AR-DV1 Updated AR-DV1 Review

[swman]

This review has now been greatly updated.

N9EWO Review : AOR AR-DV1 "Digital Voice Receiver"

 

[woodpecker]

Looks like test sample 1 suffers from frequency drift like the DV10, guess they never learnt the lesson and carried on producing off frequency rubbish.

 

[marlbrook]

It is very rare for me to disagree with Woodpecker.

However in my experience my DV-1 does not drift with temperature or have off frequency issues.. It has the MK1 board, so I cannot comment on the MK2.

The DV10 is a different matter, and imagining many or all its defects may also apply to the AR-DV1 retrospectively, just because AOR produce both, is hardly fair..

N9EWO puts a lot of work into his Reviews. I have followed them for some time, and have a great deal of respect for him. Nevertheless if read carefully there is a 'mix' of highly accurate, but in some cases 'subjective' conclusions. That is 'his way'

I could quote several examples, but I won't as this is not criticism of N9EWO, his work or his excellent Reviews.

When it comes to TEST results, and many other comments N9EWO makes, people would be wise to seriously take into account what he writes. Nevertheless one should also consider each conclusion carefully, always ask 'actually is this a matter of individual taste (subjective)', and decide if that point would therefore be applicable to them.

Of course this applies to almost all Reviews and Reviewers to some extent. If you believe in their 'objective' remarks and integrity then fine, but try not to be seduced into also accepting as 'Gospel' everything when it comes to 'subjective' conclusions that are intermingled with other 'objective' ones.

I repeat, with absolute sincerity, people should consult N9EWO's Reviews. There is much factual information to learn from them, and deserve high praise.

 

[woodpecker]

You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with his test results, if its a few hundred Hz off at HF its out of spec like the DV10.

I've not actually measured the drift/error of my DV1 although I can tell its not in the same league as Icom just by listening to beacons and SSB with it.

 

[marlbrook]

I take your point of course.

What I am getting at is that in my opinion no two Receivers, of the same model, can be guaranteed to to have no variation in their frequency interpretation. That is OK by me providing the frequencies remain stable. The Review of the second DV1 shows much better figures.

I own Receivers from many Companies, and like them all in their own way.

My AR-DV1 has frequency stability, and its frequency accuracy is acceptable throughout its range. Totally 'subjective', but true nevertheless. If my receiver is not 100% on frequency, then it is slight enough not to prevent it picking up Analogue and in particular Digital signals. At HF, a slight variance may produce a slight tone difference perhaps for CW and SSB signals, compared with a different Receiver, but not enough to make them sound strange or necessitate a re-tune.

Also 'how really accurate' is the transmitted frequency we are monitoring'? We on the 'receive' side never know that. I imagine Transmitters accuracy vary too, which makes things like CW and SSB comparisons of the received signal on different receivers even more problematic. e.g if the Transmitted frequency is .001% off and the Receiver is .001% off in the same direction. all seems 'perfect'.

The reality is that there are always going to me margins of error, and consequently not worth worrying about, if they are within an acceptable range, and stable. My 'very' personal opinion is that the AR-DV1 falls within that acceptable range.

Prior to the DV10, all the AOR receivers I owned I found to be very good. Not perfect of course, but well worth having and suited my needs and expectations. My opinion of those Receivers is not swayed retrospectively by the DV10, just because AOR markets that too.

 

[woodpecker]

Also 'how really accurate' is the transmitted frequency we are monitoring'? We on the 'receive' side never know that. I imagine Transmitters accuracy vary too, which makes things like CW and SSB comparisons of the received signal on different receivers even more problematic. e.g if the Transmitted frequency is .001% off and the Receiver is .001% off in the same direction. all seems 'perfect'.

The WWV radio system is accurate to within 1 part in 10^14 which is likely better than some test equipment around.

WWV (radio station) - Wikipedia

The error at 15MHz equates to a 22ppm error which is way out of spec and puts it in a similar leagure to the DV10, maybe I should measure my DV1, I highly suspect I would find it simlar to the DV10 after they applied the firmware botch.

It don't think it would be as bad as the DV10 was before the firmware oscillator stepping nonsense was applied though.

 

[marlbrook]

I did appreciate some transmitters will be carefully set up and as near to being spot on frequency as possible. Not many Amateur Radio ones I suspect. I am of an age when I had to be prepared to tune around a bit to hear the signal I was after especially SSB or CW signal just at the pitch I wanted, so even if I have to twitch the DV1 occasionally to do that sometimes it does not phase me, lol.

I can only speak for my AR-DV1. If for example I hear someone saying they are moving to 14.319 and I enter that frequency, there they are, which is good enough for me. Applies equally to my current 'in use' Radios, the FT818ND and the Icom IC-30. What you enter is what you get, providing the transmitted frequency is accurate of course.

As we both know the DV10 would not consistently fall into that group, either from the entered frequency point of view or staying tuned to it.

I am not saying the AR-DV1 is the greatest, or best Receiver, depending on what anyone wants to listen to, but having been in a position to compare my AR-DV1 with the other Radios I mentioned, and the DV10, the DV1 does its job OK for me and if anyone is concerned about considering a DV1, because of the DV10's problems, it does not share them.

Some may think I have an 'axe to grind' by supporting the AR-DV1 because of eSPYonARD, however not just because the DV10 can still not be fully controlled externally because of faulty firmware, I abandoned the program I was writing for that, which was very near completion, because on principle I believed then as now I should not support it.

 

[SigIntel8600]

It is very rare for me to disagree with Woodpecker.

However in my experience my DV-1 does not drift with temperature or have off frequency issues.. It has the MK1 board, so I cannot comment on the MK2.

The DV10 is a different matter, and imagining many or all its defects may also apply to the AR-DV1 retrospectively, just because AOR produce both, is hardly fair..

N9EWO puts a lot of work into his Reviews. I have followed them for some time, and have a great deal of respect for him. Nevertheless if read carefully there is a 'mix' of highly accurate, but in some cases 'subjective' conclusions. That is 'his way'

I could quote several examples, but I won't as this is not criticism of N9EWO, his work or his excellent Reviews.

When it comes to TEST results, and many other comments N9EWO makes, people would be wise to seriously take into account what he writes. Nevertheless one should also consider each conclusion carefully, always ask 'actually is this a matter of individual taste (subjective)', and decide if that point would therefore be applicable to them.

Of course this applies to almost all Reviews and Reviewers to some extent. If you believe in their 'objective' remarks and integrity then fine, but try not to be seduced into also accepting as 'Gospel' everything when it comes to 'subjective' conclusions that are intermingled with other 'objective' ones.

I repeat, with absolute sincerity, people should consult N9EWO's Reviews. There is much factual information to learn from them, and deserve high praise.

I think N9EWO's review is spot on for the most part, important (to me) quotes follow............

"Do NOT confuse the above information being "off frequency" as drift, the AR-DV1 is actually quite stable."

"What other “standalone” radio receiver on the market can decode most of the widely used digital modes with the neat side to also listen on the HF / MW or FM broadcasting bands with the SAME radio (with having half way decent RF performance)"

"The AR-DV1 is excellent for hunting new unknown digital signals with its auto mode. Dedicated scanners can decode DMR and NXDN, but lack all others like D-Star and Yaesu Fusion. Yes one can use a low lost “SDR dongle” and the DSD+ program tied to a computer, but that is royal pain in the rump to make happen (plus even more marginal decode quality) and of course is not a standalone alternative."

What do you guys think of his suggestion to run firmware version 1805 if TETRA decode is not needed?

 

[woodpecker]

I think N9EWO's review is spot on for the most part, important (to me) quotes follow............

"Do NOT confuse the above information being "off frequency" as drift, the AR-DV1 is actually quite stable."

"What other “standalone” radio receiver on the market can decode most of the widely used digital modes with the neat side to also listen on the HF / MW or FM broadcasting bands with the SAME radio (with having half way decent RF performance)"

"The AR-DV1 is excellent for hunting new unknown digital signals with its auto mode. Dedicated scanners can decode DMR and NXDN, but lack all others like D-Star and Yaesu Fusion. Yes one can use a low lost “SDR dongle” and the DSD+ program tied to a computer, but that is royal pain in the rump to make happen (plus even more marginal decode quality) and of course is not a standalone alternative."

What do you guys think of his suggestion to run firmware version 1805 if TETRA decode is not needed?

The DV1 does drift, after 15 mins listening to the GB3UHF beacon it had drifted out of the 200Hz CW filter window, it may not be a massve drift but its crap if you want to do accurate weak signal work.

As for its digital decode, DSDPlus is way superior in error rate, audio quality and information decoded, DMR on the DV1 is very robotic sounding and suffers chronic break up and chopping as the signal gets marginal even the DV10 beats it on DMR audio quality! The automode filter just like the DV10 is too wide for DMR, DStar and NXDN48, its certainly not excellent if you try and pick out a NXDN signal spaced 3.125KHz from a DMR signal, it can't do it.

It may be a jack of all trades but its a master of none and it doesn't decode P25 Phase 2

Its a typical AOR product, not as bad as the DV10 but not that great, it may not be stand alone but an RSP1A SDR with DSD+ blows it away.

 

[marlbrook]

What do you guys think of his suggestion to run firmware version 1805 if TETRA decode is not needed?

The key thing about that is he states that the symptoms were 'intermittent'.

Believe me when it comes to 'intermittent' problems I am a bl**dy' expert. Quite quickly one gets to the stage when 'grasping at straws' seems logical and sensible.

Until an issue is really tied down, any 'cause and effect' becomes a PERHAPS 'cause and effect' at very best, and the longer the symptom randomly appears, the longer the list of 'perhaps' causes grows. They can quickly include coincidences that range from the 'sublime to the ridiculous'. "Been there, got the 'T' Shirt", believe me I know.

I learned to dread earlier DV1 updates, because quite often they had introduced new problems. One update introduced an unrelated 'intermittent' where the IF Bandwidth would suddenly change to '200' in FM., and that could have serious effects during a SCAN or SEARCH operation. After a lot of Detective work I finally realised the only thing I could do was introduce checks to identify when the Bandwidth suddenly changed for no reason, make sure the last correct value had been stored, and force the DV1 back to the correct value with my software. I did manage to tie down this Gremlin to be a specific Firmware specific, but that was more due to the fact I found a way around it.

It became obvious that for a time, AOR would introduce something new, but not thoroughly check every other Function to ensure there had been no hidden Gremlins introduced. After 3 years of working with the DV1 producing and refining eSPYonARD I knew that one ignored Sod's Law at one's peril. Even small changes to the Program in one part could cause totally unexpected issues with coding that apparently should not be involved at all. The same applied to their early updates, but had not been looked for.

To be fair, the last few AOR updates, have been OK. New things, but no unexpected nasty side effects. I do have a gripe in that AOR never issue a full list of the changes they make, just a short precis of those they want to mention.

In reality, the intermittent problems described could quite easily have been present in any versions of firmware. That is the nature of intermittent faults. One CANNOT draw ANY correct conclusions about them until the REAL one has been found and dealt with. Actually that is not quite true, you CAN draw as many conclusions as you wish, but they are highly unlikely to be correct, except by pure 'chance'. N9EWO's conclusion they were specifically 1812A related is too 'subjective' for me. Yes he discovered them no doubt. Yes they may have been repeated. Yes they MAY be 1812A specific. Are they conclusively linked to 1812A? No, just because they are intermittent, and it would involve months of trying with all firmware options to even come close to hopefully tying any of them down to just one.

I have not noticed any of the intermittent problems the Reviewer mentioned with the latest Firmware.

There are still some Firmware issues that have been around for a long time, but none that are critical, and indeed most people would never notice them.

In my opinion operationally 1812A is fine, and I spend more time critically examining and working with the DV1 than most.