Why is Community EMS simulcasted on Regional EMS?

[fireresq2825]

I didn't say they should change it just to suit me, I just want a reason for why it is the way it is. You seem like the know it all type, why don't you try to explain it to me?

I haven't been in this discussion yet so I'll take a shot at it. Are you actually even sure that the TG's are truly patched? Seems to me like a lot of whining going on about something someone isn't even sure about. If they have a unified dispatch center they could very well just be using the same TG. They could even have a console multiselect so the dispatch goes out on more than one TG without being patched.

They are a control station based dispatch (similar to how HVA is right now) and not a wireline operation (direct connect to the system) so the odds of the TG's being patched with two control stations and actually working well are slim.

My suggestion at this point is figure the rest of out yourself since you seem to put little stock in anything anyone else has said. Just my 2 cents worth & good luck with that.

 

[rdale]

I just want a reason for why it is the way it is.

You'd have to talk to them I suppose... See if they have a "contact us" link on their webpage.

I didn't say I knew it all - I just knew that it was highly unlikely for MPSCS to allow two talkgroups to be patched in together, as you originally surmised. As we've seen, my assumption was correct as they don't do that.

 

[SCPD]

You'd have to talk to them I suppose... See if they have a "contact us" link on their webpage.

I didn't say I knew it all - I just knew that it was highly unlikely for MPSCS to allow two talkgroups to be patched in together, as you originally surmised. As we've seen, my assumption was correct as they don't do that.

I never said they were patched together, I said I was hearing Oakland calls on a Genesee talkgroup. No I never listened to the Oakland TG, cuz I don't care about Oakland. Actually I did email them once long ago when they were still analog and they said "the info you need is in the FCC database" so obviously they don't know a damn thing about their own system or they refuse to share what they do know.

 

[SCPD]

I haven't been in this discussion yet so I'll take a shot at it. Are you actually even sure that the TG's are truly patched? Seems to me like a lot of whining going on about something someone isn't even sure about. If they have a unified dispatch center they could very well just be using the same TG. They could even have a console multiselect so the dispatch goes out on more than one TG without being patched.

They are a control station based dispatch (similar to how HVA is right now) and not a wireline operation (direct connect to the system) so the odds of the TG's being patched with two control stations and actually working well are slim.

My suggestion at this point is figure the rest of out yourself since you seem to put little stock in anything anyone else has said. Just my 2 cents worth & good luck with that.

Fred determined its a VHF freq being patched in to a TG. I just want to know why a Wayne County freq is patched into a Genesee Co TG. Am I the only one that doesn't understand that?

I respect your opinion I just think don't think a lot of you understand my questions.

 

[rdale]

I never said they were patched together

Sorry - guess these sentences confused us

They need to turn this patch off.

I think its only 1: Community's north TG is patched to Regional).

You are asking a "why" question that likely only those who set up the system for them know... We explained the "what" and "how" for you in the previous replies, so I guess you're stuck with your best guess on the why.

 

[SCPD]

You are asking a "why" question that likely only those who set up the system for them know... We explained the "what" and "how" for you in the previous replies, so I guess you're stuck with your best guess on the why.

I guess you didn't see Fred's post, he said LifeNet's (a Detroit company) VHF freq is patched to Regional EMS's (a Flint company) talkgroup on 12209. That's the patch I'm talking about. So does it make sense to you that Detroit freq would need to be patched to a Flint TG? A simple yes or no would be sufficient. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to instead be patched to CEMS (a Pontiac company) on 12211 or 12212? I'm not a geography whiz but I know that Detroit is closer to Pontiac than it is to Flint.

 

[rdale]

I did see Fred's post. You were talking about patching talkgroups, I said that MPSCS wouldn't allow it, and Fred confirmed that it's not happening.

Again - you are asking why. Nobody in the scanner world would know unless they are intricately involved in the dispatching system there, and given the lack of any answers, you're left to guessing.

 

[SCPD]

I did see Fred's post. You were talking about patching talkgroups, I said that MPSCS wouldn't allow it, and Fred confirmed that it's not happening.

Again - you are asking why. Nobody in the scanner world would know unless they are intricately involved in the dispatching system there, and given the lack of any answers, you're left to guessing.

I was asking for your opinion, not an explanation, read my questions again.

Actually they do patch some talkgroups to others. I've been hearing D3 South traffic on D3 North's TG all weekend. And last weekend they patched Genesee Co Fireground 2 to Livingston Co Emergency 1. I'm not saying its permanent, but it is possible.

 

[rdale]

Opinion: Don't know.

Patching: Nobody said talkgroups couldn't be patched. I said that MPSCS doesn't like 24x7 talkgroup patches, and I'm not sure that any exist on the system.

 

[redfordman38]

12209 Regional EMS Dispatch

12209 is a single dual-dispatcher for both Regional EMS (Genesee & Ingham Counties) and HealthLink Medical Transportation Systems (Wayne County/Downriver area). Community EMS (Oakland County) has a seperate dispatcher operating off a different ID. Both dispatchers are located in the same Communications Center located in Southfield. Their old VHF system operated in the same way because of where the towers were located and because of call volumes, Community operated on one channel, with Regional and HealthLink combined on another. They are all sister companies.

 

[SCPD]

Opinion: Don't know.

Patching: Nobody said talkgroups couldn't be patched. I said that MPSCS doesn't like 24x7 talkgroup patches, and I'm not sure that any exist on the system.

24x7 patching: conventional to TG = yes, tons. TG to TG, no. We've established that its not TG to TG. Pay attention!

 

[SCPD]

12209 is a single dual-dispatcher for both Regional EMS (Genesee & Ingham Counties) and HealthLink Medical Transportation Systems (Wayne County/Downriver area). Community EMS (Oakland County) has a seperate dispatcher operating off a different ID. Both dispatchers are located in the same Communications Center located in Southfield. Their old VHF system operated in the same way because of where the towers were located and because of call volumes, Community operated on one channel, with Regional and HealthLink combined on another. They are all sister companies.

Why cant HealthLink get its own talkgroup or turn off the patch and just be conventional? If they can afford $5500 radios they can certainly afford to hire another dispatcher.

 

[redfordman38]

CEMS & REMS/HL Dispatch system

Their dispatch system is based off call volume. CEMS has a high call volume with many units, so they have 1 dispatcher on 1 channel (now 2) to cover their system. REMS & HL have low call volumes with fewer units each comparitively, so they combined the two systems into 1 dispatcher on 1 channel. They kept the same system set-up when they converted to the new digital system. I used to dispatch for CEMS for 2 years and REMS/HL for 3 years. I hope this helps to answer, I'm not sure how else to explain it.

 

[SCPD]

Their dispatch system is based off call volume. CEMS has a high call volume with many units, so they have 1 dispatcher on 1 channel (now 2) to cover their system. REMS & HL have low call volumes with fewer units each comparitively, so they combined the two systems into 1 dispatcher on 1 channel. They kept the same system set-up when they converted to the new digital system. I used to dispatch for CEMS for 2 years and REMS/HL for 3 years. I hope this helps to answer, I'm not sure how else to explain it.

I still don't understand why they need the patch. Why do Regional rigs in Genesee Co need to hear Health Link calls in Wayne Co/Downriver and vice-versa? Why not dispatch Regional only on 12209, and Health Link only on VHF? They could still use just 1 dispatcher. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[redfordman38]

The only other way to explain it is $$$ and contracts. REMS and HL, each company has to few runs to justify their own dispatcher and radio system. So combined the 2 companies can cover 1 dispatcher and a shared channel due to call volume status. ((At one time ERS Ambulance (now closed and operated in Genesee County) was also handled by and dispatched on the same radio with REMS andHL)). The other reason for 1 channel, is when either the CEMS Dispatcher or REMS/HL dispatcher answered a 911 line, or went for any type of break including lunch or dinner, the other company's dispatcher has to handle dispatch and radio traffic for both dispatchers radio's (3 comanies), and it was easier to answer 2 channels (and even had the option of tying the 2 channels together to transmit radio traffic over both systems at the same time). Then there are the 1-5 Ambulance Calltakers they fit in. They also employ another HL dispatcher which dispatches all the lab courier fleet that covers the many systems they contract with on a private channel. They also have another dispatcher that dispatches the HL Wheelchair and Ambulatory Services division on their own private channel. CEMS also has another dispatcher that dispatches the CEMS/Botsford Hospital Wheelchair and Ambulatory Services division off another private channel. And lastly they also house the Botsford Hospital Operators that handle all incoming hospital calls, in-house call transfers, and paging of hospital personnel on their own private system. The have a spacious Comm Center, but it also filled to capacity. And there many times we wished REMS and HL were seperated because one company couldn't hear the other, and were constantly talking over each other. So, I was trying to give you an idea of the complexaty of their operations...but I guess in the long and short of it, it boils down to contracts and $$$. Sorry about the long explanation, but trying to show the complexaty of how their Center was set up.

 

[Thunderbolt]

What is the name of the parent company, that owns all of these EMS companies?

73s

Ron

 

[redfordman38]

The parent company is Botsford Health System, they own Communiy EMS; providing ambulance, wheelchair service, ambulatory transportation, and dispatching for their own companies and contracted companies. CEMS and McLaren Regional Health Systems formed a joint venture, Regional EMS in Genesee County; providing both ambulance and wheelchair service. CEMS and Ingham Medical Center formed a joint venture, Regional EMS in Ingham County; providing ambulance and wheelchair service. CEMS and Oakwood Hospitals formed a joint venture, HealthLink Medical Transportation; providing ambulance, wheelchair, ambulatory transportation, and courier services for labs and paperwork. CEMS and Genesis Health Care System formed a joint venture, Community Ambulance in Zanesville, Ohio; providing ambulance, wheelchair services, and courier services. CEMS and Scott & White Memorial Hospital formed a joint venture, Scott & White EMS in Temple, Texas; providing ambulance and wheelchair services. CEMS operates Beaumont Medical Transportation in the Oakland County/Detroit area. CEMS operates DMCare Express in Detroit. CEMS operates Life Support Training Institute (LSTI), an EMS education center. CEMS operates Parastar Emergency Systems; an EMS & Fire consulting company, providing management services, and billing services. CEMS operates emsemployment.net, a centralized employment net for various companies in different states. CEMS operates CEMTECH, a vehicle repair facility for the system fleet of vehicles and their employees. -x-

 

[redfordman38]

Regional EMS and HealthLink radios are not patched together. Their radios operate similar to the "old" Genesee Central Dispatch system. Their dispatch radio picks up the repeater signals from the 3 different towers on the same radio channel and when dispatch transmits, it goes out over the same three repeater towers at the same time, and therefore one radio is hearing the others coming over the towers in the same system. -x-

 

[SCPD]

Regional EMS and HealthLink radios are not patched together. Their radios operate similar to the "old" Genesee Central Dispatch system. Their dispatch radio picks up the repeater signals from the 3 different towers on the same radio channel and when dispatch transmits, it goes out over the same three repeater towers at the same time, and therefore one radio is hearing the others coming over the towers in the same system. -x-

So the dispatcher's actual radios are still VHF? Why aren't they fully MPSCS digital yet?

 

[KB8UYC]

So the dispatcher's actual radios are still VHF? Why aren't they fully MPSCS digital yet?

I think the confusion here for you is the difference between "Patching" and "Simulcasting"

The EMS talkgroups that you are hearing are on VHF. They are simulcasting to the MPSCS. Some of the users are actually on the MPSCS system. Has Dan mentioned above, HVA does some of the same. So the short answer to your question is VHF SIMULCASTING on the MPSCS at the same time, and that is why it sounds the way it does. If you run PRO96Com, you could tell instantly if there was a "Patch" active or not. Patches don't occur 24x7 on the MPSCS. Michigan State Police patches talkgroups if they are short dispatchers and that usually lasts for the shift.