Were you once a HAM, quit activity, let your license expire and never looked back?

[mmckenna]

CW rules. If you're a tech, that's HF. Aside from the 10 Meter SSB segment, that right now is still iffy.

I think what Lauri is nicely saying is "It's time to drag amateur radio, kicking and screaming, out of the 1920's".

I agree.

 

[Boombox]

I think what Lauri is nicely saying is "It's time to drag amateur radio, kicking and screaming, out of the 1920's".

I agree.

Cool, but if you're a tech and you want to work HF, all you need is an HF rig and a code key (and the ability to send and receive) and a decent antenna. It's more of a bear than shooting skip on 10 meters SSB through a whip, or using a handy-talky on the VHF bands, but it's there, and it works, and if you have a good antenna you can probably do well with the novice/tech HF CW frequencies.

And if you've taken a listen to the HF bands lately, the CW sections are still alive and well. Amateurs making contacts. Which is what amateur radio is about, after all, on its most basic level -- hams making contact.

 

[AK9R]

I think what Lauri is nicely saying is "It's time to drag amateur radio, kicking and screaming, out of the 1920's".

Old far...er...fogey alert!

It's time for holders of the Technician license to do a little studying and pass the 35-question General exam.

Yeah, I'm one of "them".

Looking back into my amateur radio past, for 16 years, I was a lowly Technician who longed for access to the HF bands. Oh, woe is me. I can't get on HF. I'm cut off from the "mainstream" of amateur radio and stuck in the cesspool of VHF/UHF.

Actually, while I was a lowly Technician for the first 16 years, I had no interest in the HF bands. I was having fun on VHF/UHF and didn't see the need to upgrade. OK, that's a bit of a lie. I had been exposed to HF at Field Day and thought it might be interesting to operate there. But, I lived in a place where I couldn't put up an antenna for HF, so there was no point in me getting HF privileges. The real reason? This is a biggie...You still had to pass a Morse code test at this time in order to get a General license and, in spite of my attempts to learn, I just wasn't going to put forth the effort to pass that test.

And, then, the FCC dropped the code requirement for General and Extra. I started studying the General question pool, took the test, and passed. (I also took the Extra test at the same VE session and passed that one, too.)

For most people, it's not that hard. Do a little studying and take the General exam. Stop trying to change the rules just because you don't want to take a test and upgrade your license.

Look up "curmudgeon" in the dictionary and you'll see my photo.

 

[jwt873]

And if you've taken a listen to the HF bands lately, the CW sections are still alive and well. Amateurs making contacts. Which is what amateur radio is about, after all, on its most basic level -- hams making contact.

Yes.. To really see it, you just have to listen during a CW contest.. The CW portion of the bands are absolutely jammed with signals.

 

[Chronic]

Did the hobby no longer seem "cutting edge enough" for you?
Did it get too "commercial"?
Did your favorite hang out or mode dry up and fade away?
Were there local politics that put a damper on your enthusiasm"?
Were too many of your buddies dying off?
Was it getting too expensive?
Was the XYL an issue?
Was it due to lack of time?
Did the Internet play a part in leaving Amateur Radio?

Was it due to only being a tech and not exploring HF?

 

[mmckenna]

Old far...er...fogey alert!

It's time for holders of the Technician license to do a little studying and pass the 35-question General exam.

I'm with you...

My point wasn't that the General or Extra tests are that hard. My point was I don't think segregating the bands is effective as it once was. While I know it'll get me banned from the next ham club meeting at Denny's, I kind of like the single license class idea.

But, it's been a while since I worked HF.

 

[ladn]

My point wasn't that the General or Extra tests are that hard. My point was I don't think segregating the bands is effective as it once was. While I know it'll get me banned from the next ham club meeting at Denny's, I kind of like the single license class idea.

I'm not quite ready to support a single license concept (but not really that opposed, either). I'm more comfortable with a two-tier license structure:

• An entry or restricted tier that is basically equivalent to Technician, but includes full 10M privileges and some HF voice on all bands and full legal power on all bands
• An unrestricted license that's equivalent to Extra
• Present licensees could keep their present class, but privileges would be aligned to the new classes (meaning that General and above would have full privileges and Technician and below would have the revised, restricted privileges)

I'll join you at Applebee's since I'll be banned from Denny's and Hometown Buffet.

 

[CHHTX]

Cool, but if you're a tech and you want to work HF, all you need is an HF rig and a code key (and the ability to send and receive) and a decent antenna. It's more of a bear than shooting skip on 10 meters SSB through a whip, or using a handy-talky on the VHF bands, but it's there, and it works, and if you have a good antenna you can probably do well with the novice/tech HF CW frequencies.

And if you've taken a listen to the HF bands lately, the CW sections are still alive and well. Amateurs making contacts. Which is what amateur radio is about, after all, on its most basic level -- hams making contact.

Not to argue but I think that's probably a big part of what I don't relate to. (and that's ok!) I've seen so many guys who said "I talked to Botswana last night!" and when I ask what they talked about, they get really confused. 99% of the time the conversation was "can you hear me? yes. ok, here's my address that you can send me a contact card". ......And that's it. Not much of a conversation.

I've seen it before in the car & motorcycle building hobby as well. The hobby is more about them building something from scratch and not focusing on the part about finishing it or it being functional in the end. For them, like some radio guys, the fun is in the build and what they're working on at the moment I guess. To me, its the finished, functional product that I enjoy after the build as well.

 

[n0xvz]

It's time for holders of the Technician license to do a little studying and pass the 35-question General exam.

So...I'm (slowly) studying to upgrade to General...after ~30 years, it's probably time. . I'm surprised how much general (sic) information I've retained despite periods of inactivity through the years. I've found a few areas I need to brush up on (I don't use a lot of electronic principles in my day job).

Looking back into my amateur radio past, for 16 years, I was a lowly Technician who longed for access to the HF bands. Oh, woe is me. I can't get on HF. I'm cut off from the "mainstream" of amateur radio and stuck in the cesspool of VHF/UHF.

I hear you...and I'm kinda there too. But...I really don't have a desire to operate on HF. Sure, I've been "exposed" to it and understand what it offers. I want to upgrade so I have the option if I ever do get the bug (or retire and have the time I'd like to spend on it). Honestly, I don't even have a fixed base at the QTH for VHF/UHF, so setting up an HF station isn't high on my priorities.

But I think that's the best part of the hobby...it can be many different things for many different people.

 

[Boombox]

Not to argue but I think that's probably a big part of what I don't relate to. (and that's ok!) I've seen so many guys who said "I talked to Botswana last night!" and when I ask what they talked about, they get really confused. 99% of the time the conversation was "can you hear me? yes. ok, here's my address that you can send me a contact card". ......And that's it. Not much of a conversation.

Fair enough. And I've heard enough of those contacts. But I was referring to CW as still being pertinent to the hobby. Making contacts with other hams is the point. The extent of the QSO really is somewhat immaterial. And when it comes to digital HF in the ham bands, many of those contacts have the same dearth of conversation that you might hear on CW or via SSB. They're just contacts. The main difference is with CW and SSB, in most cases, someone is actually actively operating the equipment.

If one is in the hobby -- any hobby -- you always choose how deep you want to get into it, and in what respects.

I was just saying that CW on HF still has something to offer the Tech.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

I don't care how you colour it, restricting Tech's to HF CW just plain sux's.

It might have made semi-sense when Novices had to "move up or move out" (the days of 1 year non-renewable Novice licenses- when a General class license exam meant a trip to an FCC office and a 13 wpm code test.)
This gave the poor bunnies a chance to practice their code on-the-air, and maybe return to ham radio. I guess they could have gone the Tech route and kept a ham's meager presence, but if you look at what the original Tech's could do in the '50's, it was its quite nauseating--- they had full privileges on 220 MHz and above... 220 !!... and we are talking 1950's technology; regen receivers and modulated oscillators--- And no Novice HF CW stuff to practice code ..........whoooopee !

So, the same mentality is with us 70 years later ?
sighs...........

I don't care if someone wants to chirp out....a ......conv..ver..sation....at..... a ......a .......snail's........pace... (static crash) ........on ......a ....tele...graph....ic.... key-.....Hey, I am an historian and love spark gap stories (I even have a great aunt who was a Marconi operator; )
I've also known some people that like to re-enact civil war battles---- if these CW aficionado's want to re-enact Titanic type disasters in Morse Code --more power to them. That's their choice.
But sticking Tech's to CW only on major HF bands like this is 1912---and I'll say it again--- just Sux's !

(For what its worth, I took the US ham license code test at the FCC; their main office in Washington DC -- and before better sense over took me I was shooting for the full 20 wpm Extra--- I could chirp Morse along with the best of them**.)

Will modernizing the hobby have saved the poor souls that this subject laments- the ones who slipped between the cracks --
Who knows ? But it made me feel better to have vent'd my spleen when I saw the letters "CW."


Lauri




_____________________________________________________________

**I bailed out as an Advanced Class and never looked back

.

 

[R0am3r]

I don't care how you colour it, restricting Tech's to HF CW just plain sux's.

<snip>

So, the same mentality is with us 70 years later ?
sighs...........

The 70 year old mentality you speak of is people working hard to earn their privileges. Reality check - the tests are NOT that hard. If a middle school kid can pass these tests, I am pretty sure most people could do it. Of course, we could treat Amateur Radio like youth sports and hand out trophies to everyone. That would level the playing field and fix that broken 70 year old mentality you speak of. While we're at it, we could hand out driver's licenses to everyone who asks. Who needs a test to drive an 18-wheeler at 88 MPH? And maybe we should hand out diplomas too! Look everyone, here is your BS, MS, and PhD. I always thought my engineering degree was unfair to others.

For what its worth, I took the FCC General Class test at the Federal Building in Syracuse NY. I know that stress, but also worked hard to earn my license. I later upgraded to Advanced and Amateur Extra (20 WPM). I don't care if you are a code warrior or not. If you have a FCC issued license, you earned it and I hope you are still enjoying the hobby. It is really that simple.

To bring this back to the topic, almost everyone seems to get busy in life and puts the hobby on the back burner. When I was working for Uncle Sam and raising a family, I too put my life-long hobby on hold. Feeding the kids and deploying to various places around the world kept me busy enough. The great thing about Amateur Radio is you can always come back and find something new. In case you haven't heard, CW is no longer required. If you prefer rag chewing, throw a wire in the air and chat away on 40 meters. If you are computer lover, plug in and try FT8 or one of the other digital modes. Or better yet, pull up your favorite IDE and roll your own software. The hobby has lots to offer. Don't give up and never stop learning.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.

I guess I wasn't coming across clearly-- no one is saying make the licensing/entry into this past-time easier. Goodness knows that entry has never been so painlessly humane as it is today. I was once a VE and marvel'd at how wonderful it was that we could license an aspirant compared to what many of us endured under the steely eyes of government inspectors.
Keep the licensing the way it is, if you will... just give the Tech's something more than some measly Morse code on HF .

This is such an emotionally charged subject that so routinely pops up in these forums ad nauseam that I weary of fighting yet another windmill.
But Guys, don't conflate a ham license with other licenses. A "license' is a permission to act-- its a permission granted by competent authority to engage in an activity that would otherwise be unlawful. Licenses are suppose to protect society from incompetent boobs who would make a muck of things. A driver's license is suppose to show you can operate a multi-tonne dangerous moving machine--- and nothing more. A ham license says you can (hopefully) operate a radio transmitter without interfering with Air Force One. It says nothing more.

So give the poor Tech's some 'phone band space on HF. It won't diminish anyone's precious license class-- you can still continue to snub them to your heart's content--- but Ham Radio will survive--- and I dare say, it will improve.

Lauri



.

 

[mmckenna]

but Ham Radio will survive--- and I dare say, it will improve.

I think that's where the individual points of view start to differ.
Some will claim that "no-code" was the "end of the hobby".
But we know it wasn't. It gave amateur radio the boost it needed to get through the tail end of the 20th century as technology greatly outpaced amateur radio. But now we seem to be stuck there (again….).

I agree, the licensing is easy and shouldn't have the skills requirement reduced in any way. The current tech license is easy enough to get and shouldn't be a stumbling block for anyone interested in the hobby.
Giving techs some additional allotments in the HF bands isn't going to end the hobby.

I know the Ghost of Hiram Maxim will haunt me if I say this, but I still -personally- like the idea of less license classes. Not to dumb down the hobby, but to reduce the levels of snobbery. After being a ham for decades and working in the industry for 30 years, the superiority complexes that I see with higher grade ham licensees needs to be taken down a notch. Most of us that have been around for a while are not impressed by the number of multiple choice tests anyone has passed. I sort of like the idea of two license classes (or twist my arm and I'll agree to one). Tech level the same as it is now with additional voice allocations on HF, and a single higher level class that gives access to everything else in the ham bands.

I know, CW school, uphill both ways in the snow with plastic bags for shoes and no straight keys, just two bare wires you touched together to send and hope you didn't get shocked. Straight keys are for pansy's.

 

[Omega-TI]

.

I guess I wasn't coming across clearly-- no one is saying make the licensing/entry into this past-time easier. Goodness knows that entry has never been so painlessly humane as it is today. I was once a VE and marvel'd at how wonderful it was that we could license an aspirant compared to what many of us endured under the steely eyes of government inspectors.
Keep the licensing the way it is, if you will... just give the Tech's something more than some measly Morse code on HF .

This is such an emotionally charged subject that so routinely pops up in these forums ad nauseam that I weary of fighting yet another windmill.
But Guys, don't conflate a ham license with other licenses. A "license' is a permission to act-- its a permission granted by competent authority to engage in an activity that would otherwise be unlawful. Licenses are suppose to protect society from incompetent boobs who would make a muck of things. A driver's license is suppose to show you can operate a multi-tonne dangerous moving machine--- and nothing more. A ham license says you can (hopefully) operate a radio transmitter without interfering with Air Force One. It says nothing more.

So give the poor Tech's some 'phone band space on HF. It won't diminish anyone's precious license class-- you can still continue to snub them to your heart's content--- but Ham Radio will survive--- and I dare say, it will improve.

Lauri

View attachment 128667

.

This is one of the most logical level headed and reasonable posts I've read in some time.

I swear some guys are complete and utter snobs thinking Amateur Radio is the Holy Grail or something. Whether it be the guy trying to act cool with three 2m HT's and microphones hanging off him with the sound blaring wearing his callsign and RACES T-Shirt, to the old fart that thinks Technicians are not "Real Hams". To me this kind of mentality is just as obnoxious as those guys running 1000 watts on 11 meters talking like fools. A Technician class license is essentially "entry level", but before some of them upgrade to General, they are turned off by the politics and class level bigotry of a handful of jerks. It's unfortunate, but sadly a few of them ruin it for others.

 

[AK9R]

Some will claim that "no-code" was the "end of the hobby".

A list of things that were the "end of amateur radio":

1. Phone
2. Single-sideband phone
3. FM
4. Repeaters
5. Incentive licensing
6. Multi-operator contesting
7. Sound card digital modes
8. Multi-multi contesting
9. Winlink
10. Single operator 2 radio (SO2R) contesting
11. Digital voice modes
12. FT8

Are there any I missed?

Whenever someone tells me that some technical or operational advancement will be the end of amateur radio, I just nod my head and go on with whatever I'm doing in amateur radio.

As for the number of license classes, you could probably whittle things down to just 1 class. Yeah, it may be chaos on the bands for a while. But, it'll even itself out after a few years.

 

[mmckenna]

Are there any I missed?

Yes:
Broadband over Power Lines
Cheap Chinese Radios
Cell Phones
Lizard People
Election not going the way I wanted it to.
GMRS
FRS
Internet anything
PAVE radar (hams forgot they were secondary on 70cm)
Antenna restrictions

Whenever someone tells me that some technical or operational advancement will be the end of amateur radio, I just nod my head and go on with whatever I'm doing in amateur radio.

You dang whippersnappers using your fancy frequency agile voice radios. Every "REAL" ham knows that a broadband spark gap transmitter and a crystal receiver is the ONLY REAL form of ham radio. Anything above 200 meter band is witchcraft.
I want, no DEMAND, that we drag amateur radio back into the 1920's and every ham should be able to blow their own glass vacuum tube envelopes and only using an open hearth fire started with flint and striker and hand mined coal.

As for the number of license classes, you could probably whittle things down to just 1 class. Yeah, it may be chaos on the bands for a while. But, it'll even itself out after a few years.

I would absolutely revel in that pandemonium. I'm sure ER visits would go through the roof with the heart palpitations of "real" hams.

QRZ.com would probably implode and take down the internet with it. Now how would all those hams communicate?

 

[W2JEL]

Seeing QRZ forums go into meltdown is entertainment to me.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.

Like forever I have been a proponent of the single licensed ham, with all privileges conveyed with one single class'd license.,,,,

Liberté, égalité, fraternité !!

This entry would have a exam that demonstrates a basic knowledge of the radio arts, sufficient to insure that the operators won't electrocute themself or family, that they know some common electrical principles, that....
Ack ! !
...........enuff of this- but you-all get the picture. If it were up to me it would be an upgraded Tech level exam.

As an aside, I like to chide others about their lack of appreciation for my favorite niche in this past-time-- my radars. I have never met another ham that even heard of this facet of ham radio. C-Band, Pulse modulation......


Lauri

.

 

[majoco]

Why is it so difficult in the US? Here it's "Take the exam and pass". "Operate on the bands below 5MHz and/or 10m and up for three months ", "show an examiner your logbook" and you're free to go anywhere you like.....



...and still I like to operate CW....