ability to hook up an external frequency reference i.e. 10 MHz, which would make frequency stability a non-issue.

 

[MStep]

In the post-Opitz world of Uniden, I don't think the company has the initiative to develop anything along the lines as you have described. But perhaps someone technically astute here on RR will pick up on your suggestion and follow up.

 

[RaleighGuy]

With all the posts I see about trouble figuring out a favorites list, I can just imagine the number of posts trying to figure this out. But I do like the idea

 

[a417]

With all the posts I see about trouble figuring out a favorites list, I can just imagine the number of posts trying to figure this out.

Seriously, for some I completely agree. There are people I wouldn't trust with a spork, let alone tuning software.


I like @gary123's idea. You can't put enough "Thar be dragons" warnings on it, though. Either way, those people always have friends who do radios and say they can fix it...so it'll be good.

 

[mancow]

How are you detecting the drift with no transmitter to provide a reference?

 

[mmckenna]

Seriously, for some I completely agree. There are people I wouldn't trust with a spork, let alone tuning software.

How are you detecting the drift with no transmitter to provide a reference?

Same thing I was thinking. When I first read the post, the immediate reaction was "You'll shoot your eye out, kid.".

I agree, if the receivers are drifting, they need to be fixed. But I don't think average Joe scanner listener has the tools or knowledge to do it right. I can see someone assuming a particular radio transmitter is "spot on accurate" and assuming they can adjust to that, but I'm sure Uniden would see the issues with that.

 

[merlin]

Hey, If you can adjust the TCXO in high end commercial radios using Putty or Teminal, then ???
If there is any in house adjustment software, it hasn't leaked to the wild that I know of.
Cheers.

 

[gary123]

Uniden has their own internal tuning software. This software allows you to adjust more than the reference frequency. Obviously allowing end users to change other parameters would be an extremely bad idea. Allowing the adjustment of this one parameter is at the threshold of "is this a good idea". In my opinion it is, this single adjustment DEPENDING on how much 'range' it varies the reference frequency is no more dangerous than a 'clarifier' control on a Ham, shortwave or CB radio. The SDS scanners already incorporate features such as attenuator, IFX, internal filter settings etc for the end user.

As far as making the utility. The existing Uniden tuner could be edited and trimmed to support reading, editing and writing of the one parameter we are interested in. Nothing else. The software could even incorporate a maximum value change of 5 steps from the read value as a additional safety feature.

How are you detecting the drift with no transmitter to provide a reference?

A good point and well brought up. Sadly I fall into the category of

"highly recommend that the utility be only used by qualified technicians"

and have access to calibrated test equipment. Many if not the vast majority of end users neither have direct access to test equipment and proper personnel. I believe that the proposed limit of a maximum 5 steps is all that is needed for the vast majority of hardware to be brought back to the center freq. Exactly how a end user will achieve this aside from trial and error (not recommended) is something we need to discuss.

I agree 100% that any new idea or process is ripe for misuse either intentional or not. I can say that if we limit any new changes or ideas to "what is foolproof and safe under any conditions" then nothing will progress or improve. This is why I brought up the desire for a tweaking utility in these forums. They are the best place to get a good sampling of opinions and thoughts. We know that the membership here ranges from the most basic user to highly qualified and experienced experts. Issues like how will the end user actually use the utility is exactly the type of thing that needs to be discussed pro and con.

 

[donc13]

In MY experience with a "clarifier" such as used in ham, shortwave and CB Radios is only used in SSB mode.

 

[garys]

Probably not the same thing, but didn't Airspy release some sort of alignment software back a few years ago? Some of their units drifted for reasons I can't recall.

 

[Ubbe]

Letting a user tune the ref oscillator, or even other service mode parameters, would be equal to let a user adjust the squelch level, or manually hand program systems directly on the scanner. If done in an inproperate way it will make the scanner function less optimal.

Most, maybe all, digital transmitters are frequency controlled by GPS so it would be a matter of enabling the attenuator and select a weak transmitter and adjust a scanners frequency for minimum bit error. For non I/Q scanners the FM detector will have a DC voltage that varies with the frequency error that can be used, that some scanners use for a ZeroMatic feature.

/Ubbe

 

[dave3825]

but didn't Airspy release some sort of alignment software back a few years ago?

They did.

 

[redbeard]

What would be nice is these receivers having the ability to hook up an external frequency reference i.e. 10 MHz, which would make frequency stability a non-issue.

This would make a nice add-on board for a 200. Someone should make this. It's probably as easy as finding a small hobby GPS receiver with a programmable Fo and panel mounting it to the rear with a shielded jumper to where the old TCXO was.

 

[gary123]

Ubbe's suggestion of using a signal and adjusting for minimum errors would work for those without test equipment. Having an external reference would be nice but if I were to wish for an external output it would be a discriminator type output (on the SDS series).

 

[NoahWL]

Same thing I was thinking. When I first read the post, the immediate reaction was "You'll shoot your eye out, kid.".

I agree, if the receivers are drifting, they need to be fixed. But I don't think average Joe scanner listener has the tools or knowledge to do it right. I can see someone assuming a particular radio transmitter is "spot on accurate" and assuming they can adjust to that, but I'm sure Uniden would see the issues with that.

This mindset is absurd. It's my scanner and if I "break" it that's on me. Guess how much special equipment I used to realign my BCT8 after replacing the ceramic filters? None. Find a few known stations like WWVB or NOAA, tune out the offset, good enough. We're not sending our scanners to space nor are they life-saving equipment. Not to mention, it's 2023. Average Joe Scanner likely can generate a perfectly suitable test signal (and beyond) with something like a TinySA Ultra, which is exactly what I used to align my TS430s.

Worst case scenario Uniden adds another troubleshooting step: "Did you try resetting the drift offset back to 0ppm?"

 

[mmckenna]

This mindset is absurd. It's my scanner and if I "break" it that's on me.

Except Uniden knows that most won't have the knowledge or skill and will screw it up. Those individuals will hop on sites like this (like the already do) or social media and start bashing the brand.

Much easier for Uniden to have the customer send it in for repair.

But, if you want to open yours up and tweak the oscillator, go right ahead. Question wasn't about if you could do it. Question was about if Uniden should release the tools.

 

[KevinC]

I GOT IT!!! Make it a paid feature to be able to adjust the reference oscillator.

I'm so freaking smart.

 

[buddrousa]

That would be why your mother calls you SUN

 

[NoahWL]

Except Uniden knows that most won't have the knowledge or skill and will screw it up. Those individuals will hop on sites like this (like the already do) or social media and start bashing the brand.

Much easier for Uniden to have the customer send it in for repair.

Anyone that does that is too braindead to make it past the "nothing to scan" screen. They'll just be complaining something else instead.

Uniden absolutely should make available the tools required to repair their products, just as car manufacturers are required to now, and how Apple and other phone manufacturers are soon to be forced to.

Question wasn't about if you could do it. Question was about if Uniden should release the tools.

You said:

But I don't think average Joe scanner listener has the tools or knowledge to do it right. I can see someone assuming a particular radio transmitter is "spot on accurate" and assuming they can adjust to that, but I'm sure Uniden would see the issues with that.

Whether or not the average user would be able to do it is precisely the question you introduced... Admittedly you skipped the question part and jumped to assuming most people will screw it up.