What's going on with 2m?

[902]

Years ago (like 1979) there was a 2 meter club in the NYC area that was more of a social thing than not. Things were different then, and ham radio was THE social media - people would be on the air all hours of the day and night talking about... nothing. Just killing time on the way to work or home, or while watching TV or ???. But the club meeting was usually the highlight of the month. It was held in a firehouse's rented hall and would usually be packed. The business meeting was rushed through. There really wasn't much business, the club ran like a benevolent autocracy... the technical stuff was really done by one guy and a "committee" helped when it was needed; dues mostly paid for personal autopatch and the hall rental. IDs which let people have their own mobile phones... a big deal back then. There was entertainment afterwards. The group included a few hams who were prominent musicians and entertainers from back in the day and there were both old and young people in the bunch. Sometimes it was really funny, other times it was educational. The group used to organize barbecues, trips to wineries, etc. Needless to say, the whole thing was about socialization with the various weird people you'd meet on the air (there was probably a bigger cross-section of weirdness in that late-70s Jimmy Carter AOR/disco era than there is today) and not necessarily the technology. In fact, the repeater was always this "mysterious black box" that looked like it occupied an entire room (there was a picture of the repeater trustee/club president pressing buttons on a mainframe platter hard drive titled "working on the repeater"... the real repeater was just a filing cabinet-sized box with a duplexer bolted to it). Having good coverage just attracted more characters. I wish everyone had a chance to experience that kind of group.

 

[WB4CS]

So you never say "QSO" on 2 meters?

Generally, no, but I'm sure I've said it more than a few times. I don't see a need to say to someone on voice, "Thanks for the QSO" when I can just as easily say "Thanks for the conversation." Same thing with QSL, on FM voice there's no need to say QSL (I acknowledge receipt) when I can just say "Yes/Correct."

The "official" meaning of QSO is "Can you/I can communicate with station directly" as with many Q-Signals they are no longer used for their original Morse Code purpose and are instead treated more like an Amateur Radio version of 10-Codes on voice. When speaking, especially locally on FM, there's no need for Q-signals.

Now there are some Q-signals that are relevant on voice and even 2 meter FM, such as QSY, QTH, QRM, QRT, and even QSB. While they are relevant, they're not necessary. (In my opinion, your mileage may vary.)

 

[WB4CS]

Years ago (like 1979) there was a 2 meter club in the NYC area that was more of a social thing than not. Things were different then, and ham radio was THE social media - people would be on the air all hours of the day and night talking about... nothing. Just killing time on the way to work or home, or while watching TV or ???. But the club meeting was usually the highlight of the month. It was held in a firehouse's rented hall and would usually be packed. The business meeting was rushed through. There really wasn't much business, the club ran like a benevolent autocracy... the technical stuff was really done by one guy and a "committee" helped when it was needed; dues mostly paid for personal autopatch and the hall rental. IDs which let people have their own mobile phones... a big deal back then. There was entertainment afterwards. The group included a few hams who were prominent musicians and entertainers from back in the day and there were both old and young people in the bunch. Sometimes it was really funny, other times it was educational. The group used to organize barbecues, trips to wineries, etc. Needless to say, the whole thing was about socialization with the various weird people you'd meet on the air (there was probably a bigger cross-section of weirdness in that late-70s Jimmy Carter AOR/disco era than there is today) and not necessarily the technology. In fact, the repeater was always this "mysterious black box" that looked like it occupied an entire room (there was a picture of the repeater trustee/club president pressing buttons on a mainframe platter hard drive titled "working on the repeater"... the real repeater was just a filing cabinet-sized box with a duplexer bolted to it). Having good coverage just attracted more characters. I wish everyone had a chance to experience that kind of group.

Good story, good times I'm sure!

I remember when I first got on the air there was a group of hams in the area that didn't have your typical conversations about medical conditions or what kind of radio they had. It was a group of about 5 people who actually had intelligent and friendly debates about all kinds of topics from politics, religion, history and science. Sadly, every repeater they operated on they were ran off by the repeater owners because their conversations were lengthy, full of debate, and often offended someone's beliefs or political affiliations. The group tried to use 2 meter simplex but couldn't maintain contact due to the distance between stations. I believe they eventually moved to another band but at the time I only had 2 meters and couldn't follow them. By the time I upgraded and got more equipment I never heard from them again. I really enjoyed those late night conversations!

 

[902]

Good story, good times I'm sure!

I remember when I first got on the air there was a group of hams in the area that didn't have your typical conversations about medical conditions or what kind of radio they had. It was a group of about 5 people who actually had intelligent and friendly debates about all kinds of topics from politics, religion, history and science. Sadly, every repeater they operated on they were ran off by the repeater owners because their conversations were lengthy, full of debate, and often offended someone's beliefs or political affiliations. The group tried to use 2 meter simplex but couldn't maintain contact due to the distance between stations. I believe they eventually moved to another band but at the time I only had 2 meters and couldn't follow them. By the time I upgraded and got more equipment I never heard from them again. I really enjoyed those late night conversations!

As a repeater owner, I ran the kind of repeater one could have those kinds of conversations over. I encouraged it and ran off the "fine business" guys if they kept acting like they used too much starch. Made a lot of new and lasting friends that way. We were politically incorrect, edgy, and sometimes pushed it to the limits, but never really did cross the line to being overtly offensive. We were mostly goofing on each other. For example, one of our guys was a ladies' man who seemed to be the first one of us to have children. If you listened to his accounts of his adventures, quite a few, actually. So we were planning to rent him the Pope-mobile so he could drive up and down the street in his neighborhood on Fathers' Day to wave at all his adoring children (who are all adults now... even the ones we don't know about ). If anyone ever tried to do that to someone who wasn't his friend, I suppose it would be pretty offensive, but he could barely contain himself.

Sadly, all of my "crew" has moved away to various parts, myself included, and some (including my Pope-mobile friend) died young.

Back then, those were conversations between friends who happened to have ham licenses and were using ham radio as a medium. That might be the missing element everyone seems to be looking for. If you're not a friend in real life, conversation will be pretty much sterile and stay within "safe territory." Everyone kept their licenses after we went our separate ways, but I don't think any of us really uses amateur radio the way we did when we were in our twenties anymore.

 

[Jimru]

None of us does anything like we did in our twenties!

 

[AC2OY]

As a repeater owner, I ran the kind of repeater one could have those kinds of conversations over. I encouraged it and ran off the "fine business" guys if they kept acting like they used too much starch. Made a lot of new and lasting friends that way. We were politically incorrect, edgy, and sometimes pushed it to the limits, but never really did cross the line to being overtly offensive. We were mostly goofing on each other. For example, one of our guys was a ladies' man who seemed to be the first one of us to have children. If you listened to his accounts of his adventures, quite a few, actually. So we were planning to rent him the Pope-mobile so he could drive up and down the street in his neighborhood on Fathers' Day to wave at all his adoring children (who are all adults now... even the ones we don't know about ). If anyone ever tried to do that to someone who wasn't his friend, I suppose it would be pretty offensive, but he could barely contain himself.

Sadly, all of my "crew" has moved away to various parts, myself included, and some (including my Pope-mobile friend) died young.

Back then, those were conversations between friends who happened to have ham licenses and were using ham radio as a medium. That might be the missing element everyone seems to be looking for. If you're not a friend in real life, conversation will be pretty much sterile and stay within "safe territory." Everyone kept their licenses after we went our separate ways, but I don't think any of us really uses amateur radio the way we did when we were in our twenties anymore.

You guys must have a had a blast!!! My kind of a crowd!!!!!

 

[902]

You guys must have a had a blast!!! My kind of a crowd!!!!!

Yeah, you would've liked them. They would have liked you, too. My friend bought a house literally up the road from you in Nutley before he died. You guys could have worked simplex without an antenna on your radio! Funny how that all works.

 

[AC2OY]

Wow small world I wonder if he was in the club I'm in...Nutley Amateur Radio Society(NARS)!!! They have been there for only 70 years...LOL!!

 

[AgentCOPP1]

902, I really wish my friends were into ham radio like yours were. I'm 17 so obviously most of my friends are more concerned with video games and Tweeting superficial crap. I have one friend who's a ham but he never gets on the air. I also have another who seems slightly interested in it but he has a reputation for never finishing what he starts, so I doubt that he'll get his license. My local 2 meter repeater is pretty quiet but the people who do get on are all decades older than me. The generation gap is so extreme that it's hard to find a subject that can get us both exited like you and your friends. I might try to convince others to get their license, but I doubt that I'll be very successful. I can hear them say it now, "but cell phones do the same thing."

 

[LtDoc]

... tell them there's no monthly fee for ham radio like there is for a cell phone. And no data limits.
- 'Doc

 

[TheSpaceMan]

None of us does anything like we did in our twenties!

Unless we have the money for it!

 

[Jimru]

Unless we have the money for it!

Egg-zactly. Pay somebody else to do it!

 

[AC2OY]

902, I really wish my friends were into ham radio like yours were. I'm 17 so obviously most of my friends are more concerned with video games and Tweeting superficial crap. I have one friend who's a ham but he never gets on the air. I also have another who seems slightly interested in it but he has a reputation for never finishing what he starts, so I doubt that he'll get his license. My local 2 meter repeater is pretty quiet but the people who do get on are all decades older than me. The generation gap is so extreme that it's hard to find a subject that can get us both exited like you and your friends. I might try to convince others to get their license, but I doubt that I'll be very successful. I can hear them say it now, "but cell phones do the same thing."

You can't start your club!!!!! I wish I was into this at 17 or had the funds!!!!

 

[wrktam]

Same story Grumpy, here in Central, Florida! I commute to work from Kennedy Space Center, Fla, to Orlando daily & VHF is comprised by 4 or 5 morning commuters who disappear after arriving at work.
UHF, HAM is devoid of anyone! I purchased a new DUAL BANDER in 2012 & it keys up 4 local UHF machines, but no one ever says a word.
I enjoy listening to HAM chatter during the long drive, even if I never say a word.
It sure beats listening to local broadcast (AM-FM) radio, which is nothing but sleazy commercials with some jerk repeating a 1-800 numbers all day long.
I agree: Where did everyone go??

 

[wrktam]

wrktam

Speaking of Brevard County, Florida:

Been listening to local feed for approx 1 year from the COCOA BEACH feed under "BREVARD COUNTY" and can't figure out why a "beeping" sound comes on at 0500 each morning.
It occurs only on the COCOA BEACH feed which also provides local Sheriffs department audio.
I live in the same county & NEVER hear the beeping on my scanner, despite living only 12 miles from COCOA BEACH.
The beeping never happens on any other BREVARD COUNTY feed, only the one listed as Cocoa Beach, + Brevard County Fire.
Is this perhaps a time hack? My UNIDEN SCANNER does not have that option.
The beeping stops each day at approx 0600. ????
Just wonderin' why. lol

 

[pgnsucks]

My local 2 meter repeater is pretty quiet but the people who do get on are all decades older than me. The generation gap is so extreme that it's hard to find a subject that can get us both exited like you and your friends. I might try to convince others to get their license, but I doubt that I'll be very successful. I can hear them say it now, "but cell phones do the same thing."

I'm decades older than you but I love talking to younger people to get their opinions/perspectives. As well as getting a better understanding of various generations lifestyles, dreams & aspirations there is always something to talk about.

"but cell phones do the same thing."

Yea until a hurricane or a terrorist event like Boston then their fancy phones will not be so neat. I think it's Great you are just not following the current herd and are doing your part to keep an extremely important aspect of or way of life alive and well.

Now I will step down off of my soapbox please excuse the interruption

 

[k3cfc]

Kids today lack the intelligences to do anything that requires some reading then understand what they read. then there is the test. i can hear it now A TEST OH NO.

Ham radio is not for every one.

K3CFC

 

[902]

Kids are as smart as we were their age, they're just interested in different things. I proved that smart thing for myself when my older daughter earned her Extra while she was in the 8th grade. She got a challenge and she learned things to meet that challenge.

What's happening, though, is that the educational system isn't making them apply their knowledge. With 3 remaining still in school, school teaches them to take tests that bring their stats up. Those stats are linked to money, and everyone feels the push. No wonder we're slipping from our position as a global leader. We (collectively) fail to apply our children and bring whatever is being learned (or more appropriately, memorized) for standardized testing to practical use. It's not about being excellent. It's not about leadership. It's about eeking the most out of the achievement tests. Period. Then young adults come here from Zanzibar and they end up being CEOs or rock stars (look at Freddie Mercury, but that was the U.K.). Protip: it's NOT our kids, it's US.

AgentCOPP1, my friends and I have over 30 years on you and your friends. You are my older son's age. I can say that if you push your friends too hard, you'll drive them away from the hobby, and they'll probably think you are crazy. But it's true, event after event, from the World Trade Center to Boston with Katrina in between, cellphones go away when something goes wrong. It doesn't even have to fail to go away. If 50,000 people competing for 1,000 available resources, a lot of people aren't going to get through. That's how it works. And, ham radio is a pay once thing. You get it, and no recurring bills, no phone cards (my guys don't get a subscription phone, I got them pay-as-you-go, I think cellphone "plans" are nothing more than slick-talker fraud and contract gotchas).

The other thing that cellphones suck at doing is one-to-many calls. Say you want to get together after school. Now you have to text each other with plans. That takes a while. Get on the radio and you have contact with everyone. If someone has a better idea or wants to do something different, that is communicated to the group more effectively.

One last thought: if you guys are like my kids, you text more than talk. Look at my message. Do you think I'd cut it texting? It takes a lot to express yourself fully. When you compress your message down (and each iteration of technology has resulted in compression of content), you lose meaning and a lot is left to interpretation. Have you gotten into a text-fight yet? From a one word text? One-to-many voice communication cuts much of the potential misunderstandings that go with this compression of content.

Don't sweat them. If they're genuinely interested, they'll come along at their own pace.

 

[rapidcharger]

So here's an idea... I'm just thinking out loud here... I'm sure this has already been tried many times but maybe not.

How about all the people complaining about how dead the bands are (yes, that includes me) that would like to see more laid back and general interest topics of conversation as described in replies #141 and 144 (rather than the "fine business", "hi hi OM" and endless talk about HF and colonoscopies and without repeating everyone in the group's call signs including your own at the beginning and end of every single transmission that everyone makes) we cooperatively set up and get parked on an Echolink conference server or IRLP reflector or set up a digital talk group. In a country with over 300 million people, surely we can manage to scrape up 5 or 6 or maybe 10 people so no matter where you are, there's someone to talk to.

We may not have the kind of club or personal contact that 902 had (and that many others have had back in the day) but as we're finding out here in my area where a handful of us who are on the air a lot, sometimes for hours each day... and sometimes until smoke starts pouring out of our radios, talking about everything under the sun including some of the more taboo subjects such as politics and occasionally religion (or lack thereof) is that scanner listeners who stumble on to us that would otherwise skip over the dead air or conversation that didn't captivate their interest and they get their ticket and they get some gear and they make an effort to become good hams and not lids. And there's also folks that have been hams for decades that have lost interest in the hobby for a while that dust off their radios and hear some people talking that doesn't put them to sleep and they become regulars on the repeater.

I know everyone is quick to blame the younger generation and their smartphones and ipads and facebook and blah blah blah. But I'm hearing the younger hams and the not-so-young hams that are NEW hams. I'm not hearing the older (not old but oldER) existing hams that I used to. About once every 2-3 months, I'm somebody's first contact. Do you know how often that in an area with over 5 million inhabitants and passers-through and visitors in the hundreds of thousands daily, that our little group are the only people talking on the ham bands? And when an obviously new ham tries to make their first contact and my radio is on scan and I hear them trying to make a contact on every repeater in town on both 2m and 440 and nobody comes back to them? The new hams are still coming. Where did everyone else go?

 

[WB4CS]

So here's an idea... I'm just thinking out loud here... I'm sure this has already been tried many times but maybe not.

Some good ideas in there!

we cooperatively set up and get parked on an Echolink conference server or IRLP reflector or set up a digital talk group.

You know IRLP isn't "real" ham radio! Kidding, that subject has been beaten to death

and sometimes until smoke starts pouring out of our radios, talking about everything under the sun including some of the more taboo subjects such as politics and occasionally religion (or lack thereof) is that scanner listeners who stumble on to us that would otherwise skip over the dead air or conversation that didn't captivate their interest and they get their ticket and they get some gear and they make an effort to become good hams and not lids.

That's exactly how I got into ham radio. Listening to a scanner and found a frequency at 147.200 MHz that had some interesting conversation on it. Then found another at 145.110 with even more interesting conversation. I wanted to get on there and talk so badly but didn't know how! Finally one day, one of the guys gave out his phone number on the air and asked the other guy to call him. I jotted down the number, waited a while, took a deep breath, and called the guy up. I asked, "How can I get on the radio with you guys?" He told me to pick up a study manual, and here we are

And when an obviously new ham tries to make their first contact and my radio is on scan and I hear them trying to make a contact on every repeater in town on both 2m and 440 and nobody comes back to them?

Yeah, I've seen that happen a lot around my area. Unfortunately repeaters can become "click-ish" and if you're not known to the others, you're not heard. I really hate that, so I did two things. I got off of the click-ish repeater and make a huge effort to introduce myself on the air to everyone I hear. The repeater I moved to at first was only regularly used by 2 guys that used it to chat during their work commutes. Now we've got about 6 regular users of the repeater. I keep a radio on that repeater as much as possible and if I hear anyone new come on I try to get back to them and at least introduce myself and give them the info of the other regulars of the repeater. It's a slow process, but that's one way to get 2 meters more active is to force it to happen, one ham at a time.