Will all police eventually move to 800MHZ?

[ScanningRadio]

Will all police radio frequencies eventually move to 800MHZ?

Or, will the police bands be scattered around the band dials so there is little to no interference with other police radio frequencies?

 

[mass-man]

800 and a lot of 700 mhz freq!!!!

 

[ScanningRadio]

So, eventually any scanner with 20MHZ to 500MHZ will be no good for picking up police at all?

What will it be good for after that then?

 

[rdale]

To answer your first question:

No.

Your second question:

No.

 

[2wayfreq]

There is a misconception about Lo-Band VHF/UHF, that these are "Old Fashioned" or "Obsolete" bands for Public Safety. And the public safety trunking sales reps are quick to tout the new Wiz-bang "800/700 MHZ" "P25", super duper bands! Yeah Right!

 

[ScanningRadio]

There is a misconception about Lo-Band VHF/UHF, that these are "Old Fashioned" or "Obsolete" bands for Public Safety. And the public safety trunking sales reps are quick to tout the new Wiz-bang "800/700 MHZ" "P25", super duper bands! Yeah Right!

Yeah, but if you live in California and want to listen to San Francisco or Oakland, you will need a scanner with 700MHZ to 800MHZ frequency, while if you live in California and want to listen to Los Angeles you will need a scanner with 400MHZ.

 

[rdale]

Correct. But you asked about every PD in the US, and our answer remains true. Not all (not most actually) are changing to 700/800.

 

[ScanningRadio]

Correct. But you asked about every PD in the US, and our answer remains true. Not all (not most actually) are changing to 700/800.

OK, here is a question for you then.

I live in a area where only one city I listen to on my scanner changed over to 800HMZ, while everything else I listen to is still the same at 100HMZ to 500HMZ.

Does that make me the norm, or just lucky?

 

[n5ims]

Humboldt County CA also felt the need to get an HF license http://forums.radioreference.com/hf-mw-lw-general-discussion/117252-hf-law-enforcement.html for 1000 watts on 3.201 MHz. The justification for this frequency on their license application stated "Frequencies above 25 MHz. appear not to be available for our purpose or would not perform in a way that we desire."

 

[jim202]

Or, will the police bands be scattered around the band dials so there is little to no interference with other police radio frequencies?

I don't know who is feeding you the crap that 800 is the only place you will find things to listen too. It
will never happen. Maybe in the eyes of wishful thinking at Motorola, but the simple facts are there
is just not enough channels and money to move everything to 800 MHz.

The agencies out in the mid west where you go miles between the farms, just can't afford to install a
tower for coverage of that kind of open land. Those agencies will probably never move off of the low
band and VHF channels they have now.

Motorola quit making low band radios a number of years ago because they didn't see any future in
them. Then they had to go out and buy part of the Vertex radio company just to stay in the market.

Take a look at the regions that have a bunch of mountains. Most of the non major city areas have
stayed right where they are now for radio frequencies. There are a number of states that have gone
for a state wide VHF or UHF radio system.

As for 700 MHz, I think the jury is still out on that band. Yup a number of agencies have gone there,
even at least one state, Louisiana has a statewide system on 700. But with the turmoil that is still
with the 700 band, it is going to be a long time before we see any major country wide acceptance
of a mass migration to it.

The big push in many of the moves to 800 is being done by Motorola and slick sales force pitches
to some real gullible agencies that don't have any technical people guiding them. Don't get me
wrong as being anti Motorola. I love most of their radios. I just don't like the way they are suckering
public safety agencies into spending mega bucks on a radio system they don't need or can't afford.

 

[ScanningRadio]

I don't know who is feeding you the crap that 800 is the only place you will find things to listen too. It
will never happen. Maybe in the eyes of wishful thinking at Motorola, but the simple facts are there
is just not enough channels and money to move everything to 800 MHz.

The agencies out in the mid west where you go miles between the farms, just can't afford to install a
tower for coverage of that kind of open land. Those agencies will probably never move off of the low
band and VHF channels they have now.

Motorola quit making low band radios a number of years ago because they didn't see any future in
them. Then they had to go out and buy part of the Vertex radio company just to stay in the market.

Take a look at the regions that have a bunch of mountains. Most of the non major city areas have
stayed right where they are now for radio frequencies. There are a number of states that have gone
for a state wide VHF or UHF radio system.

As for 700 MHz, I think the jury is still out on that band. Yup a number of agencies have gone there,
even at least one state, Louisiana has a statewide system on 700. But with the turmoil that is still
with the 700 band, it is going to be a long time before we see any major country wide acceptance
of a mass migration to it.

The big push in many of the moves to 800 is being done by Motorola and slick sales force pitches
to some real gullible agencies that don't have any technical people guiding them. Don't get me
wrong as being anti Motorola. I love most of their radios. I just don't like the way they are suckering
public safety agencies into spending mega bucks on a radio system they don't need or can't afford.

OK, the way you make it sound.

Police changing over to 700HMZ and 800HMz is a "bad thing", because they were "suckered into it by corporations".

Does that mean they will eventually go back to 100HMZ to 400HMZ?

 

[n5ims]

OK, the way you make it sound.

Police changing over to 700HMZ and 800HMz is a "bad thing", because they were "suckered into it by corporations".

Does that mean they will eventually go back to 100HMZ to 400HMZ?

Only if you're able to find politicians willing to admit to spending tens of millions of dollars on systems that weren't the best choice. The ones I've seen are much more willing to spend triple the initial amount applying fix after fix after fix than admit that they were snookered into buying something that wasn't in the best interest of the system's users.

 

[ScanningRadio]

Only if you're able to find politicians willing to admit to spending tens of millions of dollars on systems that weren't the best choice. The ones I've seen are much more willing to spend triple the initial amount applying fix after fix after fix than admit that they were snookered into buying something that wasn't in the best interest of the system's users.

Yeah, being 100HMZ to 400HMZ gives you a better long distance than being in 700HMZ and 800HMZ.

Only a politician can trip people into changing from that.

 

[dugan]

Am I missing something here? If you are listening to P25 trunking systems, who cares whether you are listening to VHF or UHF or 800MHz? Is there a digital scanner out there that doesn't cover the whole range? Where I live I listen to VHF and when I drive to the the city I am listening on 800MHz and the only thing I might change is the antenna I am using.

 

[zz0468]

OK, the way you make it sound.

Police changing over to 700HMZ and 800HMz is a "bad thing", because they were "suckered into it by corporations".

It runs a lot deeper than just that. As technology developed, end users were demanding more channels, and advanced features that could only be offered on trunking systems. 800 MHz was the only place where spectrum was available to "steal" from other services (UHF television CH70-83), so that's where it ended up. 700 MHz is taking yet more UHF television spectrum to provide more spectrum and more advanced features.

Sure, Motorola and other manufacturers have taken advantage of the situation. I guess that's how capitalism works. *shrug*

I don't begrudge Motorola for trying to sell systems - that's what they do. I do begrudge politicians and other non-technical types for jumping on the bandwagon because that's just become the thing to do. Spending, say, $150 million dollars to cover a mostly rural county when a third of that would do what they really need is almost criminal, in this day and age.

Does that mean they will eventually go back to 100HMZ to 400HMZ?

As some areas moved to 800, a lot of VHF and UHF frequencies were vacated. In major metropolitan areas, they were quickly snapped up, though. An example is the LA area, where many (most?) police departments are now on t-band trunking.

So, in answer to your original question, no, 800 isn't going to completely take over. It's been, and will be, the predominant band in most populated areas, because there's room. But agencies that have a need for the propagation characteristics of VHF and UHF, and where there's room, will remain on lower bands for the foreseeable future.

 

[ff-medic]

800 mhz bounces off of a tree leaf , is expensive, you have to have more repeaters compared to UHF and VHF Hi / Low, and does not penetrate though buildings and barriers very well. Poor for a city who has Law Enforcement as well as Fire Services on the same band ( If not the tow agencys could not talk to each other ( Portables ) , who frequently do Search and Rescue - Building Entry , Confined Space - Trench Rescue.

Rebanding is troublesome , most usually limits you from communicating with other agencys.

A new band arrives from the FCC , and since it is new, most everyone wants on it.

I am a full believer in UHF. Although it is limited in range compared to VHF........I belive it comprimises
all the bands into the most sensible range of radio freqs.

Read up on the 800 Mhz band , and compare it to the other bands. Yes, 800 mhz has its tricks as well as its pros.....But in my belief is limited for Public Safety.

FF-Medic !!!!

 

[kb2vxa]

All other comments aside and sticking to the original question; 800 has reached capacity in many areas and 700 is filling up rapidly so NO all the way around. Other bands overflowing already spectrum is at a premium so sit back and see what happens next. I can't make an accurate prediction but rest assured there will be more spectrum auctions and a reshuffling of the cards sometime in the future.

 

[davidgcet]

part of the reasoning behing the FCC giving every state 2 mhz of 700 mhz spectrum was to reduce congestion and promote interoperability. in theory everyone could move to using the statewide 700 systems as they are built out, but in reality that will never happen. some agencies are too small to afford the cost of the units and airtime, while large agencies often have so much invested in current infrastructure it does not make sense to fully switch.

trunking in any band has a great advantage over individual conventional channels if multiple agencies all need similar coverage and interoperability, but even so you still see many areas using their old freqs. my county went 800 trunked in '97 and even today half the agencies here use their original systems primarily and the trunk as a back up.