USFS Channels in South Calif ????

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zerg901

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Would this list be accurate?

Angeles National Forest (NF) - 172.375 R (repeater output channel) - " Forest Net " - emergency ops - primary dispatch and response channel for fires and emergencies

Angeles NF - 164.9375 R - " Administrative (Admin) Net " - non emergency ops

Angeles NF - 168.20 M (mobiles & portables only) - fire scene

San Bernardino NF - 171.475 R - Forest net - emerg ops / primary dispatch and response

San Bernardino NF - 172.225 R - Admin Net - non emerg ops

San Bernardino NF - 168.20 M - fire scene

San Bernardino NF - 164.125 R - Service net - ??? use

Cleveland NF - 168.75 R - Forest Net - emergency ops / primary dispatch and response

Cleveland NF - 168.15 R - Admin Net - non emergency ops

Cleveland NF - 168.20 M - fire scene

Cleveland NF - 164.125 R - Service Net - usage ???

Sequoia NF - 168.175 R - Admin Net - usage ?

Sequoia NF - 168.775 R - Fire Net - usage ?

Sequoia NF - 168.675 R - Emergency Net - usage ?

Los Padres NF - 170.55 R - " Forest Net " - emergency ops / primary dispatch and response

Los Padres NF - 171.55 R - " Service Net " - non emergency ops + overflow from Forest Net

Los Padres NF - 170.475 M - " Tac 3 " - ?? firescene ops

Los Padres NF - 172.35 M - " Tac 4 " - ?? fire scene ops

Los Padres NF - 168.20 M - fire scene ops

Los Padres NF - 154.265 M - fire scene ops (per an online document)

Does anyone know if any of the Region 5 Tac channels are assigned for everyday usage? 166.55 - 167.1125 - 168.2375 - ????

Anyone hear 172.275 in use as a Region 5 air to air freq? (per RR Database)

Is the Region 5 Dispatchers Net still in use at all? Was it 164.9625 ? and maybe 166.5625 ?
 

f40ph

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For what it's worth, if NIFC T-2 168.200 is already in use for a working fire tactical, they usually go for NIFC T-1 (168.050), then after that, NIFC T-3 (168.600).

I've only seen the R-5 tacs in use on extended incidents where they transition to a formal Comm Plan, Incident Mgmt Team, and start using the NIFC Command repeaters.

At that point, it seems they try to free up the Initial Attack Forest Net and tac channels for new fires.
 

zerg901

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f40ph - thanks for the info - that is useful. Seems to be the same procedure that is used for the AM air to air freqs. It might be a compromise between using all freqs for initial attack, reserving some freqs for extended attack, and requiring channel changes during burning periods.

Further info on Sequoia NF - Service Net 171.50 R - usage? - Admin Net - 168.175 - usage ? - possibly there are 14 repeaters in use - except on the Admin Net and Service Net channels.
 

SCPD

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It used to be that the only tactical frequency the Forest Service had was NIFC Tac 2, 168.200. We used it for fires, non-emergency incidents and for all the other functional areas (timber, range, wildlife and recreation). That is why it was called "crew net." There weren't any other NIFC frequencies as Air Guard was the air to ground when I started in 1974. That has all changed and the NIFC tacticals and R5 tacticals are assigned specific to incidents and require permission before they are used. A direct answer to one of your questions is no, the R5 tacticals are not assigned for daily and non-emergency use.

This has caused the allocation of "work" or "project" channels. Some of these are specific to a National Forest with reuse separated by distance around one region. R5, which has a lot of National Forests adjacent to each other, only has one. This is curious as R5 has more than 25% of the recreation use and fire workload of the entire agency, this as one region of nine. I'm not sure if the percentage is the same or higher for law enforcement, but with such a high level of recreation use and fire workload it is probably a good guess that it is. Many NFs have one LEO for the entire forest. R5 has at least one per ranger district. As far as I know, R5 is the only place where there is a separate law enforcement net on some of the forests.

The designation of NIFC Tac 2 as "crew net" was officially dropped ten or more years ago. Most NF's radios have NIFC Tacs 1-3 in the primary group of the radio and some have the three R5 tacs instead or have both. All of the NFs have their original forest net, a second net sometimes called "admin net" and sometimes called "emergency net." Not all NFs use them the same way. Some still have all of their normal radio traffic on the forest net and use the second net when fires and other emergencies require that command traffic be on its own net. Some have fire and law enforcement on forest net and all other functions on admin. Some have all the admin on forest net and fire/law enforcement on the second net. All NF's also have a service net. Its main use is for dispatch to the incident command of major incidents where there is no cell phone service. Since southern California has very good cell service the San Bernardino, Angeles and Cleveland NFs share one.

I don't recall if the San Bernardino NF segregates fire and law enforcement from their admin functions as far as frequency use is concerned. The Sierra NF is just west of me and I can hear one of their repeater locations and they have fire/LE on their second net, which they call their emergency net and the admin folks are on the forest net. The Mendocino uses their service net on a daily basis for their "engineering" personnel. Engineering includes all the facility maintenance folks including road maintenance, as well as the actual engineers.

The exception to all of this is the Los Padres. They have their forest net and service net, but instead of establishing a second admin net they used the two frequencies allocated for their own unique pair of tactical frequencies. It is probably due to the unavailability of tactical frequencies back when, but now with so many options for tactical traffic frequency use I'm not sure why they keep their own unique tacticals. It is a highly unusual situation for the agency. They are, in effect, using the service net as their second net or admin net. They don't have admin and fire/law enforcement traffic segregated to their own channel, at least they haven't the last time I monitored them.

The Sequoia is an interesting situation. I think they have more law enforcement net repeaters there than any other NF. Their admin net doesn't have any repeaters, just remote bases. As someone who worked in recreation all of my career except for my first four years that were in fire management, I can say that repeaters are as necessary for the other functions as they are for fire. I don't know what they use their emergency net for, since they already have one net designated for fire. The Sequoia can be a bit different than other forests at times, in more areas than just radio use.

I know you didn't ask about the Inyo National Forest, but here is the situation. The Inyo is probably the longest forest in the lower 48, at over 200 miles, all of it east of the Pacific Crest, which is also the crest of the Sierra Nevada. It used its second pair allocation to split the north from southern portion of the forest. Ideally having a second net for each portion of the forest would be a great idea so that during heavy fire or other incident activity forest net could remain for daily activity. There is some additional flexibility however, the BLM has a unique frequency allocation for their own net. All of their functions use the two forest nets and their net is only used as radio traffic dictates, usually when fire activity increases or as use as a command on larger incidents that require only a Type III incident command team.

I think this addresses all of your questions except one. The use of 154.265, formally "White 2" and currently "V Fire 22" is to interface with local fire jurisdictions and when CDF uses it as a tactical on a major state wildland fire. The newer "cajillion" channel radios have many or most of the state and federal mutual aid frequencies in them, so 154.265 is probably in the program for most USFS radios in California if not the rest of the country.

A couple more. 172.275 is not used as a regional air to air, at least it is not mentioned in the official information I have access to courtesy of some former co-workers still on the job.

The northern California "zone net" has been dismantled for 10-15 years now, maybe more. The frequencies you list, to my best recollection, were used for the southern California "zone net." I'm not sure if this net still exists or if it has been switched to microwave or some type of "VOiP" assignment. The four southern California forests (Los Padres, Angeles, San Bernardino and Cleveland) interact with each other more than any others I can think of due to their proximity and high fire, recreation and law enforcement workloads. The dispatchers depend on a "intercom" system of some sort, common computer resource allocation programs have not replaced the need for voice. They need it in a way a call on the phone won't meet. The San Berdo, Angeles and Los Padres all have automatic CAD responses that involve each others resources for "first alarms" (the Forest Service does not use this term). The Cleveland may have this or not, at least for ground resources. They are a bit further away and down in a slightly different situation, especially when it comes to illegal immigration.

I think this now answers all your questions.
 

jlanfn

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I don't recall if the San Bernardino NF segregates fire and law enforcement from their admin functions as far as frequency use is concerned.

It used to be that Fire and LE were on Forest Net. Sometime in the past year LE moved to Admin Net.

On Forest Net I normally only hear Fire and "patrol" units (I'm not sure if those are Fire), and on Admin I normally only hear LE and some off highway patrol along with a very occasional Rec unit.
 

SCPD

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It used to be that Fire and LE were on Forest Net. Sometime in the past year LE moved to Admin Net.

On Forest Net I normally only hear Fire and "patrol" units (I'm not sure if those are Fire), and on Admin I normally only hear LE and some off highway patrol along with a very occasional Rec unit.

I sounds to me as if fire is on forest net and all other functions are on admin net. Patrol units are fire prevention technicians (FPT) driving Type VII engines. The standard setup is a 1 ton truck with a utility box and a slip on pump and tank unit, with one FPT driving. The Type VII is a national designator that FIRESCOPE does not follow yet. You will see the patrol units show up on the CADS (WildCAD) as Type IV. FIRESCOPE is going to begin following the national typing sometime soon. You may also hear "prevention," which is an FPT driving a regular pickup without a slide on pump unit, it is a dry unit.

In reality the FPT does more than fire prevention as each patrol is assigned a patrol unit, an area of land the FPT covers. Within that unit the FPT enforces all resource regulations, provides information to the public and performs work such as sign maintenance, special use permit inspections and work for other functions such as recreation, wildlife, range management and timber management depending on the time of year and severity of the fire season.

Thanks for letting me know which functions use each net. I will make a note of it in my travel book.
 

zerg901

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Thanks for all the replys. I had seen various "Comm Plans" posted for various LA County FD incidents. So I tried to draw up possible "Comm Plans" for other areas in Southern California. I quickly realized I had more questions than answers.

I suppose that USFS fire radio usage in south CA could be summarized as : 2 repeater channels per Forest for normal ops - 168.20, then 168.025, then 168.60 for tac channels - 164.125 for IC to dispatcher on major incidents where cellphones dont work - 1 project channel - 2 A/G channels - couple of air to air channels on FM - couple of air to air channels on AM - and a bunch of spare channels for the extended attack (after the first day) on larger incidents
 
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SCPD

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Thanks for all the replys. I had seen various "Comm Plans" posted for various LA County FD incidents. So I tried to draw up possible "Comm Plans" for other areas in Southern California. I quickly realized I had more questions than answers.

I suppose that USFS fire radio usage in south CA could be summarized as : 2 repeater channels per Forest for normal ops - 168.20, then 168.025, then 168.60 for tac channels - 164.125 for IC to dispatcher on major incidents where cellphones dont work - 1 project channel - 2 A/G channels - couple of air to air channels on FM - couple of air to air channels on AM - and a bunch of spare channels for the extended attack (after the first day) on larger incidents


168.025 is a law enforcement frequency and listed at national tactical for the Forest Service. However, in California it is used as the input for 166.125 LE repeaters. I believe you meant NIFC Tac 1 is 168.0500. The other 2 are correct.

The project channel is the only tactical that can be used without a case by case authorization. I've listened to units doing smoke checks (reports that don't have full dispatches until the existence of a fire has been confirmed). The authorization for the NIFC tacs is given by the dispatcher when the incident is dispatched. I believe each Forest Dispatch has an automatic authorization for a certain tac. The use of NIFC frequencies is ultimately is authorized by the duty officer at the National Interagency Incident Communications Division. I believe the GACCs have been delegated some of that authority, but I don't know what frequencies are part of that. In the L.A. basin it would seem as though use of the delegated tacs would have to coordinated as a tac being used on the Angeles could easily interfere with its use on the Cleveland (Trabuco and Palomar Ranger Districts). I've been on fires in the San Gabriels at night and looking toward fires in the Santa Anas (Trabuco Ranger District) and it looked they looked very close, easily within range of a 5 watt handheld. It would take a lot of careful monitoring to figure all this out, listening to the dispatches of all 4 southern California National Forests. I've not had the opportunity to do this as I've been too busy during my visits there.
 

scottyhetzel

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It used to be that the only tactical frequency the Forest Service had was NIFC Tac 2, 168.200. We used it for fires, non-emergency incidents and for all the other functional areas (timber, range, wildlife and recreation). That is why it was called "crew net." There weren't any other NIFC frequencies as Air Guard was the air to ground when I started in 1974. That has all changed and the NIFC tacticals and R5 tacticals are assigned specific to incidents and require permission before they are used. A direct answer to one of your questions is no, the R5 tacticals are not assigned for daily and non-emergency use.

This has caused the allocation of "work" or "project" channels. Some of these are specific to a National Forest with reuse separated by distance around one region. R5, which has a lot of National Forests adjacent to each other, only has one. This is curious as R5 has more than 25% of the recreation use and fire workload of the entire agency, this as one region of nine. I'm not sure if the percentage is the same or higher for law enforcement, but with such a high level of recreation use and fire workload it is probably a good guess that it is. Many NFs have one LEO for the entire forest. R5 has at least one per ranger district. As far as I know, R5 is the only place where there is a separate law enforcement net on some of the forests.

The designation of NIFC Tac 2 as "crew net" was officially dropped ten or more years ago. Most NF's radios have NIFC Tacs 1-3 in the primary group of the radio and some have the three R5 tacs instead or have both. All of the NFs have their original forest net, a second net sometimes called "admin net" and sometimes called "emergency net." Not all NFs use them the same way. Some still have all of their normal radio traffic on the forest net and use the second net when fires and other emergencies require that command traffic be on its own net. Some have fire and law enforcement on forest net and all other functions on admin. Some have all the admin on forest net and fire/law enforcement on the second net. All NF's also have a service net. Its main use is for dispatch to the incident command of major incidents where there is no cell phone service. Since southern California has very good cell service the San Bernardino, Angeles and Cleveland NFs share one.

I don't recall if the San Bernardino NF segregates fire and law enforcement from their admin functions as far as frequency use is concerned. The Sierra NF is just west of me and I can hear one of their repeater locations and they have fire/LE on their second net, which they call their emergency net and the admin folks are on the forest net. The Mendocino uses their service net on a daily basis for their "engineering" personnel. Engineering includes all the facility maintenance folks including road maintenance, as well as the actual engineers.

The exception to all of this is the Los Padres. They have their forest net and service net, but instead of establishing a second admin net they used the two frequencies allocated for their own unique pair of tactical frequencies. It is probably due to the unavailability of tactical frequencies back when, but now with so many options for tactical traffic frequency use I'm not sure why they keep their own unique tacticals. It is a highly unusual situation for the agency. They are, in effect, using the service net as their second net or admin net. They don't have admin and fire/law enforcement traffic segregated to their own channel, at least they haven't the last time I monitored them.

The Sequoia is an interesting situation. I think they have more law enforcement net repeaters there than any other NF. Their admin net doesn't have any repeaters, just remote bases. As someone who worked in recreation all of my career except for my first four years that were in fire management, I can say that repeaters are as necessary for the other functions as they are for fire. I don't know what they use their emergency net for, since they already have one net designated for fire. The Sequoia can be a bit different than other forests at times, in more areas than just radio use.

I know you didn't ask about the Inyo National Forest, but here is the situation. The Inyo is probably the longest forest in the lower 48, at over 200 miles, all of it east of the Pacific Crest, which is also the crest of the Sierra Nevada. It used its second pair allocation to split the north from southern portion of the forest. Ideally having a second net for each portion of the forest would be a great idea so that during heavy fire or other incident activity forest net could remain for daily activity. There is some additional flexibility however, the BLM has a unique frequency allocation for their own net. All of their functions use the two forest nets and their net is only used as radio traffic dictates, usually when fire activity increases or as use as a command on larger incidents that require only a Type III incident command team.

I think this addresses all of your questions except one. The use of 154.265, formally "White 2" and currently "V Fire 22" is to interface with local fire jurisdictions and when CDF uses it as a tactical on a major state wildland fire. The newer "cajillion" channel radios have many or most of the state and federal mutual aid frequencies in them, so 154.265 is probably in the program for most USFS radios in California if not the rest of the country.

A couple more. 172.275 is not used as a regional air to air, at least it is not mentioned in the official information I have access to courtesy of some former co-workers still on the job.

The northern California "zone net" has been dismantled for 10-15 years now, maybe more. The frequencies you list, to my best recollection, were used for the southern California "zone net." I'm not sure if this net still exists or if it has been switched to microwave or some type of "VOiP" assignment. The four southern California forests (Los Padres, Angeles, San Bernardino and Cleveland) interact with each other more than any others I can think of due to their proximity and high fire, recreation and law enforcement workloads. The dispatchers depend on a "intercom" system of some sort, common computer resource allocation programs have not replaced the need for voice. They need it in a way a call on the phone won't meet. The San Berdo, Angeles and Los Padres all have automatic CAD responses that involve each others resources for "first alarms" (the Forest Service does not use this term). The Cleveland may have this or not, at least for ground resources. They are a bit further away and down in a slightly different situation, especially when it comes to illegal immigration.

I think this now answers all your questions.[/QUOT

Hi Smokey .....So what is the San Berdino (BDF) forest law enforcement ch. name/frequency / pl ? 103.5 ? I read the San berdino co. Fire radio comm. guide and I must have missed this channel. Also a topper would be the unit I.D.'s. Thx in-advance
 

SCPD

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Hi Smokey .....So what is the San Berdino (BDF) forest law enforcement ch. name/frequency / pl ? 103.5 ? I read the San berdino co. Fire radio comm. guide and I must have missed this channel. Also a topper would be the unit I.D.'s. Thx in-advance

I'm not aware of any separate law enforcement frequency being used on the San Bernardino. The use of 166.125 out/168.025 in exists on the Cleveland, Sequoia and Eldorado NFs. The Sierra might be another one on a limited basis. This seems to be a region wide assignment. If the San Bernardino is using a separate law enforcement frequency it would likely be this pair.

The San Bernardino is forest #12 in R5. The law enforcement units would be 12 Edward xx, or 12 Robert xx, I've forgotten which. R5 has a standard law enforcement unit designator system where the basic patrol officer is an "Edward" unit, patrol captains are "Lincoln" units, patrol commanders are "Charlie" units, and special agents are "Adam" units. Special agents used to be "David" units and I don't think this is the case now, but I might be wrong. Anyway, the prefix for all units is the forest number. The Angeles is #1, Cleveland #2, Eldorado #3, Inyo #4, Klamath #5, Lassen #6, Los Padres #7, Mendocino #8, Modoc #9, Six Rivers #10, Plumas #11, San Bernardino #12, Sequoia #13, Shasta Trinity #!4, Sierra #15, Stanislaus #16, Tahoe #17 and Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit #19.

The special agents and patrol commanders might be supervising more than one forest and their prefix may not be that of the forest where their office is located. There is some type of a grouping of forests that each have a number, so the exception to forest numbers might be for A and C units only. I didn't have this completely figured out when I retired and I no longer have access to that information.

The rest of the designators follow the regional plan with engine, water tender, patrol, prevention, dozer, dozer tender, helitack, crew, chief, division, battalion, fuels, recreation, trails, wilderness, lands, range, watershed, wildlife, timber, fisheries and volunteer being part of the unit designator. The San Bernardino had 5 districts for many years and like the Angeles 2 were combined into others and then consolidated to 3. The 3 are Mountain Top #1, Frontcountry #3 and San Jacinto #5. Prefixes for all the designators I've listed will be one of these numbers unless they work out of the Forest Supervisor's Office.
 

Mike_G_D

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Exsmokey,

Are you sure about the Law Net split input vs. output usage? I hear the repeater OUTPUT on 168.025 with mixed analog and P25 - not on 166.125MHz. This would be for Cleveland NF.

-Mike
 

scottyhetzel

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I'm not aware of any separate law enforcement frequency being used on the San Bernardino. The use of 166.125 out/168.025 in exists on the Cleveland, Sequoia and Eldorado NFs. The Sierra might be another one on a limited basis. This seems to be a region wide assignment. If the San Bernardino is using a separate law enforcement frequency it would likely be this pair.

The San Bernardino is forest #12 in R5. The law enforcement units would be 12 Edward xx, or 12 Robert xx, I've forgotten which. R5 has a standard law enforcement unit designator system where the basic patrol officer is an "Edward" unit, patrol captains are "Lincoln" units, patrol commanders are "Charlie" units, and special agents are "Adam" units. Special agents used to be "David" units and I don't think this is the case now, but I might be wrong. Anyway, the prefix for all units is the forest number. The Angeles is #1, Cleveland #2, Eldorado #3, Inyo #4, Klamath #5, Lassen #6, Los Padres #7, Mendocino #8, Modoc #9, Six Rivers #10, Plumas #11, San Bernardino #12, Sequoia #13, Shasta Trinity #!4, Sierra #15, Stanislaus #16, Tahoe #17 and Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit #19.

The special agents and patrol commanders might be supervising more than one forest and their prefix may not be that of the forest where their office is located. There is some type of a grouping of forests that each have a number, so the exception to forest numbers might be for A and C units only. I didn't have this completely figured out when I retired and I no longer have access to that information.

The rest of the designators follow the regional plan with engine, water tender, patrol, prevention, dozer, dozer tender, helitack, crew, chief, division, battalion, fuels, recreation, trails, wilderness, lands, range, watershed, wildlife, timber, fisheries and volunteer being part of the unit designator. The San Bernardino had 5 districts for many years and like the Angeles 2 were combined into others and then consolidated to 3. The 3 are Mountain Top #1, Frontcountry #3 and San Jacinto #5. Prefixes for all the designators I've listed will be one of these numbers unless they work out of the Forest Supervisor's Office.

Thanks a million ExSmokey !, I always appreciate your detailed info...I been spending time at Hemet lake fishing with the scanner and wanted to really find out what is going on. Also there is a antenna tower right next to the lake and it looks like VHF but not 100% sure. I dont see any listings of it, however there is a link microwave pointed at the Toro peak / Santa Rosa Peak...any ideas ?

What is a dozer tender ?
What is a watershed ?
 

SCPD

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Exsmokey,

Are you sure about the Law Net split input vs. output usage? I hear the repeater OUTPUT on 168.025 with mixed analog and P25 - not on 166.125MHz. This would be for Cleveland NF.

-Mike

On the Sequoia and Sierra 166.125 is the output. I'm not surprised if it gets used reverse of that in southern California. I think 166.125 is also the output on the Eldorado as well. It was analog the last time I monitored it on the Sequoia.

Before I purchased my first digital capable scanner I heard a Forest Service unit testing on 166.125 close by. I live 0.25 miles line of sight from the ranger station here in town. They were alternating between digital and analog for a few minutes. We don't have any digital in both eastern Sierra counties. After hearing it transmitted locally I ordered one the next day. Funny thing is I haven't heard anymore digital since that day. Go figure.
 

SCPD

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Thanks a million ExSmokey !, I always appreciate your detailed info...I been spending time at Hemet lake fishing with the scanner and wanted to really find out what is going on. Also there is a antenna tower right next to the lake and it looks like VHF but not 100% sure. I dont see any listings of it, however there is a link microwave pointed at the Toro peak / Santa Rosa Peak...any ideas ?

What is a dozer tender ?
What is a watershed ?

I don't think there is a Forest Service electronic site at Lake Hemet. I think it is at Pine Cove, above the town of Idlywild. However, I'm not sure that site is capable of receiving a good signal from Toro. The San Jacinto Ranger District has repeaters at Pine Cove, Tahquitz and Toro. If Toro is problematic for Pine Cove, Lake Hemet is in a location where it could receive all three. The San Jacinto District, which looks pretty gentle in the Lake Hemet area has some incredibly steep places. The Palm Springs tram crosses over the district before ending on state park land. There was a rather persistent fire on that side some years ago and hotshot crews had to rope up to control it. There was great TV news coverage of it.

Anyway, Toro and Santa Rosa, especially Toro has a ton of users on it, being the coverage from it is outstanding. It would not surprise me if the state or a phone company have a microwave link to it. I don't think that a microwave link from Toro is needed. If Pine Cove can pick it up then it would be routed on a microwave link back to Strawberry or Keller, whichever is the hub site for the forest.

I did forget one radio designator and that is "ranger." In the U.S. Forest Service that designator is reserved for the District Ranger only. There are others that have the word "ranger" in their titles, those being wilderness rangers and OHV (off highway vehicle) rangers. All other employees have different titles other than ranger. If someone called us ranger, we didn't get into the long discussion of titles, we just answered to it and helped them.

A dozer tender is a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with a utility bed/box. It usually has a 75-100 gallon diesel tank and in the utility boxes there are tools necessary for maintaining the dozer in the field. The dozer operator drives the dozer transport (designator: transport with the same number as the dozer) and the "swamper" drives the dozer tender. The swamper helps with the operation of the dozer including repairs, lube jobs (tracks need a lot of lubing) and walking ahead of the dozer to watch for problems such as large boulders hidden in brush, buried utility lines and other hazards and considerations for building line. I've been on two swamper assigments on fires and didn't like it. The noise, even with earplugs, the dust and the constant smell of diesel were too much for me.

Another designator I left out is "helitender." It is always owned by the same private contractor that provides the helicopter. It has the same number as the helicopter, which on the Inyo is "Helicopter 525" so Helitender 525 and Helitack 525 follow it around. The latter unit is always a Forest Service, BLM or National Park Service unit and contains all the equipment necessary for the Helitack crew to manage the helicopter or heliports on fires. The radio setup in helitack trucks is interesting given they have Victor frequency radios and sometimes UHF radios for local agencies. The helicopters almost have conventional coverage on every band, as well as HF in some helos used near the coast.

A watershed is the land that a creek, stream or river drains. The designator of "watershed" may be that of a hydrologist or soil scientist (dirtologist as I used to call them) or a watershed crew. These people help maintain watersheds. Drainage structures on roads need construction, reconstruction and maintenance which is usually delegated to the road maintenance crews (the "boys"). Watershed crews often work in sensitive watersheds such as meadows and riparian areas (surface and subsurface influence of a watercourse along its banks) repairing damage from timber harvest, grazing, improper trail location and off highway vehicles, this last one being one of the most damaging and pervasive activities in many locations on public lands. The crews build structures to slow the flow of surface water in damaged areas. They often build rock gabions (rocks encased in large wire mesh) across gullies that have enlarged in size due to one of the damaging activities mentioned above. The hydrologists and soil scientists often inspect road construction and plans for other facility construction and reconstruction to ensure that watershed health is considered. They also inspect the maintenance of all facilities such as roads; campgrounds and other developed recreation sites; and trails to ensure proper drainage structure and their maintenance is being done correctly. Fisheries (gillologists) and wildlife (critterologists) biologists work very closely with the watershed folks.The designation of National Forests in the late 1800's and early 1900's was often due to watershed concerns as such a designation was often the only method to protect watersheds.

Timber harvest levels prior to 1993, primarily due to road construction, caused more watershed damage and water quality issues than any other use. Grazing impacts have been a problem in existence for over a hundred years. Many areas should not be grazed at all and substantial reductions in permitted animals is needed in other areas. However, the biggest threat to watersheds, in fact, to the entire National Forest system, is now the uncontrolled use of motorized off highway vehicles. Politically these activities are highly charged and those participating in the discussion are ignorant of the effects of these uses on watersheds.

Recreation is a huge business on the Inyo National Forest. It has the most developed recreation site use in the entire National Forest system, the most vexing challenges in wilderness management and the highest campground occupancy rates for any National Forest. The Mammoth Ranger District had about 50% of the recreation use of the forest and that is where I was assigned. I was a field supervisor (forester) in frontcountry (non-wilderness lands) recreation management. I knew my place in the pecking order and always told the hydrologists and soil scientists that their jobs were far more important than mine.

The soil resource of any land trumps all other uses. Recreation, grazing, timber harvest, water diversion and storage and wildlife resources are all subordinate to soil. If you don't have healthy watersheds none of the other uses can occur. The existence of healthy meadows have effects for up to hundreds of miles downstream.

Case in point, the Los Angeles Department estimates that the existence of and the management of the Inyo National Forest prevents the need to build a 4 billion dollar water filtration plant (capital cost) and the several hundred dollar annual operation and maintenance cost that would result. 70% of the water provided by the LADWP originates on the Inyo National Forest from Lee Vining Creek in the north to Cottonwood Creek in the south. This water also generates a lot of power as it flows from the high country to the valleys and south along the aqueduct. The watersheds on the Kern Plateau are critical for the survival of the only native golden trout population in the world. For the public, watershed management is largely unknown and not understood.

Fishing and scanning are great activities to put together, aren't they? I take a ham radio and scanner cross country skiing, hiking and backpacking, road cycling and peak bagging (hiking/climbing mountains). The day I bagged White Mountain Peak (14,252') I keyed up a repeater on Mt. Charleston northwest of Las Vegas. I picked up the LASO and the San Bernardino, Los Padres and Angeles National Forests from the top of Mt. Whitney.
 
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scottyhetzel

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I don't think there is a Forest Service electronic site at Lake Hemet. I think it is at Pine Cove, above the town of Idlywild. However, I'm not sure that site is capable of receiving a good signal from Toro. The San Jacinto Ranger District has repeaters at Pine Cove, Tahquitz and Toro. If Toro is problematic for Pine Cove, Lake Hemet is in a location where it could receive all three. The San Jacinto District, which looks pretty gentle in the Lake Hemet area has some incredibly steep places. The Palm Springs tram crosses over the district before ending on state park land. There was a rather persistent fire on that side some years ago and hotshot crews had to rope up to control it. There was great TV news coverage of it.

Anyway, Toro and Santa Rosa, especially Toro has a ton of users on it, being the coverage from it is outstanding. It would not surprise me if the state or a phone company have a microwave link to it. I don't think that a microwave link from Toro is needed. If Pine Cove can pick it up then it would be routed on a microwave link back to Strawberry or Keller, whichever is the hub site for the forest.

Verizon has a cell tower on toro/ sta. rosa but the antenna array on lake hemet looks VHF.. Do you happen to know where the UHF support 8, yes UHF I monitor-Ed a few weeks ago.

I did forget one radio designator and that is "ranger." In the U.S. Forest Service that designator is reserved for the District Ranger only. There are others that have the word "ranger" in their titles, those being wilderness rangers and OHV (off highway vehicle) rangers. All other employees have different titles other than ranger. If someone called us ranger, we didn't get into the long discussion of titles, we just answered to it and helped them.

A dozer tender is a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with a utility bed/box. It usually has a 75-100 gallon diesel tank and in the utility boxes there are tools necessary for maintaining the dozer in the field. The dozer operator drives the dozer transport (designator: transport with the same number as the dozer) and the "swamper" drives the dozer tender. The swamper helps with the operation of the dozer including repairs, lube jobs (tracks need a lot of lubing) and walking ahead of the dozer to watch for problems such as large boulders hidden in brush, buried utility lines and other hazards and considerations for building line. I've been on two swamper assigments on fires and didn't like it. The noise, even with earplugs, the dust and the constant smell of diesel were too much for me.

Great info..

Another designator I left out is "helitender." It is always owned by the same private contractor that provides the helicopter. It has the same number as the helicopter, which on the Inyo is "Helicopter 525" so Helitender 525 and Helitack 525 follow it around. The latter unit is always a Forest Service, BLM or National Park Service unit and contains all the equipment necessary for the Helitack crew to manage the helicopter or heliports on fires. The radio setup in helitack trucks is interesting given they have Victor frequency radios and sometimes UHF radios for local agencies. The helicopters almost have conventional coverage on every band, as well as HF in some helos used near the coast.

A watershed is the land that a creek, stream or river drains. The designator of "watershed" may be that of a hydrologist or soil scientist (dirtologist as I used to call them) or a watershed crew. These people help maintain watersheds. Drainage structures on roads need construction, reconstruction and maintenance which is usually delegated to the road maintenance crews (the "boys"). Watershed crews often work in sensitive watersheds such as meadows and riparian areas (surface and subsurface influence of a watercourse along its banks) repairing damage from timber harvest, grazing, improper trail location and off highway vehicles, this last one being one of the most damaging and pervasive activities in many locations on public lands. The crews build structures to slow the flow of surface water in damaged areas. They often build rock gabions (rocks encased in large wire mesh) across gullies that have enlarged in size due to one of the damaging activities mentioned above. The hydrologists and soil scientists often inspect road construction and plans for other facility construction and reconstruction to ensure that watershed health is considered. They also inspect the maintenance of all facilities such as roads; campgrounds and other developed recreation sites; and trails to ensure proper drainage structure and their maintenance is being done correctly. Fisheries (gillologists) and wildlife (critterologists) biologists work very closely with the watershed folks.The designation of National Forests in the late 1800's and early 1900's was often due to watershed concerns as such a designation was often the only method to protect watersheds.

Thanks for sharing... People have no clue how the forest affects us....

Timber harvest levels prior to 1993, primarily due to road construction, caused more watershed damage and water quality issues than any other use. Grazing impacts have been a problem in existence for over a hundred years. Many areas should not be grazed at all and substantial reductions in permitted animals is needed in other areas. However, the biggest threat to watersheds, in fact, to the entire National Forest system, is now the uncontrolled use of motorized off highway vehicles. Politically these activities are highly charged and those participating in the discussion are ignorant of the effects of these uses on watersheds.

Recreation is a huge business on the Inyo National Forest. It has the most developed recreation site use in the entire National Forest system, the most vexing challenges in wilderness management and the highest campground occupancy rates for any National Forest. The Mammoth Ranger District had about 50% of the recreation use of the forest and that is where I was assigned. I was a field supervisor (forester) in frontcountry (non-wilderness lands) recreation management. I knew my place in the pecking order and always told the hydrologists and soil scientists that their jobs were far more important than mine.

The soil resource of any land trumps all other uses. Recreation, grazing, timber harvest, water diversion and storage and wildlife resources are all subordinate to soil. If you don't have healthy watersheds none of the other uses can occur. The existence of healthy meadows have effects for up to hundreds of miles downstream.

Case in point, the Los Angeles Department estimates that the existence of and the management of the Inyo National Forest prevents the need to build a 4 billion dollar water filtration plant (capital cost) and the several hundred dollar annual operation and maintenance cost that would result. 70% of the water provided by the LADWP originates on the Inyo National Forest from Lee Vining Creek in the north to Cottonwood Creek in the south. This water also generates a lot of power as it flows from the high country to the valleys and south along the aqueduct. The watersheds on the Kern Plateau are critical for the survival of the only native golden trout population in the world. For the public, watershed management is largely unknown and not understood.

Fishing and scanning are great activities to put together, aren't they? I take a ham radio and scanner cross country skiing, hiking and backpacking, road cycling and peak bagging (hiking/climbing mountains). The day I bagged White Mountain Peak (14,252') I keyed up a repeater on Mt. Charleston northwest of Las Vegas. I picked up the LASO and the San Bernardino, Los Padres and Angeles National Forests from the top of Mt. Whitney.

I thought about adding a 1/2 wave VHF antenna to my scanner to get extra db,s..While fishing.... I like driving to vista point on hwy 74 to listen to traffic too.
That would be really fun to be up so high and pick up long distance stations..congrats for making it to white mountain. Peak. Can you explain why the mountains have UHF ?

Thanks again for the great info..,,,, I did PM you...no reply from you.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
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Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Take a look at this: A Look at the Federal Interagency Communications Center in San Bernardino | SCMA

I put the video on pause and advanced slowly so that I could get a still of the dispatcher's console. I was able to see that the San Bernardino NF has three microwave sites; Pine Cove, Keller and Quartzite. There was also a button for "FS Law Enforcement." It would be worth for someone to monitor 168.025 and 166.125 to see if there is any activity. The two nets for the San Bernardino NF should be monitored to listen for words such as "switch to LE net." This would confirm its use on that forest. I listen to this center a lot. This center takes the night calls for the Inyo National Forest.

There is a lot of discussion about consolidating dispatch centers and San Bernardino absorbing the Inyo would be logical. Absorbing the Angeles center is also a possibility. There has even been talk of consolidating north and south ops into one center and have one GACC (Geogaphic Area Coordination Center) for California. I picked up on some discussion to consolidate all the interagency dispatch centers in Arizona to one in Phoenix and the same for New Mexico to one in Albuquerque. In days of old, each Forest Service ranger district had a dispatcher. I worked on one of the last in the early 80's.
 
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scottyhetzel

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
1,424
Location
Palm Springs Area / OrCo
Take a look at this: A Look at the Federal Interagency Communications Center in San Bernardino | SCMA

I put the video on pause and advanced slowly so that I could get a still of the dispatcher's console. I was able to see that the San Bernardino NF has three microwave sites; Pine Cove, Keller and Quartzite. There was also a button for "FS Law Enforcement." It would be worth for someone to monitor 168.025 and 166.125 to see if there is any activity. The two nets for the San Bernardino NF should be monitored to listen for words such as "switch to LE net." This would confirm its use on that forest. I listen to this center a lot. This center takes the night calls for the Inyo National Forest.

There is a lot of discussion about consolidating dispatch centers and San Bernardino absorbing the Inyo would be logical. Absorbing the Angeles center is also a possibility. There has even been talk of consolidating north and south ops into one center and have one GACC (Geogaphic Area Coordination Center) for California. I picked up on some discussion to consolidate all the interagency dispatch centers in Arizona to one in Phoenix and the same for New Mexico to one in Albuquerque. In days of old, each Forest Service ranger district had a dispatcher. I worked on one of the last in the early 80's.

Where is Keller ? Quartzite ? I know where pine cove is..... Thanks. I will be monitoring the above freq. and close call to see what I find.
 

jlanfn

California Database Admin
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
366
Location
San Bernardino County
It would be worth for someone to monitor 168.025 and 166.125 to see if there is any activity. The two nets for the San Bernardino NF should be monitored to listen for words such as "switch to LE net." This would confirm its use on that forest.

I have had both these frequencies in my scanners for the quite some time and have never heard any traffic on them from my location in the eastern San Bernardino Valley. Either they don't use it during the times I most frequently monitor (after business hours and on weekends), or they only use low power direct mobile-to-mobile which my setup cannot pick up, or they don't use these frequencies at all on the San Bernardino.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
I have had both these frequencies in my scanners for the quite some time and have never heard any traffic on them from my location in the eastern San Bernardino Valley. Either they don't use it during the times I most frequently monitor (after business hours and on weekends), or they only use low power direct mobile-to-mobile which my setup cannot pick up, or they don't use these frequencies at all on the San Bernardino.

The dispatcher's screen showed a touch screen button for "FS Law Enforcement." That is all I can tell you. I wonder if there is a secret squirrel frequency in existence.
 
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