Will my Police Dept. be forced to go from VSELP to APCO25?

[BRIAN99]

I live in Trenton N.J. Trenton PD has been using the old VSELP system since 1997. Does anyone know if they will have to become APCO 25 compliant by 2006?
Thank You,
Brian

 

[CQ20m]

It would be great for scanner enthusiasts if they did change over, at least you would be able to monitor them.
Trenton already has the system in place, being used by Trenton Fire and various public works agencies. However, they may not have the money or desire to switch over all their police vehicles and officers radios.

 

[FuelForFire]

Trenton already has the system in place, being used by Trenton Fire and various public works agencies.

Are you saying that there is already APCO infrastructure in place but it is being used in analog?

Also it should be noted that Motorola discontinued support for VSELP portables and mobiles at the beginning of last year and will discontinue support for VSELP infrastructure at the end of 2006.

So TPD now cannot replace broken units or purchase new ones.

Mike

 

[CQ20m]

The system is in place, is digital trunking, but is not used by the Trenton police. It is used by Trenton fire and Public Works. I think the police have the only VSELP system around, maybe so they can't be monitored by us common folk. :roll:

Perhaps at the end of 2006, they will be forced to switch over, if Motorola is ending support.

 

[bigreddawg76]

Actually, I believe FD & PWare analog trunked. PD is VSELP digital.

 

[CQ20m]

OK.

 

[Tech792]

VSELP was the original version of Astro digital Motorola came out with before APCO25. It was in use here in Middletown until we recently abandoned it to go back to analog.
Atlantic Highlands PD is full time VSELP but plan on upgrading to APCO25 IMBE in the near future.

 

[PJH]

They won't be forced by government to go to IMBE, but rather manufacture and equipment support.

VSLEP was only available from Motorola. Field equipment that would allow usage were the Astro Spectra, Astro Saber and XTS3000. If they wanted to switch vendors or buy newer equipment, VSLEP wouldn't be available as an option (but if your a large enough customer, anything is possible).

Motorola has canceled the Astro Sabers a year ago, and the Astro Spectra's are due to be canceled by the end of the year.

However...

Field products such as above have a 7 year support cycle at the depot. Meaning, they can still send the radio's in without a problem. After 7 years from the offical cancel date, they do not guarntee parts availablity and will not service the product (but if you can get the parts, you can do it yourself or a competent radio shop). There are still several radio lines that Motorola currently has an inventory of parts for, and the radio's are 15+ years old. I actually ordered new firmware for an X9000 that was discon around 1991? if not before that.

There are 2 or 3 other large departments that are VSLEP out there (Memphis and Cleveland?) come to mind.

The site equipment are your standard Quantar's and DIU3000's etc and can usually be upgraded to IMBE standards with a software upgrade. Same with the field radio's. List price for upgrading VSLEP to IMBE is/was around $300 each. I am sure some quanity discounts could apply.

 

[BRIAN99]

Thank You

I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my inquiry. I am 47
years old and I enjoyed listening to Trenton P.D. since I was a kid. I had a module which you could attach to your transistor radio and recieve thier Police calls.
It has been at least eight years since they chnged over to the VSELP digital system. I am hoping that the people who said that they will have to change their system are right. I was thinking of purchasing a PRO 2096
and crossing my fingers.
I ,however, am concerned about the responses that indicated that they will
still be able to maintain their system for 7 years. I'm affraid that by that time anything I buy now will be obsolite.
If their are so many big cities using VSELP is their not a demand for a scanner capable of receiving VSELP?
Sincerely,
Brian Birch-Brian99

 

[PJH]

No, there are only a couple of cities that are using it. VSLEP is a propriatary format developed and used only by Motorola. Unless Motorola releases the format to scanner compaines, its not going to happen. Same for OpenSky systems by MA/COM. Unless they release the format (which is unlikely), its not going to happen. IMBE/P25/Astro is an OPEN format, so anyone who want to pay for the licensing can develop whatever they want.

Essentally, there is no scanner demand for VSELP since there is only a handful of places using it.

Buying a digital scanner may still not be a waste of money. Rumor is that NJSP is slowly upgrading their system to digital, and you never know who may jump on the P25 bandwagon. In additioin, your getting a nice new piece of equipment.

 

[bigreddawg76]

Burlington County also has an extensive digital TRS. Last time I was in Trenton I had no problems picking it up (which is more than I can say for my XM radio signal :lol: ).

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

They won't be forced by government to go to IMBE, but rather manufacture and equipment support.

VSLEP was only available from Motorola. Field equipment that would allow usage were the Astro Spectra, Astro Saber and XTS3000. If they wanted to switch vendors or buy newer equipment, VSLEP wouldn't be available as an option (but if your a large enough customer, anything is possible).

Motorola has canceled the Astro Sabers a year ago, and the Astro Spectra's are due to be canceled by the end of the year.

However...

Field products such as above have a 7 year support cycle at the depot. Meaning, they can still send the radio's in without a problem. After 7 years from the offical cancel date, they do not guarntee parts availablity and will not service the product (but if you can get the parts, you can do it yourself or a competent radio shop). There are still several radio lines that Motorola currently has an inventory of parts for, and the radio's are 15+ years old. I actually ordered new firmware for an X9000 that was discon around 1991? if not before that.

There are 2 or 3 other large departments that are VSLEP out there (Memphis and Cleveland?) come to mind.

The site equipment are your standard Quantar's and DIU3000's etc and can usually be upgraded to IMBE standards with a software upgrade. Same with the field radio's. List price for upgrading VSLEP to IMBE is/was around $300 each. I am sure some quanity discounts could apply.

Yep all Cleveland City Services are on VJUNK er uh VSELP (ZZZ VSLEEP).
I think that the reason that there are two talk group that are encytpted is becasue you can listen to Cleveland on the Interent and with a permit you can get a VSLEP radio programmed to reccieve only. So pay for the permit, pay for the radio. Pay for the programming too, this I do NOT know. I read, on the WWWW, that Cleveland might go to P-25 next year.
Just like with your system. If they go to P-25 that does NOT mean that you will be able to listen. This is NOT a given. They could encrypt all or @ least the Public Safety Talk Groups or one department or just the S.W.A.T. & all other "SENSITIVE" Talk Groups. When Cleveland first swithced over, they restransmitted their F.D./Rescue Squad dispatches on theire old V.H.F. Ch. 5 - Command. You could hear the DISPATCHES but NOT the MOBILES. Also they could ENCRYPT the Control Frequency and/or everything on the system. Control Frequency ENCRYPTION prevents scanenrs from following along. So even if they did NOT encrypt their Talk Groups, you would have to follow along in CONVENTIONAL MODE. In this case, good luck when the system gets real busy.
I just hope for your case that they go to P-25 and hope ans wait for Cleveland to do the same.

 

[Tech792]

VSELP has been around now for about 10-12 years. It won't be around much longer once support is discontinued. We got our VSELP system in 1994. We ordered new Astro Spectras about 9 months ago. But I hear they will be disconnuing these soon.

 

[BRIAN99]

I'm thinking of taking a chance!

I know that Trenton may not switch to Apco-25 from VSELP for a while and that it may never happen. I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope that they go to apco25 and do not encript. I bought a pro 96 last year but returned it when I found that nothing of interest to me was digital and that Trenton was Vselp.
I have a couple of questions. Am I taking a big risk if I were to get a Pro-2096 on EBAY For a dicount? Is the Uniden unit better than radio shack?
Also I would like anyone who gets additional infomation about Trentons system to please let me know. I use to have a friend who was a dispather in Trenton but he left during the transition from analog fm 454.375 TO DIGITAL VSELP. I have some friends that are Trenton Policeman but they can only tell me that they have allot of trouble with thier radios.Just a coupe of weeks ago a problem occured where a couple of Trenton Police officers were hurt in a roadchasebcause of their lack of ability to comunicate diretly with the Township officers. One last thing. I have been around for a long time and I remeber when the Police would get assitanc from regular people with scanners. There were several instances where they would capture a perpotrator with the assistance of a regular Joe with a scanner. What happened?[/b]