XTL5000 Seemingly Not Working on Talkgroup From Working Clone

[thisguyneedsabeer]

Hello, I recently ordered a secondary surplus XTL5000 with the O5 head from a surplus shop I have ordered more than a few XTS/XTL5000's from in the past without issue. The first thing I noticed with this radio was that it was on R09.00.00 FW, I had that upgraded to the latest R20.50.10 to match the other radio. No issues during that process. Here's where I started noticing some nuances.

• When the radio is read, it immediately turns off after being read in by the CPS. I am using an official Motorola HPN4007D power supply.
  • This also occurs when writing the radio
  • Power Supply has been working for my original base radio for at least a year without issue.
• I cloned my known good XTL5000 (A) into the new XTL5000 (B), they have the same codeplug and firmware. When I key up on my frequency/talkgroup pair (strapped TGID to a conventional personality) on radio A, my hotspot picks up the P25 traffic and links, unlinks, behaves as it should. When I perform the same action on radio B, the hotspot does not receive the traffic.
  • Both radios are programmed IDENTICALLY, with the same ID, the hotspot is not in private mode.
  • Radio <-> radio over simplex seems to work just fine.
  • Both radios have an Antenna with an SWR of 1:2.1:3 at most.
• Tried using all of the cables from the known good radio to rule out any issues with the cables purchased for the new radio. No change.
• Tried using the mic from the known good radio to rule out any issues with the used mic. No change.
• Tried a brand new blank code plug and programming a single frequency and talkgroup and strapping it to a conventional personality. No change.
• Tried changing the hotspot frequency and programmed the radio to TX/RX on the same frequency. No change.
• I talked my a semi-local repair shop and they said they could do a $45 diagnostic + whatever parts/repair are needed. My questions are:
  • Is there anything else I can do from my end?
  • What could cause this behavior? I am eager to learn, but unsure of what resources other than searching forums are available to me.
  • I assume this is a reasonable fee for an aging radio, does anyone think otherwise?

Thanks for any direction or input, and your time.

 

[KJ4DHF]

Have you checked to see if the #2 XTL is within the frequency specs. I had a new to me radio that work good radio to radio but would not activate my hotspot on Tx.

 

[thisguyneedsabeer]

Have you checked to see if the #2 XTL is within the frequency specs. I had a new to me radio that work good radio to radio but would not activate my hotspot on Tx.

I have not, this would require something like this (below) right? That issue is exactly what I'm experiencing.

https://www.amazon.com/AURSINC-NanoVNA-H-Vector-Network-Analyzer/dp/B07Z5VY7B6/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1AIRYAOHU6Q2P&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KpK0Pfjf8M6oqS_O_Es2G9TyMLKT2tzQUO8tPPqhD9xMqi0-Im8ssldPmyzwc--PpN_5gOfpW5NpWwuBFFzI-Qta_Ua95QfM8DPnc4-tA2A97v9RK2ZqcBHa1pdg2lZLNmqHJoq36y_9pglGIxvyvOnY_8-GdLAMBt7slw-ofk8l-bxd85-l0XDr86Xcb_1ZjP35EMCp3WyVYGAkPuPNuR4CH2q-zv8z8am2y1O7RuCFUQ-KEPWItAtNydCKVIrym88zMK1xTZvxXa5PhTr0JQMoxrSEFae_MHeErNbLAfg.jBpNP2yJyDqxdPPR47hkEZPrRmyvA4RuPzck_UMEJKU&dib_tag=se&keywords=nano+vna&qid=1726694877&refinements=p_72%3A1248921011&rnid=1248919011&s=industrial&sprefix=nano+vna%2Caps%2C220&sr=1-3

 

[KJ4DHF]

No my problem was found using a simple SDR dongle and OP25. Radio was way off freq from my hotspot.

 

[thisguyneedsabeer]

No my problem was found using a simple SDR dongle and OP25. Radio was way off freq from my hotspot.

Oh even better, would you mind sharing some troubleshooting tips? How did you identify the issue, and then what was the resulting fix? I do have the tuning software for the XTL but I will admit to being a bit of a novice in that regard.

 

[KJ4DHF]

I had a ton of help from someone that knew what they were doing. All I can tell you is he set up OP25 and my SDR on my hotspot freq and he watched signal on the OP25 display and where my radio was keying and saw it was way out of tune.

 

[thisguyneedsabeer]

I had a ton of help from someone that knew what they were doing. All I can tell you is he set up OP25 and my SDR on my hotspot freq and he watched signal on the OP25 display and where my radio was keying and saw it was way out of tune.

Ah, understandable, seems I am not alone here, heh. If you happen to talk to him and get any additional information on how to repair the out-of-tune situation I would be incredibly appreciative.

 

[KJ4DHF]

Another test he done was using the calibration host tool in WPSD for my hotspot to see where my radio was compared to the hotspot radio. Of course then that will mess up radio 1 but will help you narrow down if it is frequency related to radio 2. If radio 2 starts working then you have a starting point on what needs to be done.
Sorry I could not give you more detail on what all was done. I am shipping of 2 Astro Spectra's to have alignment and recapped,and for good measure sending out my XTS 5000 for alignment in next couple weeks.

 

[thisguyneedsabeer]

Another test he done was using the calibration host tool in WPSD for my hotspot to see where my radio was compared to the hotspot radio. Of course then that will mess up radio 1 but will help you narrow down if it is frequency related to radio 2. If radio 2 starts working then you have a starting point on what needs to be done.
Sorry I could not give you more detail on what all was done. I am shipping of 2 Astro Spectra's to have alignment and recapped,and for good measure sending out my XTS 5000 for alignment in next couple weeks.

That's great advice, out of curiosity who do you recommend for these services? I am in the Philadelphia area metro and everyone near me seems to only want to service XPR/APX units. I reached back out to a vendor about 1.5 hours north my old Ambulance Squad used to send our gear too for serivce/programming, but if I can avoid that drive up and back twice I would gladly take a shipment service.

 

[MTS2000des]

I am surprised in a major city like Philly, no MSI shop has an auto tune setup for XTS/XTLs. There is a lot more to proper tuning and alignment of one of these radios and using some cheap crap nano-VNA ain't gonna cut it. Things like TX deviation balance are critical for clean C4FM carriers and some Chinese instrument of Amazon isn't going to get you there. One needs at minimum, the test equipment outlined in the service manual, along with the skills to use it. The later test sets like Aeroflex 3920s or Freedom Technologies R8000s have an AutoTune routine available. I know, my shop bought one in 2015 and paid close to $55,000 for it with all the options and in 2020, had it calibrated and software upgraded to the tune of $3 grand.

Find a local shop- and don't pay more than an hour labor. It does take a little longer with mobiles as they need to be hooked up to more stuff like dummy loads, power supplies, etc but the actual on bench tune time is around 10-15 minutes for the AT routine to run. If a tech is doing it manually, it's about a 30-45 minute job unless the radio is whacked and way off.

 

[thisguyneedsabeer]

I am surprised in a major city like Philly, no MSI shop has an auto tune setup for XTS/XTLs.

I've been hunting through yelp like crazy. If there's a better way to go I'm all ears. I called every partner on the "Find a Partner" page in PA within a 2 hour drive of me. Best I found so far was one shop an hour away that said "we'll know the cost once we get it on the bench" and the other was $125/per radio to auto tune (and they are very local to me).

I suppose it's time to check out NJ and DE to see what they have to offer.

 

[KevinC]

I've been hunting through yelp like crazy. If there's a better way to go I'm all ears. I called every partner on the "Find a Partner" page in PA within a 2 hour drive of me. Best I found so far was one shop an hour away that said "we'll know the cost once we get it on the bench" and the other was $125/per radio to auto tune (and they are very local to me).

I suppose it's time to check out NJ and DE to see what they have to offer.

$125 is probably the hourly rate. Back when I was on the bench in the 90's we were $75 an hour and the cheapest in town.

 

[thisguyneedsabeer]

$125 is probably the hourly rate. Back when I was on the bench in the 90's we were $75 an hour and the cheapest in town.

Hourly was actually $150 but they said they would auto tune it for $125 when I finally got in at "Wireless Inc" in Philadelphia. They were incredibly nice. The service fee I'll be charged cost as much as the radio did, hah.

I called a total of 19 Moto Partners within 2 hours of me today, only 2 offered to service an XTL, one was an auto tune for $250, and the other that I took was $125. I guess everything is APX now and partners are only supporting the "main stream" offerings, which I guess makes sense.

One other shop got back to me and referred me to Sunny Communications out in Colorado. I left a VM with them and am waiting to hear back, but I figured if an alignment from them is $35-$40, shipping is going to be another $15-$20 probably, and I run the risk of package getting lost in the mail.

 

[MTS2000des]

Do not ship via the US Postal BUMS. Use UPS Ground or FedEX Ground, you have real tracking, insurance and day definite delivery versus feel like it bums who may lose, steal or destroy your radio.

Sunny's is a good shop. If they are auto tuning radios for that price, RUN don't walk over to UPS.

 

[thisguyneedsabeer]

Do not ship via the US Postal BUMS. Use UPS Ground or FedEX Ground, you have real tracking, insurance and day definite delivery versus feel like it bums who may lose, steal or destroy your radio.

Sunny's is a good shop. If they are auto tuning radios for that price, RUN don't walk over to UPS.

Hah, no doubt, especially our local post office... quick aside, even when I stop our mail when we go out of town for an extended time, they still deliver. I can't stand it.

That said, I haven't been able to confirm any pricing, still waiting on a call back from Sunny, I'll be sure to update as I come into new information.