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FUZZBUSTER

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Hey Gent's,I will be geting a 396xt, and putting in a base antenna about 20' up from ground, and only needing about 25' of coax, to go through the wall to the room, Question,...what size/grade of coax should I get, for the one time only "good to go" install, to power my Handheld for the best and long lasting "no need to upgrade" coax and connectors.......THX..

Gary.
 

n5ims

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Hey Gent's,I will be geting a 396xt, and putting in a base antenna about 20' up from ground, and only needing about 25' of coax, to go through the wall to the room, Question,...what size/grade of coax should I get, for the one time only "good to go" install, to power my Handheld for the best and long lasting "no need to upgrade" coax and connectors.......THX..

Gary.

You're missing some important details in your question, what frequency (just the band will suffice)? Coax that will do just fine on the VHF-Low band may have way too much loss for the 800 MHz band. What is your budget? You can get by using some RG-6, but if you spend more you'll have lower loss.

I'll assume that you'll want the worst-case situation, which is the 800 MHz band (it'll still do fine for the lower frequencies) and a moderate budget. I'll also throw in a few options so you can adjust based on the missing information.

First and foremost, use a quality name brand coax (Belden, Times, or Andrew are good). You may save a few bucks up front using some cheap and/or no-name coax, but you'll never really know what you're getting. It may be some very good stuff (a name brand produced for others to resale under their own brand) or some very poor quality junk - which you get depends more on who had the best price at the time than any other real factor. Don't just rely on price since folks may sell junk for top-dollar so it sounds like top-quality when it's really just way overpriced junk! See this thread (http://forums.radioreference.com/coax-cable-discussion/263871-coax-decision-wilson-vs-times.html) for a discussion on this topic.

Second, try to minimize the use of adapters. If you have a "custom made" cable, you can probably get different connectors on the ends to match what it will connect to (e.g. a PL-259 on the antenna end and a BNC on the scanner end). Premade cables generally have the same connector on each end so pick the one that matches one end (antenna end if possible) and use an adapter on the other end.

Third, use a coax loss calculator (like this one from a quick Google search - Coax Loss Calculator) to compare the various types to see what may work best for your situation. Go for the lowest loss you can afford, but don't sweat the absolute numbers too much. Although 3dB is "half your signal", this doesn't tell the real story since the amount of signal is only critical if it's below a minimum level or above what will overload your scanner's front end. If your signals are very weak, that extra dB may be important, but if they're only a bit weak you won't notice it.

Generally the larger the coax the better. Coax can be had from around 1/16" to 8" (perhaps even larger). The 1/16" will kill the signal if used beyond some short internal jumpers and that 8" stuff will provide good loss numbers for antennas on those 2000' TV broadcast towers. For most scanner folks, some 1/2" coax should do fine (e.g. RG-8 will be good, LMR-400 better, and LDF4-50A great). Note, I said RG-8 so don't confuse that very similarly named RG-8X, which is closer to RG-58 than it is to RG-8 as far as size and loss in the VHF & UHF frequencies (it's great for HF though!).

More specifics for your situation. Try to get some LMR-400 if you can. It's a bit stiff, but quite low loss and should do great for your 20 - 50 foot run. Keep the bends smooth and fairly large since it may crimp if bent to sharply (ruining that nice loss number).

You probably can even get by with some RG-6 since it's designed for low loss at most scanner frequencies. It also looks like standard Cable-TV stuff (it actually is) so visually it's a good choice as well. If you move you can leave it there as a "TV feed when the cable is out".
 

FUZZBUSTER

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uumm

Something to think about, I am just getting back into this, So I'm not sure if I am going to get goog RX at my pad or not, and not very up to speed on the VHF-UHF ,or 800 MHz you speak of But want to be abble to cover ALL of those option with having to go buy something else......Know what I mean.??, Not sure what the 396XT is going to pick up in my area with the Dept. around town, (haven't got much feed back on that yet), I was just wondering on anybody else out there that has already went through the same proccess setting up the close to same system, and found out certin thing that they have changed in getting the correct Coax,, And as of cost, I didn't have a clue on that until I found what was recommend, Then I will see what I can afford. For Me I have allways did a lot of research on items before I take the plunge, and buy it, same goest with my Pistols or Fishing equip..I will spen more for a very good product instead of having to do it over due to me being to cheap or cutting corners. And can you fill me in a little more about "overloading my front end" of my scanner, I don't want to burn it up (cost to D***n much)..What do I look for in doing so.?

Thanks...n5
Gary
 

popnokick

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As is often the case, this comes down to "What agency/dept/service do you want to listen to, or must you really be able to hear?" Why? Because your choice of antenna may be driven by that factor, e.g. if the PD in the next county is an absolute "must have" because your brother works there.... and they are on 800 mHz with a lower-level relative signal at your location.... you're going to need a good 800 mHz gain antenna that will likely be directional. And the coax cable quality is going to be imperative.
If you say, "I want to hear everything from 30 thru 1200 mHz with the best possible gain and coverage at every frequency in the range... and I only want to use one antenna." Unless you are capable of rewriting the laws of physics.... that antenna doesn't exist.
But since you didn't specify an agency/frequency you "must" hear, can we assume that "pretty good" reception from 30-1200 mHz will meet your requirement? And if that is your requirement, can a single antenna do that? Fortunately, the answer is yes. And the antennas are available to do that.
A couple of top-performing and popular "all-band" scanner antennas are the Antennacraft ST-2 and the DPD Productions Omni-X. There are MANY others.... look here in the RR Antenna Wiki:
Scanner Antennas - The RadioReference Wiki
 

FUZZBUSTER

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Thanks PoP, I will do some more research on this matter, Kudos on the recommeded antennas, I will keep asking these silly questions until I get a better grasp on the in's/out's of antenna Spec's
 

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You are on the right track! Thinking before putting an antenna system together you will end up with a much better outcome than putting it together piecemeal. Most good producers can offer a wide range of cable with any connectors you need to match whatever antenna you select.

If you are on a budget don't over look alternatives like a good quality RG-11, RG-213 or another cable combination that will work. There are tons of alternatives where you can stay with a name brand and still save some bucks. Good makes of US and European coax include Alpha, Andrew/Commscope, Coleman, Consolidated, Olympic, Times Fiber/Times Microwave/Amphenol, Beldan, Draka, Teldar, Suhner and a few others. Cisco, 3Com, and others have their cable made to spec in Taiwan and it is good. Chinese can be bad, depending... Any good seller can tell you exactly where their coax is made.
 

FUZZBUSTER

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I've been thinking on the lines of getting LMR-400, for my new base staition, I'm only gunna have a 25' run inside to the house, so my loss will be low recception,,(if i get the concept right), and I won't need to go with , LDF4-50a,.....Chime in if I'm off track...Thanks for walking a Noobee along this Learning curve...Can't wait to get to hearing some traffic...WhoHoo
 

FUZZBUSTER

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OHH. bye the way, I will be going with the connections of PL-259 to BNC on the handheld, premade from Kim, Hopefully, or will use a adapter..Chime in...I'm aWh**e for Input & Knowlege from the Smarty pants out there...HEHE..

Gary.
 

n5ims

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I've been thinking on the lines of getting LMR-400, for my new base staition, I'm only gunna have a 25' run inside to the house, so my loss will be low recception,,(if i get the concept right), and I won't need to go with , LDF4-50a,.....Chime in if I'm off track...Thanks for walking a Noobee along this Learning curve...Can't wait to get to hearing some traffic...WhoHoo

Sounds like you're on the right track. Yes, the LDF4-50A is great stuff, but for a 25' run you probably will never notice the difference in loss by going with LMR-400. As far as the coax goes, pick the highest frequency you need to use and select the coax that will perform there. Since coax loss per 100' of length gets worse as your frequency gets higher that should suit you well (this advice is mostly for later when you want to put up that tall tower since your choice of LMR-400 is a good one for the 25' run).
 

FUZZBUSTER

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Hey n5,what should I look for, when yo say the "highest frequency coax" to use that will perform there. Isn't LMR-400, one grade,or is you mean 5/8, 7/8, 1/2. OD..? Right..
 

n5ims

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That link I provided above for the Coax Loss Calculator. Several things go into what makes a coax have more loss or less loss as well as what frequency range it's designed to handle. Size is just one of these design factors.

For example, here's some loss numbers based on 900 MHz sent over 100' of the various types of coax:
1/2" coax types:
RG-8 (Belden 8237) - 6.914 dB loss.
RG-8 (Belden 9913) - 4.209 dB loss.
LMR-400 - 3.883 dB loss.
LMR4-50A - 2.101 dB loss.

As you can see, the same basic size coax has quite a variance in loss numbers. Even the two difference types of RG-8 are quite different (yes, they are different although both are actually RG-8). Some have a better shield, others may have different types of insulation between the center wire and outer shield, etc. etc. etc.

Some coax may be designed to perform best at the HF frequencies (basically below 30 MHz or so) while others are optimized for the higher frequency bands (perhaps 800 MHz of so). It's pretty hard to tell just by looking at them, but using the online calculators (good for beginners and experts alike) and digging into the manufacturer's specifications can yield some good information (not really a beginner's thing, but good to know for later).
 

FUZZBUSTER

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Holy crap-ohla, It just get's deeper..e5, what do you think I should go with...I know you are not the,I'm ;
a Cheap Date.kinda a Gent for info...(teach your self, rookie)....thanks for your Knowlege...e5.
 

n5ims

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Holy crap-ohla, It just get's deeper..e5, what do you think I should go with...I know you are not the,I'm ;
a Cheap Date.kinda a Gent for info...(teach your self, rookie)....thanks for your Knowlege...e5.

Based on what you've already posted I think that the LMR-400 should give you good performance. If you can get them to put a PL-259 on one end (antenna side) and a BNC on the other (scanner side) you should be good (that assumes your antenna will have the usual SO-239 connection - yes, the numbers don't match but the PL-259 connects to the SO-239. You'll get used to little things like this.) If not, have the PL-259 on both sides and get one of these for the scanner side --> BNC Male to UHF Female Adapter : 7420 <--
 

FUZZBUSTER

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that is the same thing I was going to do...Thanks for the help, I'm going to call that Kimberly Distrubution Co, That makes the complete set, and have her make me one,Due to I can't find a supplier out there with a resonable price..Unless you got someone in mind..
 

FUZZBUSTER

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well I just ordered a 28' LMR-400 with both connector custom made & shipped for $45 Clams, OTD
from Kimberly and Sylvia.....WOWO
 
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