X2-TDMA, P25 Phase II TDMA scanners, do we have a winner?

[soberbyker]

Now that there are a few scanners on the market that can handle these formats do we have an idea which handles them best?

I don't have a need for one that does yet, but I was wondering if folks who've been experiencing these systems have a preference. I live on the edge of West Philadelphia and from what I understand someday they will move to P25 Phase II TDMA at which point my Pro-197 will no longer work with their system.

[if there is a current thread on this please point me in that direction, I could only find old threads about the differences between the two systems, not the scanners that can handle them, thanks]

 

[HudsonScannerGuy]

TDMA Scanners

I know for a fact the BCD325P2 does it and I think the 536HP, check the Uniden Wiki.
Hope that helps.
-A6

 

[SCPD]

Gre psr-800,whistler ws 1098,1099,1095
uniden 996p2,436hp,536hp,
radio shack pro668

 

[bee]

I have the HP2 , 436 and the 536. HP 2 is the best.

 

[soberbyker]

Thanks for the replies.

bee, why do you pick the HP2 over the others? Has the lack of a keyboard been a hindrance? I'm thinking I'd want to have the keyboard. Is the reception better? (I realize the antenna plays a role in that)

Where I live I don't need the Phase II TDMA capability, yet. My county is still non trunking 500 band and nearby Philly has the capability I believe, but hasn't switched.

These scanners aren't cheap and I'd like to hear the pros and cons.

 

[sallen07]

Here's the list of currently-available scanners that can do Phase II. If two models are listed together the first is the handheld and the second the mobile version.

Whistler
WS1080/WS1095
WS1088/WS1098

Radio Shack
Pro-668 (RS version of Whistler WS1080)

Uniden
BCD325P2/BCD996P2
BCD436HP/BCD536HP
HP-2

Note that there are other digital scanners available but they will only do Phase I.

As far as "which one is best", that's very much dependent on the system you are trying to monitor and your location. I recently bought a 436HP to go with the Pro-668 I picked up during the RS fire sale and the difference in performance on our local system is striking. The issue with monitoring these systems isn't really Phase II but the fact that they tend to use LSM, where there are mutiple towers broadcasting the same signal on the same frequencies, so your scanner 'hears' the same information milliseconds apart, making it hard to lock onto the signal and decode it.

My experience is that the 436HP handles LSM *much* better than the 668. With the 668, I've found a few sweet spots on my desk where I get good audio ... most of the time. Move it an inch or so either way, and garbled (or no) audio. With the 436, on the other hand, I can walk around the house and not lose a word.

Yes, the BCD436HP has some well-known issues (which are discussed at length in the Uniden forums) but for me personally, it's a much better performer for P25 Phase II.

 

[br0adband]

And behind door number 3...

Don't forget that using a "cheap USB TV tuner" for $10-25 + OP25 running on Linux = P25 Phase I and II monitoring capability (yes that means you have to have a computer too but since you're online that's effectively a given nowadays unless you do everything from a smartphone). With some of the best audio quality out there, OP25 really does sound damned good on P25 decoding both of the formats so it's definitely an option to consider and OP25 handles LSM fantastically well by design, too.

Yes it's a bit more convoluted and beyond what most people are willing to expend any effort towards setting up and making functional but it is another option and a viable one for some people in some situations where forking over a few hundred bucks for a physical scanner may or may not be worth the expense.

These days you could - and I'm just saying this to present it as one of those other options:

- pick up a used dual core laptop with 4GB of RAM in it for $75-150 (you might already even have one to spare, even some "Netbooks" are capable given they have enough RAM and CPU horsepower)
- an RTL-based stick for the tuner (or several since they're so cheap)
- an antenna or two (per stick since the included ones typically are pretty crappy, possibly pigtails if needed)
- Linux (free)
- OP25 (free)
- Windows preinstalled on the laptop (which if it has at least Windows 7 on it means you'd get Windows 10 for free too if you grab it before July 2016)

and with that you'd be able to:

- monitor P25 Phase I and II very well with OP25 and Linux (could even dedicate the laptop setup just for that purpose)
- monitor most anything else available on the Windows side including practically every digital format in use today (there are some decent SDR applications on Linux but nowhere near what's available on Windows especially DSD+ for the digital format decoding)
- spend less money in the long run (unless you have an absolute requirement to be completely mobile with a handheld or mobile scanner - that's not to say you can't carry a laptop and a USB stick tuner with an antenna with you readily)

I'm just saying there are alternatives if someone needs to monitor P25 Phase I or II comms nowadays and with significantly less expense if one chooses to consider the other paths.

Just my $.02 and change...

 

[popnokick]

The question you want to be asking... and probably in the Pennsylvania forum here on RR is: "From where I live on the edge of west Philly, which P25 Phase II-capable scanning system is going to work best for what I listen to?" (And then go on to explain what you want to listen to.) There are varying results being experienced depending on the system(s) you are listening to (e.g. Philly) and the scanner(s) you are using. YMMV absolutely applies here. FWIW - my Uniden HP-2 is quite amazing in its range and audio clarity on digital (Phase I) systems. I listen to two Federal and one utility company and have been mightily impressed by the audio quality for the distance the systems are from me (40+ miles in a couple of cases). And I'm only using an OCFD homebuilt antenna in the attic.

 

[soberbyker]

Thanks again folks, for the replies.

The question you want to be asking... and probably in the Pennsylvania forum here on RR is: "From where I live on the edge of west Philly, which P25 Phase II-capable scanning system is going to work best for what I listen to?" (And then go on to explain what you want to listen to.) There are varying results being experienced depending on the system(s) you are listening to (e.g. Philly) and the scanner(s) you are using.

~snip~

Can that answer be given yet, since Philly is not Phase II yet? I don't know, I'm not as tech savvy, as far as scanners go, as most here, that's why I've asked in a general sense. Would Phase II reception be different than Phase I?

The HP2, do you miss having a keyboard to enter frequencies manually? Is there something like WIN500 for my Pro-197 for the HP2? ... or the other scanners mentioned? Philly is a big system and I only listen to the PD side and a few of the municipal channels.

From what I've read Philly is a long way off switching to Phase II so I have time to learn but a lot of this stuff is confusing, ALMOST makes me miss the old crystal scanner I had many moons ago :lol:

 

[sparklehorse]

Would Phase II reception be different than Phase I?

I don't have any Phase II systems in my area, so I have no personal experience with them, but from what I've gathered here at RR, the answer to that question is yes. There are technical differences in the way the data is transmitted that can make Phase II even more problematic to decode than Phase I. That said, some folks have had very good luck, while others have experimented with settings or a different antenna and found their happy place with Phase II. I'm sure others are still unhappy. There was a lengthy thread last year on the topic, centered around the trials and tribulations of receiving the new Bucks County, PA, Phase II system. It's well-worth reading all 24 pages of it if you want to bone up on some of the available Phase II info and tactics:

http://forums.radioreference.com/pe...unty-700mhz-phase-ii-radio-system-thread.html

Hope that helps.

.

 

[popnokick]

The only reason I mentioned Phase 2 is because you wrote it in your original question. IMHO I would buy a Phase 2-ready scanner to keep from having to buy again soon.

 

[Soundman]

Are you look for a hand held or a base scanner . The BCD436HP has everything you need .It a hand held .You type in your zip code and you are set . You also get a keypad . You also can update it every week of the uniden server .Also come with program software . The BCD536HP is the same thing but you get wi fi that will work for your apple phone that is just like the hp .

 

[soberbyker]

The only reason I mentioned Phase 2 is because you wrote it in your original question. IMHO I would buy a Phase 2-ready scanner to keep from having to buy again soon.

Thanks, I understood you mentioning Phase II, and as I mentioned, currently my Pro-197 covers everything for now, in fact I can still get my county on my old Pro-2022, by the time Philly goes Phase II there may be more options and/or less expensive models so I'm not going to buy and need another later. I can hear most of Philly now with the 197, but if/when they go Phase II ..... I may not get one at all with the wave of systems encrypting these day, but that's another discussion.

I've asked in the general forum to get a general feel from those who have tried and/or own the TDMA Phase II models avalible today.

Again, thanks all for the insight.

 

[soberbyker]

Are you look for a hand held or a base scanner . The BCD436HP has everything you need .It a hand held .You type in your zip code and you are set . You also get a keypad . You also can update it every week of the uniden server .Also come with program software . The BCD536HP is the same thing but you get wi fi that will work for your apple phone that is just like the hp .

I'm not a fan of the handheld units. I like the base/mobile scanners.

How easy is it to customise what you can pick up in a given area when you put in a zip code. Where I am in PA I can pick up a few nearby counties as well as some New Jersey with my RS Pro-197 in my house using a magnetic mount antenna on my windowsill. FWIW the BCD536HP is one that I've looked at for future use.

 

[W8RMH]

You can enter frequencies on the HP-2 with the Extreme Upgrade, you don't need a keyboard.