Waukesha County -- Overkill on radio procedure?

[triryche]

Sort of a rant here..

Been listening to Waukesha County all day..

WHAT is with all the multiple tranmissions and repeated information for simple status updates? Good lord, no wonder they are always stepping all over one another and asking for repeats!

EXAMPLE:

"Dispatch 1151"
"1151 Dispatch"
"Dispatch 1151 on scene"
"1151 Dispatch on scene 7:26"

why not just simply and precisely:

"1151 to Dispatch we're on scene"
"copy 1151 on scene 7:26"

Seems like a lot of unneccesary BS to me and double the amount of tranmsissions for this doncha think? It's almost confusing as to whom dispatch is too because to me it makes more sense to identify yourself as the unit calling first and then indicate your intended recipient. I know some of you are going to flame me and stick up for this but that's good. I'd like to hear how making things more complicated improves anything.

 

[mkescan]

Thanks!! I wanted to say that for a long time.

 

[EMSJohn]

Going through EMT classes and Ops classes they specifically taught us to keep transmissions short and compact, otherwise all you're doing is wasting airspace that might be needed for emergency traffic. If I could hear the freq you're talking about, I'd be really annoyed by transmissions like your example. Thanks!

 

[triryche]

You can catch a sampling for yourself...

http://www.wifirefeeds.com

Select the Waukesha County feed

:wink:

 

[nslt204]

No doubt KISS is the best when it comes to radio. One of the organizations I am with holds a radio communications training yearly and the prime tenant is "just because we give you a radio does not mean you HAVE to talk on it". Listening is or at least should be the major part of communications.

I will agree there are dispatchers and radio users out there and not just in Waukesha Co that sound like they are Reading a novel on the air.
Keep it short, concise to the point.

I will disagree with the sender/receiver format. The now near international standard at least for fire is receiver/sender.
To say Dispatch from Engine 3 cuts way way down on the Unit with a 3 repeat stuff.
Also always wait for acknowledgment on the first call before giving the message. Much better to have an extra exchange at the beginning than a bunch of can you repeat I was on another channel or phone.
The Receivers listening ears should perk up when their ID is used first and then actually hear the rest of the transmission.
I have worked in both systems for 20+ years and the latter works much much better. Many less lost initial exchanges. Especially on repeaters. Trunking not so much because the radio more or less forces you to wait with the pre-tone chirps.

Sort of a rant here..

Been listening to Waukesha County all day..

WHAT is with all the multiple tranmissions and repeated information for simple status updates? Good lord, no wonder they are always stepping all over one another and asking for repeats!

EXAMPLE:

"Dispatch 1151"
"1151 Dispatch"
"Dispatch 1151 on scene"
"1151 Dispatch on scene 7:26"

why not just simply and precisely:

"1151 to Dispatch we're on scene"
"copy 1151 on scene 7:26"

Seems like a lot of unneccesary BS to me and double the amount of tranmsissions for this doncha think? It's almost confusing as to whom dispatch is too because to me it makes more sense to identify yourself as the unit calling first and then indicate your intended recipient. I know some of you are going to flame me and stick up for this but that's good. I'd like to hear how making things more complicated improves anything.

 

[triryche]

I will disagree with the sender/receiver format. The now near international standard at least for fire is receiver/sender.
To say Dispatch from Engine 3 cuts way way down on the Unit with a 3 repeat stuff.
Also always wait for acknowledgment on the first call before giving the message. .

Oh I'm with ya.. I'd be all for that but they are missing the "FROM" in there. They just say Dispatch and the unit number or vise versa and I thought I was in a tunnel of echoes or something for a while there! :lol: "To" or "From" definitely clears things up. I'm getting used to the elimination of 10-codes (although I think 10-4 should stay) but some of this extra garbage like Waukesha doing is way overboard.

Thanks for the reply from within the field by the way. :wink:

 

[1268]

No doubt KISS is the best when it comes to radio. One of the organizations I am with holds a radio communications training yearly and the prime tenant is "just because we give you a radio does not mean you HAVE to talk on it". Listening is or at least should be the major part of communications.

I will agree there are dispatchers and radio users out there and not just in Waukesha Co that sound like they are Reading a novel on the air.
Keep it short, concise to the point.

I will disagree with the sender/receiver format. The now near international standard at least for fire is receiver/sender.
To say Dispatch from Engine 3 cuts way way down on the Unit with a 3 repeat stuff.
Also always wait for acknowledgment on the first call before giving the message. Much better to have an extra exchange at the beginning than a bunch of can you repeat I was on another channel or phone.
The Receivers listening ears should perk up when their ID is used first and then actually hear the rest of the transmission.
I have worked in both systems for 20+ years and the latter works much much better. Many less lost initial exchanges. Especially on repeaters. Trunking not so much because the radio more or less forces you to wait with the pre-tone chirps.

The first thing that I noticed was the sender receiver format ,agreed it should always be receiver/sender. I also think that all new personal should be given a radio that receives only for there first two weeks..because as you said you learn a lot from listening.
Great post !

 

[AxelsHumanDad]

EXAMPLE:
"Dispatch 1151"
"1151 Dispatch"
"Dispatch 1151 on scene"
"1151 Dispatch on scene 7:26"

why not just simply and precisely:
"1151 to Dispatch we're on scene"
"copy 1151 on scene 7:26"

Seems like a lot of unneccesary BS to me and double the amount of tranmsissions for this doncha think?

Langlade does the same. it is annoying.

 

[nslt204]

It has been my observation that Chiefs should have radios that only receive and when they want to transmit it just gives them a canned 10-4.
Chief
Has
Arrived
On
Scene

:roll:

The first thing that I noticed was the sender receiver format ,agreed it should always be receiver/sender. I also think that all new personal should be given a radio that receives only for there first two weeks..because as you said you learn a lot from listening.
Great post !

 

[mkescan]

In Milwaukee County the House of Correction Vans and buses will call sheriff dispatch when they transport and tell them where they are going and how many are on board.
One guard would always call in with loud voice "Dispatch HOC 661" and he would always say "niner"for 9 too.
Seemed to me some dispatchers were annoyed when he called in.
One day dispatch must of been real busy and didn't answer until the 2nd or 3rd time the guard called in and the dispatcher let the guard have it.
He said thats not the proper way to call in "I am the dispatcher not you" and told him its unit number followed by dispatch.

 

[a1emt]

Sort of a rant here..

Been listening to Waukesha County all day..

WHAT is with all the multiple tranmissions and repeated information for simple status updates? Good lord, no wonder they are always stepping all over one another and asking for repeats!

EXAMPLE:

"Dispatch 1151"
"1151 Dispatch"
"Dispatch 1151 on scene"
"1151 Dispatch on scene 7:26"

why not just simply and precisely:

"1151 to Dispatch we're on scene"
"copy 1151 on scene 7:26"

Seems like a lot of unneccesary BS to me and double the amount of tranmsissions for this doncha think? It's almost confusing as to whom dispatch is too because to me it makes more sense to identify yourself as the unit calling first and then indicate your intended recipient. I know some of you are going to flame me and stick up for this but that's good. I'd like to hear how making things more complicated improves anything.

WCC is doing what other dispatch centers should probably be doing on a regular basis.

In the public safety community (especially fire service) we have embraced the "order model" for fireground communications. This model includes the receiver/sender format (mentioned by Scott), getting the receiving unit's attention instead of just "blurting out" the transmission (which is often missed if the dispatcher is busy) and "echoing" the message to assure the proper message was received.

Despite the press attention that WCC has gotten lately, fire service users in the county have some very positive comments on the improvements that the center has made in the last year regarding the speed and accuracy of dispatching.

 

[OpSec]

This is simple:

WCC has their verbal blabbering because the departments they dispatch for want them to. When WCC was formed, they let the agencies they dispatch for (PD and FD) dictate policy, so now the dispatchers have to follow different policy and procedures for every department. It's one of the most disorganized things I've ever seen. The internal stress this creates is huge, and certainly contributes to that center's 40% turnover rate.

The fire dispatching is much worse than police, but it exists with both sides.

 

[KB9NLL]

They know your listening so they're trying to confuse you so you can't tell whos who but they know who they are as far as unit or dispather so it doesn't bother them.:lol:

I totally agree also as far as using up air time when something is going down they'll (P.D.'s/S.O.'s in generall that I hear) restrict the channel (they have 2) but then the dispatcher will repeat everything that is said in the of chance someone missed something which I understand but can't they shorten It, not stumble over they're words trying to remember what was said, etc... cause it causes the primaries and dispatcher to talk over each other at times then they got to repeat wich gets repeated... yi yi yi ... heaven forbid have the repeater open in case they get trouble all of a sudden.

One time I heard a old school mate (known felon) wrestling with a sheriff deputy all alone. Help racing from far away. Well in the scuffle the deputie's H.T. switched to county fire ch. 1. While they were fighting the dispatcher kept telling him to switch frequencies (ya right) and even started ignoring his later transmissions. Now they knew who he was right of the bat- a known felon, she knew he was on fire 1 after the initial conversation he kept calling dispatch on fire 1 and dispatch kept calling for him on the sheriff freq (I have more than one radio). She wouldn't talk to him on the fire frequency which wasn't in use by any fire units at the time. As far as he knew his calls were going unanswered. She can't be that stupid:

fire1:unit to dispatch... sh1:unit go ahead... pause
fire1:unit to dispatch... sh1:unit go ahead... pause
fire1:unit to dispatch... sh1:unit go ahead... pause.

Even if she can't tell which freq. is talking you'd think after just talking to the deputy, he said he couldn't get to his radio, and three calls for help... dah maybe he's still on fire 1... no such luck. oh well. Just glad it ended up ok, like I said I went to school with the guy I know what he's like.:roll: