So if I'm driving to work in the far edge of the warning, where skies may be clear, I get arrested? Again, I think you guys are missing out on some common sense reasons why this wouldn't work. You cannot have an automatic state of emergency declared no matter what.
What's with all the whackers?
- Thread starter sparks40
- Start date
- Status
fourthhorseman
Member
Last edited:
They do now - don't they?
No. There are no states of emergencies automatically tied to tornado warnings. People cannot be arrested or fined or cited for being on the roadways in a tornado warning.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
Yes it would and it has. As I said, it happens all of the time in NY, especially during winter storms. The local Sheriff has the authority to close all roads in a county simultaneously.
Maybe the state law is different in Michigan, but there is nothing that would even raise a federal issue in what NY does because the USSC has stated that the states have total authority over highway safety within their borders.
BTW, everybody should have an all-hazards warning receiver (commonly known as a weather alert receiver), which is used to receive EAS messages relayed by NWS.
Okay...I don't normally reply to these kinds of discussions, but this one I have to.
There was never any "shelter in place" order or request in Boston or Cambridge/Watertown. That was a spin the major network media morons put on a statement from Boston PD and MSP that reminded residents and visitors that there were two alleged terrorists cornered, and running around heavily armed and possibly with more explosives. Probably not a BRILLIANT idea to go out. After all, they'd killed a cop, and had a gunfight with grenades and a pressure cooker bomb thrown at police on a residential street! Truth? People were in fact out on the streets, though not in normal masses.
Secondly, that photo fourthhorseman posted...dude, they had those two jacka$$es cornered and they knew it. They had no where to go. Of course they're gonna go armed, and armored up and down every street looking for two guys who just committed a terrorist act on American soil. And last time I checked...IT WORKED. One's dead, the other is going on trial.
So can we stay on topic and try not to compare a bunch of anti-American, civilian killing radical terrorists to pseudo-suicidal storm chasers? That's pretty low, and there's BIG difference.
The moderators should close this thread just for those comments.
BOSTON STRONG! Period.
(OFF Soapbox)
Last edited:
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
That's what an all-hazards warning receiver is for. Everybody should have one, especially in disaster-prone areas.
Maybe Michigan law is different, but we can and do shut down entire counties routinely in New York and it is perfectly legal. The Sheriff of each county is the highest ranking law enforcement officer and has the authority to close all roads simultaneously.
There is no federal issue, either. The USSC has stated that states have ultimate authority over highway and traffic safety within their own borders.
That's different from EAS.
Interesting... I saw one NY county's emergency section and it says the highest ranking elected official has that authority (County Chairman.) The two other counties I saw declare in the past had that come from the County Executive or Chair too. Are you sure it's done by your sheriff?
http://www.lewiscountyny.org/conten...eld=documents;/content/Documents/File/452.pdf
I _guarantee_ you that if you start fining, citing, and/or arresting people simply for driving in the same county as a tornado warning, it will become a federal issue very quickly (that's assuming the state court wouldn't throw it out first.)
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
a whacker is not what one is...it is what one wants others to THINK that they are.
Legitimate trained (by NOAA) storm spotters who stay out of harms' way and relay critical information on a storm's path to NOAA, public safety and media to get the word out are a valuable resource. They also know their place, don't run around in "chase vehicles" with emergency lighting equipment and video cameras, and certainly don't run into the path of danger.
Weather whackers are no different than other ambulance chasers, wanna-be cops, Randy Rescue types who justify their whackersim, illegal lighting and sirens, radios and other mantra as being part of some entities that clearly don't exist, just to get a rise in their Levi's from running code into harm's way to do nothing more than JAFO and gawk at destruction, often taking video of themselves in the process- acting as if they are trained meteorologists, usually standing around holding their EF Johnson's and camera phones while nearby victims are helpless in the rubble.
Then you have the professional weather whackers who are often employed by tabloid media outlets, who run directly into the storm path to get video to sell. Like the amateur weather whackers above, they often have adrenaline rushes and feel the need to run their lights and sirens, and JAFO, but they at least get paid for it.
Both of the whackers are in my opinion, sick individuals- as far as outlawing it? retarded. It's already a crime in most states to interfere with official public safety when they are working scenes, or give lawful orders for one to disperse. Many of these whackers, both amateur and professional, avoid this because police, fire and EMS often have their hands full dealing with what is going on to mess with these turds unless they really make a stink. Or they are doing what other sensible people are and getting out of harms' way.
I look at it this way, if Randy Rescue wants to JAFO and be the idiot who gets to feel what it's like inside of a stump grinder- have at it. But it's another thing when they block means of egress with their whackermobiles. This is when Johnny Law should lock them up and transport them to their nearest mental health facility (if it hasn't blown down) for evaluation.
Legitimate trained (by NOAA) storm spotters who stay out of harms' way and relay critical information on a storm's path to NOAA, public safety and media to get the word out are a valuable resource. They also know their place, don't run around in "chase vehicles" with emergency lighting equipment and video cameras, and certainly don't run into the path of danger.
Weather whackers are no different than other ambulance chasers, wanna-be cops, Randy Rescue types who justify their whackersim, illegal lighting and sirens, radios and other mantra as being part of some entities that clearly don't exist, just to get a rise in their Levi's from running code into harm's way to do nothing more than JAFO and gawk at destruction, often taking video of themselves in the process- acting as if they are trained meteorologists, usually standing around holding their EF Johnson's and camera phones while nearby victims are helpless in the rubble.
Then you have the professional weather whackers who are often employed by tabloid media outlets, who run directly into the storm path to get video to sell. Like the amateur weather whackers above, they often have adrenaline rushes and feel the need to run their lights and sirens, and JAFO, but they at least get paid for it.
Both of the whackers are in my opinion, sick individuals- as far as outlawing it? retarded. It's already a crime in most states to interfere with official public safety when they are working scenes, or give lawful orders for one to disperse. Many of these whackers, both amateur and professional, avoid this because police, fire and EMS often have their hands full dealing with what is going on to mess with these turds unless they really make a stink. Or they are doing what other sensible people are and getting out of harms' way.
I look at it this way, if Randy Rescue wants to JAFO and be the idiot who gets to feel what it's like inside of a stump grinder- have at it. But it's another thing when they block means of egress with their whackermobiles. This is when Johnny Law should lock them up and transport them to their nearest mental health facility (if it hasn't blown down) for evaluation.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
You are the champion nitpicker on RR Forums. All-hazards radios are how EAS messages get to the general public when traditional broadcast routes don't do the job.
Anecdotal evidence from one county proves very litte. (NY has 62 and they all have varying rules.) The sheriffs here are also elected officials. A sheriff is wise to consult with others before making a determination, but the orders are cited to the county sheriffs when promulgated via news media.
Your guarantee is worthless because your underlying assumptions are false.
Some of us actually do know what we are talking about.
Again, I applaud you for your efforts but that is not true. EAS messages are carried via EAS channels. NWR is not an EAS channel. NWR is an EAS originator. Some agencies established relationships with the NWS to send text messages through the NOAA system, but that's still not EAS. If your local emergency management office sends out an alert through EAS only, it will not be on the weather radio.
But since you don't believe the person who actually sends EAS messages, and integrates them with the NWS feed, I'd suggest asking your local NWS office and ask them if NWR carries all EAS messages.
Actually I found three before calling it good. Just searching now I found one more, then voila! You're in Albany County, right?
McCoy Declares State of Emergency in Albany County
(Hint, when you click the link, it's not going to say the sheriff declared the state of emergency. It's going to say the highest ranking elected official.)
Well, again, since declaring a state of emergency is related to my job, and as we've shown above you don't even know how it's done in your county, I guess we know whose assumptions are false!
Yes I do.
My fault - I thought you were in Albany. My fault.
So let's look at Saratoga County:
http://www.cliftonpark.org/pdf/State of Emergency.pdf
Ugh. Same outcome. No sheriff's signature!
So let's look at Saratoga County:
http://www.cliftonpark.org/pdf/State of Emergency.pdf
Ugh. Same outcome. No sheriff's signature!
To wrap this up and get back on topic - I see no way of a state of emergency being enacted for tornado warnings automatically. I see no way that people simply driving on the roads and obeying all traffic laws, and not impeding emergency response, can be ticketed, fined, or arrested simply because they are in an area under a warning.
You apparently do feel this is coming.
I guess we'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, it looks like my vantage point matches reality much more than yours, as even in areas where people have mentioned "criminalizing" storm chasing nothing like this has been proposed.
You apparently do feel this is coming.
I guess we'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, it looks like my vantage point matches reality much more than yours, as even in areas where people have mentioned "criminalizing" storm chasing nothing like this has been proposed.
You can't legislate against lack of judgement, which is basically the cause of the deaths being discussed. You can educate to reduce the likeliness of that lack of judgement, and that -has- and is being done. It isn't fool proof, won't stop goofs completely since it still depends on individual judgement, but should help. I think it would be a very safe bet that the ones who died would say that they '****** up', that they knew better...
- 'Doc
- 'Doc
Confuzzled
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 704
Local officials in each county could easily establish policy to initiate a Sate Of Emergency upon issuance of Tornado Warnings Have the forms printed up and ready to go, needing only the date/times and signature of whatever official is authorized to make the declaration, then immediately disseminated to TV and radio broadcast facilities and other local warning/notification systems.
I'd suggest you look up the legal requirements of a state of emergency... That wouldn't pass the test.
Plus you're going to do the whole county, even though the storm may only hit a small corner while blue skies cover the rest? See how that works out for ya
Plus you're going to do the whole county, even though the storm may only hit a small corner while blue skies cover the rest? See how that works out for ya
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
Legal requirements in Michigan are not binding in any other state.
It is a state-level matter. The federal constitution does not intervene.
I do know Constitutional law very well.
It is a state-level matter. The federal constitution does not intervene.
I do know Constitutional law very well.
Confuzzled
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 704
I think the inference was that someone may file a Federal lawsuit if they were stopped for reasons they didn't agree with. I'm not su5re any such suit would get very far if filed by a Chaser whining about being stopped in or turned away from a storm zone.
But would matter if you arrested a guy driving to work in the state of emergency.
- Status
