What does an RCAG look like?

Status
Not open for further replies.

K4DHR

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
131
Location
Berryville, VA
Fort Worth Center
Check out the HF LPDA antenna to the SW of the buidings
Bing Maps

Those HF antennas are being removed, the one here at Memphis Center was removed this past summer. They were intended to be a backup data link between adjacent centers should the hard wire data connections be severed, but I guess they determined it would be less expensive (not to mention easier to maintain) by just installing redundant data lines.
 

BigJimbo

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 23, 2003
Messages
212
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Since we're all in the RCAG mood...

In order....Here's RCAG Brookville, Ohio and RCAG Merwyn, Ohio. Both belong to Indy Center. The third photo is RCAG St. Charles, Missouri. It belongs to Kansas City Center.
 

Attachments

  • 1106001542.jpg
    1106001542.jpg
    74.4 KB · Views: 2,976
  • 1122081314.jpg
    1122081314.jpg
    89.9 KB · Views: 2,598
  • 0222091330.jpg
    0222091330.jpg
    77.8 KB · Views: 2,694

cipher66

ARTCC DB Manager
Database Admin
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
Messages
232
Location
Highland, IL
Great pics of the RCAGs!!! For those of you that don't already know, I spent the better half of last year getting all of the RCAGs geotagged on the database here at Radio Reference. For example, if you go to Kansas City ARTCC in the database, scroll down to the St Charles, MO RCAG, click on the little grey arrow next to it's name and select "View Sub Category Details". Then change the map to "Satellite" and zoom on in, you'll see the St Charles RCAG satellite view. Some of the RCAGs geo cords are a little off, but the vast majority are spot on.... I'd say that only 10% or less are a little off. Just another tool for figuring out where the transmitters are actually at. Also, just so you are aware, the receive site for many RCAGs is not the same as the transmit location. The service radius for each RCAG was based on FAA data where they designate that info for the purposes of "service" of the frequencies and is also used in frequency coordination. In other words, the radius serves as the "service radius" for that particular freq and the FAA will not assign the same freq to another RCAG or RTR in that service area unless it is a SELKEY facility. SELKEY means that the sector frequency exists at more than one RCAG, and the controller for the sector can Select the Key (transmit) site from their operating position in the Center. Kansas City Center Sector 53 (Vichy-Low) is an example of a SELKEY frequency since it can be selected to transmit from either St Louis, Maples or Richland, MO.
 

Lynch_Christopher

Member
Database Admin
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
831
Location
Winthrop, Ma
Those HF antennas are being removed, the one here at Memphis Center was removed this past summer. They were intended to be a backup data link between adjacent centers should the hard wire data connections be severed, but I guess they determined it would be less expensive (not to mention easier to maintain) by just installing redundant data lines.

Just as an FYI Boston Center in Nashua New Hampshire still has their HF Antennas. Not sure if they are in use though.

Great pictures by the way.
 

K4DHR

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
131
Location
Berryville, VA
Just as an FYI Boston Center in Nashua New Hampshire still has their HF Antennas. Not sure if they are in use though.

Great pictures by the way.

They're definitely out of service. Ours was removed in conjunction with some other construction (some of it still ongoing) was going on.
 

BigJimbo

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 23, 2003
Messages
212
Location
Dayton, Ohio
ok ok ok.....one last pic!

I stumbled upon this one last August. This is relatively new and is at the Highland County Airport, near Hillsboro, Ohio. I sat in the lot for awhile running search and close call, but never received anything. Some time back there were listings for a few other remote sites that seemed to be based at County Airports. I cant remember if it was here or on Freq. of Nature. This would belong to Indy Center.

Kinekep, thanks a lot for the work you've done....very cool.
 

Attachments

  • 0801001738.jpg
    0801001738.jpg
    78.6 KB · Views: 2,859

Lynch_Christopher

Member
Database Admin
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
831
Location
Winthrop, Ma
They're definitely out of service. Ours was removed in conjunction with some other construction (some of it still ongoing) was going on.

Thanks for the information. I guess I thought it was still in service so they could communicate with aircraft on HF frequencies if they needed too. What ARTCC do you work at if you don't mind me asking??
 

CalebATC

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
992
Location
Blairsville, Georgia
I envy the people who live in those houses or anyone living near a RCAG. Will try to get pictures of the Palm Beach Florida RCAG tomorrow .

It's very unlikely to live in a place where there is not at least one RCAG that you can hear.

With a good antenna setup you are almost guaranteed to get one. Now if you live in West Virginia or such with mountains, or in the dessert, you may not have too much luck!

You should be able to get at least one living in Florida, when I did, I would have some times where I would get ten every night during the spring and summer.

I usually get three here north of ATL, but sometimes I have gotten a lot more than that. I have yet to get any ATIS's or any approach frequencies from down in Atlanta. Hopefully I will get some in the spring or summer. There are some I get that are not good, but I get three consistently 5x9.
 

Hooligan

Member
Joined
May 15, 2002
Messages
1,311
Location
Clark County, Nevada
It would not be compromised at all. Coming out of Cheyenne Mountain are lots and lots of fiber optics that go to different AT&T locations throughout the US. From those CO's (Central Offices), they take different routes to the tower sites (back up systems - if say CYMTCO-SNFCCA route went down, it can be re-routed to say CYMTCO-DLLSTX-SNFCCA -CYMTCO is Cheyenne Mountain Colorado, SNFCCA is San Francisco California, DLLSTX is Dallas Texas). When the signal leaves CYMTCO, it is already encrypted so it will go over the HF/UHF frequency that way. Hope that make sense. I spent 31 years with AT&T helping install these pathways.

You may know a lot about AT&T circuits, but that knowledge/experience isn't translating to current NORAD radio communications familiarity.

Most of the NORAD comms heard aren't coming from Cheyenne Mountain, they're coming from one of the regional air defense sectors, for example McChord AFB ("BIG FOOT" & "DEER HUNTER"). Most of the comms are also non-secure mode, but some sites do have secure & HAVE QUICK capability (which is more of an ECCM mode than a 'secure' mode). The FAA RCAGs that have NORAD VHF & UHF GATRs have higher physical security provisions due to controlled cryptographic items inside. Despite your circuit dynamic re-routing info, the bottom-line, getting to what I think the guy was wondering about, is that yes, the sites are all pretty vulnerable to vandalism & hostile acts of sabotage. NORAD's back-up plan in the event of disruptions to their GATR sites is the use of Airborne Warning & Control System aircraft.


As far as I know, some key FAA sites still have HF capability as part of their back-up comms & National Security Emergency Preparedness +NCS/SHARES capabilities but mobile satellite system voice & data fixed, mobile & portable terminals are usually preferred.
 

b7spectra

EMS Dispatcher
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
3,143
Location
Cobb County, GA
Back in my day when I installed Private Line circuits, we ran quite a few out of CYMTCO to antenna sites around the US. Also did the lines for NEACP out of Offutt to various antenna sites as well. Only thing with the NEACP lines is we could only do work on them when they were changing planes (about a 30 minute window).

Current NORAD and others still have the hard wire out there, but they also have many different ways of communicating as well.
 

K4DHR

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
131
Location
Berryville, VA
Thanks for the information. I guess I thought it was still in service so they could communicate with aircraft on HF frequencies if they needed too. What ARTCC do you work at if you don't mind me asking??

ZME. Been here about a year and a half now and I'm about halfway through the training.

I asked about it when I got here and those beam antennas were never used for aircraft communications. There is enough redundancy in our VHF/UHF communications that things would have to go seriously wrong (oh, say someone cutting the landlines here!) where we couldn't talk to anyone.
 

BMT

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
1,122
We can all help Paul by sending him a list of RCAG's monitored.
I usually send him a monthly list.

BMT
 

Lynch_Christopher

Member
Database Admin
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
831
Location
Winthrop, Ma
Those HF antennas are being removed, the one here at Memphis Center was removed this past summer. They were intended to be a backup data link between adjacent centers should the hard wire data connections be severed, but I guess they determined it would be less expensive (not to mention easier to maintain) by just installing redundant data lines.

Driving past Boston Center this afternoon noticed that they took down the HF antenna towers and back in early May noticed that they took down one of the other radio towers and now only have one remaining.
 

K4DHR

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
131
Location
Berryville, VA
Driving past Boston Center this afternoon noticed that they took down the HF antenna towers and back in early May noticed that they took down one of the other radio towers and now only have one remaining.

Looks like they had another HF beam (aside from the log-periodic) and are probably just down to the microwave tower now. Even those are supposed to go away in the next 5-6 years.
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,522
Location
Your master site
Angels Camp (CA) RCO/RCAG:

DZvMN.jpg


The tower second from the left is unrelated. The omni near mid-point on the left-most is for C3. The rest are all V/UHF RX and TX. Mostly civilian but a few are Military. This is the "lower" site. There's also an upper farther up the road not much different but with less equipment.
 

Lynch_Christopher

Member
Database Admin
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
831
Location
Winthrop, Ma
Looks like they had another HF beam (aside from the log-periodic) and are probably just down to the microwave tower now. Even those are supposed to go away in the next 5-6 years.

Yeah currently they are just down to the microwave tower. That is interesting that the you said that the microwave tower will go away in the next 5-6 years. Does that mean that everything is going to over landlines such as fiber or be IP based?? You would think that they would want to keep the microwave as backup.
 

Lynch_Christopher

Member
Database Admin
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
831
Location
Winthrop, Ma
Here is picture of the RCAG at LaGuardia Airport. I think they house the approach control frequencies but not sure if the new clearance, ground control and tower frequencies have been put there as part of the new control tower project.
 

Attachments

  • LaGuardia RCAG (Five Towers).jpg
    LaGuardia RCAG (Five Towers).jpg
    45.2 KB · Views: 2,318
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top