Wanting to get into HF
- Thread starter jasday
- Start date
- Status
Token
Member
If by “scanning” you mean scanning as done on VHF/UHF for public service frequencies, pre-programmed frequencies automatically scanned and stopping on a freq when activity is present, that typically is not done with HF Utilities monitoring. It is done for certain digital modes, such as ALE, but not most other Utilities.
You kind of need to define your target set a bit. Will it be military? Aviation? Maritime? Etc.
HF Ute voice signals are typically in SSB, and scanning with squelch just does not do that all that well. The most interesting signals tend to by transient and on temporarily used frequencies, meaning you have to be on the right freq at the right time to really hear the interesting stuff. Sure, there are some frequencies that are well defined, but many interesting ones are less well known or documented.
So, talk about specifics of what you want to hear, I think if you do that people can make more informed recommendations.
T!
TailGator911
Silent Key/KF4ANC
My first HF radio was an Eddystone EC10 portable with usb/lsb and I could hear the oilfield workers and supply boats off the coast of Huntington Beach, Calif., this was in 1967. I've had more radios than I can even remember, but my early favorite was a Yaesu FRG-7, then an Icom R71A and I then graduated to the Icom R75. I still have the FRG-7 and the R75 on my desk, next to my most recent purchase in that category (and others) the Icom Ic-R8600. Lived on both coasts in Florida for a period of 22 years and that was HF utility monitoring heaven! Coast Guard was a priority, also oil rigs, tankers, and most any nautical vessels. I was (and still am) an avid Hurricane Hunters listener and still monitor hurricane coms and track them on a custom map that I purchased from the Weather Channel. Utility monitoring isn't what it used to be since the advent of digital communications, but there is still a lot to listen for.
As the previous poster mentioned, 'scanning' ute channels is problematic in the conventional squelch sense. It's best to put active voice channels in a memory bank and scan them like that, and then manually hold when you hear something active and interesting. Hope you follow up and let us know what you purchase in the future!
JD
kf4anc
As the previous poster mentioned, 'scanning' ute channels is problematic in the conventional squelch sense. It's best to put active voice channels in a memory bank and scan them like that, and then manually hold when you hear something active and interesting. Hope you follow up and let us know what you purchase in the future!
JD
kf4anc
Not so sure that one can set up an HF radio to actually scan the utility channels. Most guys seem to hang out on a channel or two and listen to it for a while until there is activity. I used to do that with the SAC and other military channels in the late 80's and early 90's.... Basically, I'd program a handful of the aero, maritime, or other channels into my SW receiver and tune to one or two of them and see what pops up.
majoco
Stirrer
You have to remember that HF radio is primarily a long distance communication method which is entirely dependent on the time of day and the frequency in use. Land base to other land user or even near coastal users will be using VHF radio. I listen a lot to the HF aircraft frequencies and fortunately there are only a choice of 5 for my South Pacific area. My ground station is Auckland which is about 500km/300miles away which puts me right in the skip zone - the ground wave has petered out and the sky wave hasn't returned on it's first bounce - on the most popular daytime frequency 8867kHz, but Nadi, Fiji booms in and Brisbane, Australia does the same on 13261kHz. Late afternoon it gets better, I get Auckland, Nadi, Tahiti and San Francisco from Hawai'i all on 8867 but then they all change to 5643kHz as it get dark, Brisbane goes to 8867kHz - it's a lottery! Late at night and very early morning when it's still dark I can get most of the North Atlantic right across from Europe to Gander from either the path across Asia or the across the US - actually both paths are about the same distance!
This is all done on a Off-centre dipole cut for about 9MHz through a multicoupler to a selection of receivers which I tune to the different frequencies - scanning as in VHF scanning just doesn't work for HF due to the background noise. The Aussie radio company Codan make a nice voice-frequency "gate" but not as a stand-alone device - it's embodied in their transceivers but one day......
Winradio G33DDC and G303, JRC NRD 515, Debeg 7313, Kenwood R2000, HP SLA3586A , FRG 7 and lots of portables.......one day I'll have to thin the herd!
This is all done on a Off-centre dipole cut for about 9MHz through a multicoupler to a selection of receivers which I tune to the different frequencies - scanning as in VHF scanning just doesn't work for HF due to the background noise. The Aussie radio company Codan make a nice voice-frequency "gate" but not as a stand-alone device - it's embodied in their transceivers but one day......
Winradio G33DDC and G303, JRC NRD 515, Debeg 7313, Kenwood R2000, HP SLA3586A , FRG 7 and lots of portables.......one day I'll have to thin the herd!
I would strongly recommend purchasing a software defined radio. That, coupled with a good antenna, something like the Wellbrook loop antenna would be an excellent start. HF is challenging as other posters have stated. Being able to see a chunk, or even the entire HF spectrum on a single computer screen is huge.
Check out SDR.HU and you can see what I mean.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Check out SDR.HU and you can see what I mean.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Token
Member
SDRs are excellent for Ute monitoring. Better yet, the combination of an SDR and traditional radios.
The waterfall of an SDR can help you find or identify Ute transmissions. Utes, at least the more interesting ones, tend to be transient and infrequent. The waterfall allows you to watch relatively large swaths of frequencies all simultaneously, looking for activity.
The problem with most SDRs softwares, and it is the software, not the SDR itself, is that when looking at say a 5 or 10 Mhz wide segment for activity you often need to zoom in and out to see details and tell if a signal is one you want to grab or not. Most SDR software clears and rewrites the wide waterfall as you zoom. The only software that does not, at least the only one I can think of off the top of my head, is the WinRadio GUI. It allows you to zoom in and out, and slide back and forth, without rewriting the wideband waterfall. This way you can monitor the entire 30 MHz region 0 to 30 MHz visually, and zoom in as needed, without loosing data or history.
And of course, that GUI only works with the WinRadio SDR hardware, G31DDC, G33DDC, and G35DDC. These are all excellent, really outstanding, pieces of hardware, but can be a tad on the pricey side. Really, they are not expensive when compared to the cost of a traditional quality desktop receiver, but people tend to think of SDR as a low cost option. It can be low cost, but better performance does cost more, TANSTAAFL.
When people see entry level SDRs in the sub $50 price range and decent quality and performance SDRs in the $100 - $450 range (with really good performance to cost ratios) they can loose track of the fact there are better SDRs out there, they just cost more. HF focused, high quality, SDRs start at around $450 and go up, with expensive models being several thousand dollars.
The quality of HF receiver, for a given price point and dollar value, has never matched what can be had today, driven primarily by SDR, but even in more traditional radio technologies.
A middle of the road receiver from the early 1980's, lets say a Yaesu FRG-7700, was in the $400 - 550 range when brand new. That is like $1000 - 1400 in todays dollars. The lower end Radio Shack DX-302 listed for $400, but often was on sale for around $300 ($750+ today). The venerable Radio Shack DX-150, a good, but decidedly entry level, HF radio, was $120 in 1968, that is the same spending power as $850 in todays money. With these prices in mind the value of an entry to mid level HF traditional radio in todays money has pretty much always been $750 and up, to about $1500. Good quality desktops, when brand new, have had a modern day spending value of $1500 and up quite a bit. For example, in 1964 the Hammarlund HQ-180A listed for $450 (with clock, $440 without), or about $3600 in todays spending value. But today truly outstanding, I mean world class, performance can be had in SDR for under $2000, and excellent performance for under $400.
Sorry for the historic sidetrack, I just wanted to say, SDRs are excellent for Ute, and todays radio values (performance vs cost) are outstanding.
T!
The waterfall of an SDR can help you find or identify Ute transmissions. Utes, at least the more interesting ones, tend to be transient and infrequent. The waterfall allows you to watch relatively large swaths of frequencies all simultaneously, looking for activity.
The problem with most SDRs softwares, and it is the software, not the SDR itself, is that when looking at say a 5 or 10 Mhz wide segment for activity you often need to zoom in and out to see details and tell if a signal is one you want to grab or not. Most SDR software clears and rewrites the wide waterfall as you zoom. The only software that does not, at least the only one I can think of off the top of my head, is the WinRadio GUI. It allows you to zoom in and out, and slide back and forth, without rewriting the wideband waterfall. This way you can monitor the entire 30 MHz region 0 to 30 MHz visually, and zoom in as needed, without loosing data or history.
And of course, that GUI only works with the WinRadio SDR hardware, G31DDC, G33DDC, and G35DDC. These are all excellent, really outstanding, pieces of hardware, but can be a tad on the pricey side. Really, they are not expensive when compared to the cost of a traditional quality desktop receiver, but people tend to think of SDR as a low cost option. It can be low cost, but better performance does cost more, TANSTAAFL.
When people see entry level SDRs in the sub $50 price range and decent quality and performance SDRs in the $100 - $450 range (with really good performance to cost ratios) they can loose track of the fact there are better SDRs out there, they just cost more. HF focused, high quality, SDRs start at around $450 and go up, with expensive models being several thousand dollars.
The quality of HF receiver, for a given price point and dollar value, has never matched what can be had today, driven primarily by SDR, but even in more traditional radio technologies.
A middle of the road receiver from the early 1980's, lets say a Yaesu FRG-7700, was in the $400 - 550 range when brand new. That is like $1000 - 1400 in todays dollars. The lower end Radio Shack DX-302 listed for $400, but often was on sale for around $300 ($750+ today). The venerable Radio Shack DX-150, a good, but decidedly entry level, HF radio, was $120 in 1968, that is the same spending power as $850 in todays money. With these prices in mind the value of an entry to mid level HF traditional radio in todays money has pretty much always been $750 and up, to about $1500. Good quality desktops, when brand new, have had a modern day spending value of $1500 and up quite a bit. For example, in 1964 the Hammarlund HQ-180A listed for $450 (with clock, $440 without), or about $3600 in todays spending value. But today truly outstanding, I mean world class, performance can be had in SDR for under $2000, and excellent performance for under $400.
Sorry for the historic sidetrack, I just wanted to say, SDRs are excellent for Ute, and todays radio values (performance vs cost) are outstanding.
T!
Thanks T!
I should have been more specific. I guess scanning was the wrong word to use, more of monitoring?
I'm honestly open to listening to anything. Discoveries and such. Listening to the HFGCS from the AF would be my first stop, going through their list of frequencies. Military, Aviation, I'm open to it all.
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
If you are researching SDRs then you would do well to start here. Lots of models, user reviews, software...it should keep you busy awhile.
https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Software_Defined_Radios
And keep in mind we have a dedicated SDR forum for questions on these radios.
Mike
https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Software_Defined_Radios
And keep in mind we have a dedicated SDR forum for questions on these radios.
Mike
Jasday, you might check here for station locations & frequencies: High Frequency Global Communications System - Wikipedia
So I found a page that had nothing but online SDRs (who frickin knew!) And played around with several on there. That was pretty cool!
hardsuit
Member
jasday - I started with a Radio Shack Multiband portable Radio, it was Analog and had Mechanical tuning, no PLL here. this was 1970's or so, and in the 80's I upgraded to a ICOM R71A HF Receiver, this was among some Great HF Receiver along with Kenwood, Alinco, Standard and Yeasu.
Today I have a ICOM Digital Receiver R 8600 for Home and R30 for hand held. both are the Gold Standard when it comes to Modern HF Receiver.
However there are Others as well.
BTW, with a HF Receiver you Don't really Scan at all, you Program your Channels, and BE on the Correct ONE at the Correct Time, you can BUY a HF Utility book that gives Frequency and Correct TIMES to Listen to HF. However some Targets like the USCG Broadcast on Multiple channel at the same Time. and Others may do the Same.
Today I have a ICOM Digital Receiver R 8600 for Home and R30 for hand held. both are the Gold Standard when it comes to Modern HF Receiver.
However there are Others as well.
BTW, with a HF Receiver you Don't really Scan at all, you Program your Channels, and BE on the Correct ONE at the Correct Time, you can BUY a HF Utility book that gives Frequency and Correct TIMES to Listen to HF. However some Targets like the USCG Broadcast on Multiple channel at the same Time. and Others may do the Same.
Maybe a good route to go would be the SDRPlay RSP2 SDR receiver. The most recent version of their SDRUno software offers scanning of both memories or a defined frequency range limit. Using the automatic frequency scan to memory feature, I have created a number of memory banks for various services such as air traffic, military operations (I am very close to MacDill AFB), local public emergency activity, etc. It isn't a scanner in the sense of a purpose designed unit like say a SDS200 but it is quite useful for finding things on any frequency bands.
The receiver offers 10 MHz of bandwidth at one time which is useful for "hunting", and covers 10 KHz to 2 GHz continuous. Not even the cellular range is blocked, which I'm not sure how they get away with.
The receiver offers 10 MHz of bandwidth at one time which is useful for "hunting", and covers 10 KHz to 2 GHz continuous. Not even the cellular range is blocked, which I'm not sure how they get away with.
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
No book is ever complete for long - that's why the well known World Radio TV Handbook issues PDF based updates from time to time. For utilities, there's really 2 sources - the Utility DXers Forum mailing list on groups.io (and the UDXF website) along with the Spectrum Monitor mag (electronic pub) which has logs. Between the 2 of them, you'll get a good picture of what's out there from month to month. And you should keep your eye on current events. As an example, the Chinese building artificial islands and bases on the Spratly Island chain in the South China Sea has resurrected a digital mode not seen on a regular basis in many years (CCIR493-4).
There are several 'fixed' (and I'm using that term rather loosely, as that has several meanings in this context) frequencies that don't change very much (such as NAVTEX broadcasts, HFDL - which just changed after a very long hiatus - and various FAX broadcasts), but without knowing where to look, you are effectively blind.
There are several 'fixed' (and I'm using that term rather loosely, as that has several meanings in this context) frequencies that don't change very much (such as NAVTEX broadcasts, HFDL - which just changed after a very long hiatus - and various FAX broadcasts), but without knowing where to look, you are effectively blind.
TailGator911
Silent Key/KF4ANC
When I lived in Florida I used my Yaesu FRG-7 for shortwave broadcast listening and a pair of Icoms (R71A & R75) for offshore utility monitoring and I had several memory groups for various utilities, offshore rigs, ships, that were always active, and I often referred to my dog-eared copy of Klingenfuss utility guide - great book! - to search for frequencies to monitor. That book was (and still is) my utility frequency bible. Still publishing today - Klingenfuss Shortwave Frequency Guide - and keeping up with the times and SDR radio. My HF monitoring equipment has changed a little - I still use my FRG-7 for anything broadcast, and still use my R75, but my go-to HF radio is my Icom R8600. With just a 40-foot end fed PAR wire outside I can DX around the world with that thing. I love it. Another book I would highly recommend is Passport To World Band Radio, there you can find tons of shortwave broadcast frequencies, transmit times, schedules, etc. It helps to have a mini reference library close at hand, sometimes faster than the internet. Sometimes old-fashioned is good
JD
kf4anc
JD
kf4anc
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
A little behind here, Tail. Passport went belly up years ago (several of us, including me, tried to get Larry to convert to electronic publication and he simply didn't want to do it), and their skeds are WAY out of date. The World Radio TV Handbook (WRTH) is, and continues to be, the standard
Besides the OP's original question was about utility 'scanning', not broadcast...
Mike
Besides the OP's original question was about utility 'scanning', not broadcast...
Mike
TailGator911
Silent Key/KF4ANC
Yep have that one, too (WRTH) in my library. Hey I'm always a little behind here, but I'm catching up
majoco
Stirrer
Not forgetting Dan's site here...
swskeds at groups.io - you'll need to register before you get to log in.
...last update 190414-1930 - 14th April at 7.30pm - can't get any 'newer' than that! It's a huge spreadsheet with over 22,000 entries!
swskeds at groups.io - you'll need to register before you get to log in.
...last update 190414-1930 - 14th April at 7.30pm - can't get any 'newer' than that! It's a huge spreadsheet with over 22,000 entries!
Thank you guys so much. I've been messing around with the online SDRs that I have found. It's pretty cool. I think I may go that route of getting a SDR. I am also looking at the Icom R30 as a portable when i am at work and such. Thank you guys for all the information.
- Status
