Where do you start? Researching moving analog to digital systems..

Status
Not open for further replies.

SS1972

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
Messages
7
Location
POTEAU, OK
Hi there! :)

I live in a widespread county and our SO/911 are considering a system transfer. I want to learn more about what's involved in such a venture, what changes are suppose to be made to have reliable, clear communications and remain legal, if anything needs to be done there and so forth. Maybe product recommendations, without being too spammy, please.

I guess it's a big question, I'm not going to claim I totally even know what I am seeking, I have been learning as I go but would really like to assist people better, all I know to do is try to find things out as I go.


Thanks for your time!

ss
 

testuser

Newbie
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
4
Location
Norman, OK
Communications Systems

There are two objectives with communications systems.

First, your agency needs OPERABILITY. This is the ability for all the units to communicate during any type of event.

Second, your agency should have INTEROPERABILITY. Interoperability is the ability to communicate with neighboring agencies and those agencies you would call on for help in a disaster (i.e. the STATE, etc..)

Be careful that you don't give up one for the other when you really need both. Changing radio systems should be part of a plan you work out between your agency and your neighboring agencies. When you make changes, all of the agencies you need in a disaster will likely need to make changes too. If your neighbors don't have a budget to make changes, then you will be by yourself on an island and there will be a lot of hurt feelings.

At the end of the day, communication is about people talking to people. It's not really about analog vs. digital or ipads vs. radios.

The vendors will be glad to sell you anything for which you ask. They will even be glad tell you what you "need." In the end, with a lot of experience under my belt, I haven't seen a benefit of digital over analog for the users (only for the vendors).

If you will spend the same money fixing/expanding what you already have, you and your neighbors will be happier in the long run.

Good luck!
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,727
Location
United States
Digital is a different beast compared to analog. It's not always as easy as just swapping out the new digital repeaters for the old analog ones.
Coverage is going to appear to be slightly different. Digital works great up until the point it doesn't, then it just sort of falls off a cliff. Analog was nice because it would slowly degrade, and the human brain can often fill in enough of a garbled analog transmission to make it work. Digital, like I said, works then falls off the cliff.

Legality issues aren't too bad. Emission designators would need to be changed on the license(s). If additional repeaters are required to get the coverage they need, then those sites need to be licensed also.

All your gear will need to be replaced unless it is already capable of handling the digital emission that's chosen.

Really, and I can stress this enough, they should be looking at turning up the new digital equipment in such a way as to retain at least some of the analog system. While digital is nice, when it fails, it fails hard. A lot of agencies buy the new gear, tear out the old stuff and then find out later that a failure has completely hosed all their communications. Keeping at least one analog channel for interoperability with other agencies that are not digital, and to serve as a back up system is really a good idea.

Most importantly, the agency should really consider getting an outside consultant to help research, plan and execute the transition. Where I've seen things fail is when the agency relies solely on a single shop/vendor for the entire project. This is kind of dangerous. A neutral consultant can save a lot of problems.

Other issue is "brand loyalty". This is common on the law enforcement side. "Chief Bob, who's been with the agency 40 years has always carried a brand-X radio, so that's all he'll consider". This can be an issue since SOME brands like to sell expensive and over provisioned radio gear to small agencies that don't have the staff or a consultant to analyze their actual needs. I really hate when I see a small agency that did fine with a single or two channel VHF system suddenly get forced into a 700MHz trunked system with top tier radios, all in the name of "interoperability". There are vendors and manufacturers that will happily drain your county coffers of every single last cent of taxpayer dollars.

Consider long term costs of ownership, including maintenance contracts. Consider a 10 year replacement cycle and figure in the costs of that.

Don't fall for the sales tactic of "if you really support your law enforcement, you'll buy them the best". That's a load of crap.

If repeaters are being replaced, consider the rest of the system too. Coax can deteriorate over time, antennas can, too. It makes sense to use the system downtime to replace these things. It might prevent a failure down the road.

Make 100% damn sure that when they program the new radios that they put EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of the nationwide interoperability channels in the radio. This should be mandatory and any guy who programs radios for public safety that ignores this needs to be drawn and quartered.
Simplex channel should be mandatory, also. The old say if "you fail to plan, you plan to fail" applies here. Assuming that the new radio system will never fail work fine, until it fails.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,727
Location
United States
Oh, and resist the urge to encrypt. I know law enforcement loves encryption, but it's really a double edged sword. Selecting the wrong type of encryption can lock you into a limited number of radio brands. This can get expensive really quick.

Also, encryption kills interoperability. If a vendor tries to sell them expensive radios in the name of "interoperability" then starts talking about encryption, throw them out and lock the doors. Encryption on it's own is fine. Encryption and Interoperability is NOT fine. Having a separate encrypted channels or talk group is useful in some cases, but encrypting the primary dispatch channel is a very poor decision.

Mandate, require, demand that ANY system that is installed be 100% compatible with industry standards. There are options that some vendors add to the P25 standard that are not standard, they are proprietary. Vendors will throw these in for free, the agency thinks they are getting a great deal, and then a few years down the road when they have to get new radios, they'll find out they have been locked into a single brand of radio, and "oh look, the prices have shot up!". If P25 is the chosen standard, then the system needs to be 100% P25 compatible and open for use by all radios that are P25 compatible. No proprietary options should be allowed, even if they are "free".
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
1,217
Location
Tulsa
If the State of Oklahoma gets wind that you are considering a new system, they will show up on your door step along with the Motorola sales team. There is a reason OKWIN hasn't penetrated SE Oklahoma, they would love to saddle you with financing their system into your county. You have received excellent advice, first step is to hire an independent outside consultant and let him determine the best most cost effective system, it will be money well spent.
 

N5TWB

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
1,044
Location
Sand Springs OK
Hi there! :)

I live in a widespread county and our SO/911 are considering a system transfer. I want to learn more about what's involved in such a venture, what changes are suppose to be made to have reliable, clear communications and remain legal, if anything needs to be done there and so forth. Maybe product recommendations, without being too spammy, please.

I guess it's a big question, I'm not going to claim I totally even know what I am seeking, I have been learning as I go but would really like to assist people better, all I know to do is try to find things out as I go.


Thanks for your time!

ss

In the short space of time and bandwidth of four replies, you've received thousands of dollars of value in consulting advice. You would be wise to read and heed every aspect addressed in those posts. Failure to do so may lead to much regret on down the road. Just sayin'...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top