Using Personal Radio on Municipal System

[N4DES]

Radios that are authorized for usage on the VHF maritime channels need to be FCC type accepted under 47 CFR Part 80.

That's an interesting scenario right there, because the APX radios are type accepted under Part 15 Subpart B, as they are defined as digital devices. Thus, technically they're not formally approved (at least not by name) for usage under Part 80.

Actually the APX7000 is type accepted for Marine Part 80 and can be legally used. I'm pretty sure they did the same for the 8000 as well.
Motorola Solutions, . Portable 2-Way Radio 89FT4893 FCC ID AZ489FT4893

 

[brotherbosco]

As I mentioned in the original post, I was going in to the mobile communications unit the next day to find out if I could use my own handset. I was told that there's no chance they'll let me use my own. As for everyone asking why I'm not issued a radio, all I can say is that I'm with a large urban police department. We don't have enough radios for everyone. During large events, many officers are partnered with someone and there's only one radio between the two of them. It's fine when they're together, but it can be dangerous if you get separated, which can happen very easily. We had several riots last year, and there were many officers on the front line without radios. One of the first things you learn in the academy is that the most important item on your rig is your radio, and it's absolutely true. I wanted to buy my own so I'd always have one. But, that's not going to happen now. Thank you all for your advice.

 

[brotherbosco]

Why won’t your department issue you a radio?

During large events, we don't have enough to go around.

 

[alcahuete]

During large events, we don't have enough to go around.

Then they're just stupid. You have an officer willing to purchase his own radio, for officer safety, and they say no? Wow...

 

[jruta]

Then they're just stupid. You have an officer willing to purchase his own radio, for officer safety, and they say no? Wow...

And yet a department can claim “legal liabilities” as to why a personal radio can’t be used? Unbelievable.

 

[brotherbosco]

Then they're just stupid. You have an officer willing to purchase his own radio, for officer safety, and they say no? Wow...

That's bureaucracy for you. Nothing ever makes sense. They don't care about our safety. We're cannon fodder.

 

[dsmiley]

Fraught with Peril

 

[brotherbosco]

I'm allowed to carry my own sidearm, but not my own radio. Figure that one out.

 

[GlobalNorth]

If an agency is unwilling to spend money to buy every Deputy/Officer/Trooper an issued radio, it is time to resign and go elsewhere.

 

[brotherbosco]

If an agency is unwilling to spend money to buy every Deputy/Officer/Trooper an issued radio, it is time to resign and go elsewhere.

I'm done in 3 years. For the younger guys though, it's not that easy. Too many cops, not enough positions with good departments.

 

[GlobalNorth]

There are far too many positions open nationwide begging for qualified cops. Three years? If your retirement transfers elsewhere, 3 years is a long haul to work without proper safety gear and an issued portable radio is effectively safety gear, just as body armor and a sidearm is.

Leaving is as simple as walking in and saying you are done. I know... I've done it. Nearly everything else is an internal mechanism against change for the betterment of life. Unless you have a dependent who demands advanced healthcare or something similar, working for people who treat you like a 12 year old CVPI is enabling them to abuse the help.

 

[brotherbosco]

There are far too many positions open nationwide begging for qualified cops. Three years? If your retirement transfers elsewhere, 3 years is a long haul to work without proper safety gear and an issued portable radio is effectively safety gear, just as body armor and a sidearm is.

Leaving is as simple as walking in and saying you are done. I know... I've done it. Nearly everything else is an internal mechanism against change for the betterment of life. Unless you have a dependent who demands advanced healthcare or something similar, working for people who treat you like a 12 year old CVPI is enabling them to abuse the help.

My pension doesn't "transfer" anywhere. Leaving is also not that simple as picking up and skipping town to go compete for a handful of full-time jobs with 22 year olds who haven't been shot and don't have bad knees. I'm sure they'll be clamoring to hire someone who isn't going to be working there long either. Thanks for the unsolicited career advice though.

 

[brotherbosco]

I have to ask, if the 6k is what your dept. is carrying but you want something lighter (?) and there doesn’t seem to be a feasible alternative, I’m wondering why is it that you’ll “just deal with it” and drop 2k on the same radio they’re issuing?

Lol. Obviously it’s not my business to tell anyone what to do, or not to do with their money (I too am a radio enthusiast) i just had to ask.

Because we don't always have enough to go around.

 

[brotherbosco]

If the dept is already using APX6Ks.... why go to the expense of buying your own?

Because we don't always have enough to go around.

 

[MTS2000des]

I'm allowed to carry my own sidearm, but not my own radio. Figure that one out.

I'm guessing you can do so because you can qualify with your own sidearm at the range and demonstrate proficiency. Agency can attest and has documentation based on your range performance you are then "good to go".

The same isn't as doable with a personally owned radio, unless you have a service monitor, have vendor training, access to updated CPS, firmware, and MTNs, can certify it's tuned/aligned, programmed by an authorized person with proper codeplug/template, and especially in the case of used/secondhand/aftermarket radio, no issues exist due to all the backyard TEKNISHUNS with stolen depot software building junk radios from parts. Agency has no real way to vet said radio and the liability is on them if they allow it, something goes bad, it's now on the agency who allowed said radio on the system.

There is much more to a modern radio like an APX and much more than how an Astro 25/P25 trunked radio network operates that are beyond the scope of a hobbyist forum. A radio used by a hobbyist is no big deal if it doesn't work. I'm sure you'd concur with 22 years on the job that you ABSOLUTELY NEED YOUR PORTABLE TO WORK EVERY TIME the same way you need your firearm to fire when you need it. Those who oversee the radio system are responsible if they allow unknown stuff on their network, and they take it seriously. Take it from someone who does it for a living. We aren't trying to be a pain in the ass. We want you to live.

If there aren't enough radios for officers, this is a command staff problem.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Here's a suggestion: Clearly the department has budget issues or they'd have enough radios to issue to everybody on duty.

Make them an offer. You'll pay for the radio, the radio being a type that is listed in the current radio contract your department has with the communications provider. It is acquired by the department through the normal contract channels. In exchange they either reimburse you for it over time, or you get to keep it when you leave the force. And in either event it's permanently issued to you alone. The radio shop handles all maintenance involving it, same as any other radio. And, if you do want additional channels added to it, that SHOULD be accomodated.

There is logic to this. They are short on radios. They want to be sure any radios used are in conformance with system requirements and standardized to what they issue. They don't have the budget to provide enough. What you propose here solves their problem as much as it solves yours. The outcome is one more radio where it needs to be, one more officer operating with readily available reliable communications, and thus, improved officer safety.

 

[brotherbosco]

I'm guessing you can do so because you can qualify with your own sidearm at the range and demonstrate proficiency. Agency can attest and has documentation based on your range performance you are then "good to go".

The same isn't as doable with a personally owned radio, unless you have a service monitor, have vendor training, access to updated CPS, firmware, and MTNs, can certify it's tuned/aligned, programmed by an authorized person with proper codeplug/template, and especially in the case of used/secondhand/aftermarket radio, no issues exist due to all the backyard TEKNISHUNS with stolen depot software building junk radios from parts. Agency has no real way to vet said radio and the liability is on them if they allow it, something goes bad, it's now on the agency who allowed said radio on the system.

There is much more to a modern radio like an APX and much more than how an Astro 25/P25 trunked radio network operates that are beyond the scope of a hobbyist forum. A radio used by a hobbyist is no big deal if it doesn't work. I'm sure you'd concur with 22 years on the job that you ABSOLUTELY NEED YOUR PORTABLE TO WORK EVERY TIME the same way you need your firearm to fire when you need it. Those who oversee the radio system are responsible if they allow unknown stuff on their network, and they take it seriously. Take it from someone who does it for a living. We aren't trying to be a pain in the ass. We want you to live.

If there aren't enough radios for officers, this is a command staff problem.

I would be willing to buy the radio from a dealer of their choice. I was still told no. They are definitely trying to be a pain in the ass.

 

[brotherbosco]

Here's a suggestion: Clearly the department has budget issues or they'd have enough radios to issue to everybody on duty.

Make them an offer. You'll pay for the radio, the radio being a type that is listed in the current radio contract your department has with the communications provider. It is acquired by the department through the normal contract channels. In exchange they either reimburse you for it over time, or you get to keep it when you leave the force. And in either event it's permanently issued to you alone. The radio shop handles all maintenance involving it, same as any other radio. And, if you do want additional channels added to it, that SHOULD be accomodated.

There is logic to this. They are short on radios. They want to be sure any radios used are in conformance with system requirements and standardized to what they issue. They don't have the budget to provide enough. What you propose here solves their problem as much as it solves yours. The outcome is one more radio where it needs to be, one more officer operating with readily available reliable communications, and thus, improved officer safety.

I made that suggestion. I was given a final, agitated "NO".

 

[slicerwizard]

I made that suggestion. I was given a final, agitated "NO".

Because it makes them look bad. "To maintain an acceptable level of personal officer safety, this officer had to pay for his own radio..."

 

[KN4EHX]

I’m applying palm to forehead and wondering why as I read all of this. Bureaucrats. What more can I say? C’est beau la petite bourgeoise qui boit du champagne. (It’s the beautiful little rich who drink champagne).

Regardless of feelings, be safe out there even if you do have to carry a cup and string to stay in communications. I guess before agencies commit to $6,000+ radios they should be sure they can afford them for everyone. Staying on FDMA would have allowed the transition to TDMA while they saved their dimes and nickels up for more radios. Who would have thunked about that?

Go steal you the desk queen from your boss they probably aren’t using it.

I’ll drop the mic now.

Best wishes.