When should USB become the standard interface to PC?

[N_Jay]

Re: Firewire

How about firewire.

I think firewire will eventually replace USB. In fact, most camcorders, digital cameras, and other electronics are going firewire.

It is also much faster than USB. It is also a small connection.

I doubt it.

FireWire is realy only popular with video equipment (and MAC stuff).
USB has a bigger corporate and standards following then fire wire.

There are smaller USB connectors also.

 

[JnglMassiv]

The big advantage in Firewire (IEEE-1394) is the fast data rate. Much of this advantage went away when USB2 was introduced (Firewire can still be little faster). SInce the files transfered to a scanner are pretty small, there's really no need to go to Firewire. It doesn't seem to be catching on with lower speed peripherals like keyboards, printers, card readers, etc.

My true rationale: my laptop doesn't have a Firewire port

 

[lgentle]

I agree that Firewire won't become the standard for true Plug-N-Play equipment and devices. USB has taken hold of that and isn't going to let go. Although, Firewire is faster:

USB 2.0: 480 Mbit
1394b: 800 MBit

 

[Caesar]

Serial should die like the 5.25" floppy has.
20% [ 13 ]

State-of-the-art scanners deserve a state-of-the-art connection: USB is what I want.

those two should be combined i totaly agree with both, but had to go with the first of the two, b/c i'd like to see everything usb not just scanners.

 

[Al42]

Forcing someone with a perfectly good computer with RS-232 ports to buy a USB interface when he buys a new scanner is rediculous. So is forcing someone with a perfectly good (and state of the art) laptop to buy a USB->serial converter.

The scanner should have both options, either 2 connectors on the scanner, or 2 pigtails on the cable. The actual USB chip would add negligible cost to the RS-232 (if we accept that the current interfaces qualify for that name) interface in either configuration.

 

[N_Jay]

Forcing someone with a perfectly good computer with RS-232 ports to buy a USB interface when he buys a new scanner is rediculous. So is forcing someone with a perfectly good (and state of the art) laptop to buy a USB->serial converter.

The scanner should have both options, either 2 connectors on the scanner, or 2 pigtails on the cable. The actual USB chip would add negligible cost to the RS-232 (if we accept that the current interfaces qualify for that name) interface in either configuration.

Dual function ports are not that hard to design.

Look at a common, USB/PS2 mouse.

 

[VegasCorbin]

...I do not know of any vendor that sells "make your own" USB connector kits. This is very important. The ability to create your own custom cables to the lengths you desire is somethign USB does not offer. ..

There is a company that offers USB connectors so you can "Make Your Own" cables.

L-Com
http://www.l-com.com/

They carry a lot of inerconnect stuff.

 

[Al42]

Dual function ports are not that hard to design.

Look at a common, USB/PS2 mouse.

I was actually looking at my iPaq serial/USB dock when I was writing my post.

 

[Voyager]

Re: Firewire

How about firewire.

I think firewire will eventually replace USB. In fact, most camcorders, digital cameras, and other electronics are going firewire.

It is also much faster than USB. It is also a small connection.

I thought FireWire was dead already.

Faster or not doesn't matter. Better or not doesn't matter. Just ask Sony who had a better video Cassette Recorder. Beta was clearly better than VHS. Yet, VHS beat it out in sales.

I would agree with the dual support. I don't agree that you should force a standard out just because it's older than another standard. There are many devices that require a REAL serial port and won't work with USB.

As much as I'm opposed to replacing the serial port option, I would welcome a USB option IN ADDITION TO the serial option.

Now, let's create a poll to guage how stupid polls are. You sample a miniscule percentage of a community, and from that sample you know how the majority feels? :roll:

Besides, selections like "State-of-the-art scanners deserve a state-of-the-art connection: USB is what I want." and "Serial should die like the 5.25" floppy has." throw off any credibility a poll has. A poll should not be biased toward one outcome to be accurate or fair.

Here is a poll for you:

O Polls are stupid
O Polls are not smart

Select one.

Joe M.

 

[bsavery]

C - All of the above!

:lol:

Bob

 

[PhilJSmith67]

I agree with N_Jay's example of the USB/PS2 mouse.

The electronics for USB with Serial are not costly anymore. If I can pick up a 5-port USB card for a PC for $13, I can't imagine that USB 2.0 chip costing more than a buck, tops. The cost for serial truly is negligible. The most costly part of providing both interface on a scanner is most likely related to having two physical connectors on scanner instead of one. That can't be a big deal.

 

[br0adband]

If the poll was based on generalities then sure, all polls would be stupid. But the specifics were there for a reason, and "all of the above" just wasn't cutting it.

Besides, you can't ask every single scanner owner on Earth the same question at the same time, hence sampling polls.

Paul

 

[Voyager]

If the poll was based on generalities then sure, all polls would be stupid. But the specifics were there for a reason, and "all of the above" just wasn't cutting it.

Besides, you can't ask every single scanner owner on Earth the same question at the same time, hence sampling polls.

Paul

Well, how about more fair wording, such as:

New scanners should support:

O Serial
O USB
O FireWire
O Serial and USB
O Serial and FireWire
O USB and FireWire
O All three

rather than the leading selections you have?

Even so, you might get 2% of the board users, so you're really not getting a good sample.

But again, adding commentary on polls such as comparing serial to 5 1/4" floppies is naturally going to skew your result. Your mind is made up already, so why have a poll that is skewed to result in your desired outcome? THAT'S what is making it meaningless and without credibility. A true poll should not provide biased selections. (see my example above - there is no commentary on any of the selections, and it provides for three technologies, not just two, yet there are only two more selections and all combinations are provided for.)

Using my previous example (or a modification of it):

O Polls are stupid
O I'm such an idiot, I think polls are smart

What do YOU think will receive more votes? 8)

Joe M.

 

[Caesar]

not to know of prevoius posters post, but what state of the arm laptop does not have a usb port? my friend has old 700mhz dell laptops with usb...but i think it would be worth the effort for scanners to adapt to newer connections, like USB and for those who prefer to not adapt with new tech to use adapters.

i don't even really have new equipment, but my usb items include:
back-up battery supply
Wireless Keyboard/Mouse
Printer
Digital Camera
External HD
Thumb Drive and so on...

the way things are moving to usb it would make sense for scanners to as well, and i wouldn't want an EXTRA port on the scanner either,though i would handle it if it meant i got usb. But espcially being able to get 5 port or more usb hubs and such make it so easy...

but anyway, just my thoughts...

 

[RyanXTS]

...I do not know of any vendor that sells "make your own" USB connector kits. This is very important. The ability to create your own custom cables to the lengths you desire is somethign USB does not offer. ..

There is a company that offers USB connectors so you can "Make Your Own" cables.

L-Com
http://www.l-com.com/

They carry a lot of inerconnect stuff.

Wow, thanks for that information!

 

[Al42]

Well, how about more fair wording, such as:

New scanners should support:

O Serial
O USB
O FireWire
O Serial and USB
O Serial and FireWire
O USB and FireWire
O All three

Firewire is a high speed interface (faster than real-time NTSB video). Scanners will never need more than 20k or so at most, so USB and RS-232C are sufficient (only because some computers have only one of them) unless we start decoding high speed data from scanners. (And even then, USB 2.0 would probably be more than fast enough to last for a few decades).

Unless it's really important to program your entire scanner at sub-second speeds.

 

[br0adband]

USB was designed from the start as a high speed interface for consumers to use as interconnect technology for a whole slew of devices. Firewire was never designed for anything but video really. I know that doesn't say much but think about it: the only purpose anyone would need 400Mbps from a device would be video footage since DVD quality video at 720x480 true color (meaning 24 bits per pixel) requires almost 32MB/s of bandwidth.

USB came about to create a new type of device interconnect to do away with parallel and serial once and for all, and USB 2.0 was created to compete with Firewire. Even though USB 2.0 is theoretically faster by 80Mbps, it doesn't quite live up to its claims. Firewire is still faster on throughput since it doesn't require CPU horsepower to function whereas USB does. Firewire 800 is interesting but again, nothing short of video work needs that kind of bandwidth.

USB is meant for all the devices we regularly use with PCs these days. Macs still maintain a lead with Firewire connectivity, and that's fine, I have no issues with that. I just don't have any Firewire hardware and I doubt I ever will since the ratio of USB to Firewire devices is probably 50:1.

What's the most popular consumer electronics device on the market today that uses Firewire? The iPod, of course, but I know tons of people that own one and not one of them uses Firewire to download and upload music from it even when their PC has Firewire support built into the motherboard or Firewire ports on the front of the PC - it's USB all the way.

As far as IBM PC's are concerned, it's USB or nothing. But that's just my opinion as well as the reason that Firewire wasn't considered as an option on the poll; it has nothing to do with a Mac vs PC debate (not that one is starting, mind you). I just wanted my reasoning made a bit clearer. It's serial vs USB.

Let's face it: the only consumer products that I'm currently aware of as of this day that use serial as the primary interface are some Palms, some PocketPCs and Ham radio equipment and scanners. There might be other stuff but it's in the minority.

Our hobby and its market is and always will be considered a niche one. Even so, the manufacturers should ask us, the consumers, what we want.

Just my $.02.

Paul

ps
As far as "fair wording" is concerned, I'll paraphrase a famouse 1960's song:

"It's my poll and I'll post what I want to, post what I want to, post what I want to... you would post to if the poll belonged to you..."

No, I can't sing... no worries there

 

[Voyager]

As far as "fair wording" is concerned, I'll paraphrase a famouse 1960's song:

"It's my poll and I'll post what I want to, post what I want to, post what I want to... you would post to if the poll belonged to you..."

No, I can't sing... no worries there

No problem, as long as you admit/know that your poll is biased and will not serve any useful purpose. Now, if you wanted a fair poll, you could word it as I did - without the biased comments. But, it's your right to conduct a useless, biased, poll that lacks credibility if you want to. Just don't try to use it to show a clear desire for the scanner community.

Joe M.

 

[Al42]

What's the most popular consumer electronics device on the market today that uses Firewire? The iPod, of course, but I know tons of people that own one and not one of them uses Firewire to download and upload music from it even when their PC has Firewire support built into the motherboard or Firewire ports on the front of the PC - it's USB all the way.

I never thought of that - our laptops have firewire ports, but my wife uses the USB port to interface to her iPod. And she usually wants to stay at the bleeding edge. Almost no one thinks "firewire" at first glance, unless the device is video.

Let's face it: the only consumer products that I'm currently aware of as of this day that use serial as the primary interface are some Palms, some PocketPCs and Ham radio equipment and scanners. There might be other stuff but it's in the minority.

Almost anything using a PIC microcontroller, since a Max232 is a whole lot cheaper than a USB interface chip - and a lot easier to breadboard than a SMD chip.

 

[br0adband]

But, it's your right to conduct a useless, biased, poll that lacks credibility if you want to. Just don't try to use it to show a clear desire for the scanner community.

Joe M.

Just as it's your right to keep posting useless, biased statements that you've already said to prove your point about my useless, biased poll.

Gotcha. Thank you for your participation!

Paul