Your expertise needed ASAP

[mrnurse]

I am a casual scanner user. I have a BCD996XT. I am also a nurse educator for the emergency dept in Peterborough. As you know we are experiencing a little thing called COVID-19. We are exploring ways to communicate with patients and the workers in the room during emergency situations using baby monitors. This brings concerns of patient privacy issues, especially with the older devices that used AM and FM.

Can anyone help me better understand the security of the newer devices that use 2.4 and 5 Ghz? Are they still able to be intercepted? Do both parts of the devices transmit in the MHz frequencies or can one half be intercepted?

Normally I would read myself, but I do not have the luxury of time.

 

[doctordialtone]

Normally I would read myself, but I do not have the luxury of time.

It depends which technology you use.

There are a few in use.

Can Digital Baby Monitors Be Hacked? Learn How To Protect Your Privacy

Can Digital Baby Monitors Be Hacked? Learn How To Protect Your Privacy
Helpful note
There are two main categories of safety considerations that parents should take into account when buying a baby monitor:

• Health safety from electromagnetic exposure
• Hacking security from privacy intrusion

In this article, we will focus on the privacy concerns that some baby monitors might cause. We recommend that you also read our report on the potential health safety concerns with some baby monitors.

Can a Baby Monitor Be Hacked? How To Protect Your Privacy

Can a baby monitor be hacked? Yes! Learn how to protect your privacy by taking a few simple steps.

babygearessentials.com

 

[mrnurse]

Ideally it looks like I would want DECT 6.0 digital tech in the device and both parts of the unit must be able to transmit and receive without a press to talk button.

 

[DaveH]

Most older baby monitors operating on 49MHz or 902-928MHz using analog (narrowband FM) offer no voice security at all and should be
avoided. Some may have been equipped with some form of "scrambling" but I would not rely on it.

I am not up on many current models, but whatever you find, check specs for "voice security", "privacy",
or "encryption". Some more recent ones including those on 2.4GHz offer some level of encryption. Protection is not absolute
as it is probably "weak" encryption, but better than none, which should prevent casual evesdropping. You will need to weigh the benefit/risk.

However, I have played around with a couple of older ones, including "The First Years True Choice P300", still available, not cheap, about $60 on sale.

Also have a look at VTech brand. I picked up a used VM 311 BU which has video. Works great but might be overkill and pricey.

Avoid using FRS/GMRS radios as they are not secure (even with voice scramble) . They do not spontaneously transmit unless PTT
is locked on which would make battery life short. VOX is possible but often problematic. Most important, TX RF could interfere with
medical devices.

Monitors on 2.4GHz may be subject to interference from WiFi and other users of that band. Another unknown is if
several of these are in close proximity, would they interfere with each other. Some use frequency-hopping which
tries to minimize interference.

Do you need audio/video, or just audio capability? The latter will be simpler and lower cost.


Dave

 

[DaveH]

Ideally it looks like I would want DECT 6.0 digital tech in the device and both parts of the unit must be able to transmit and receive without a press to talk button.

(This thread originated in Ontario (Canada) forum as it is relevant to Ontario (and other) hospitals.)

Digital technology in monitors may be similar to DECT 6 but not necessarily. You just gave me an idea. Cordless phone handset
if positioned correctly may pick up enough audio to work. Monitor patient on phone base using speakerphone (handsfree) mode, may
want to tape off the base microphone to avoid pickup at that end; or maintain, for two-way function.

Alternatively, some phones have an "intercom" function between handsets, but still requires the base unit operating (but not connected
to phone line in this case).

Dave

 

[DaveH]

(This thread originated in Ontario (Canada) forum as it is relevant to Ontario (and other) hospitals.)

Digital technology in monitors may be similar to DECT 6 but not necessarily. You just gave me an idea. Cordless phone handset
if positioned correctly may pick up enough audio to work. Monitor patient on phone base using speakerphone (handsfree) mode, may
want to tape off the base microphone to avoid pickup at that end; or maintain, for two-way function.

Alternatively, some phones have an "intercom" function between handsets, but still requires the base unit operating (but not connected
to phone line in this case).

Dave

Another thought: handset which has separate charging base (other than main base) would allow longer operation
and could hold the handset in position. These are normally part of multiple-handset packages.

Best to avoid having to recharge battery frequently.

Dave

 

[doctordialtone]

Since this is a Commercial Health Care facility, I suggest you consult your IT or Telecom Vendor.

 

[DaveH]

Since this is a Commercial Health Care facility, I suggest you consult your IT or Telecom Vendor.

Good point, use of consumer devices in medical environment may be an issue and should checked out.

Dave

 

[kayn1n32008]

Since this is a Commercial Health Care facility, I suggest you consult your IT or Telecom Vendor.

This is the correct answer.

 

[DaveH]

Yes it would be prudent for the OP to check this before going ahead with anything. I simply report some technical
detail and what might possibly work.

I know in local hospital (fortunately not there too often) that in certain treatment areas, patients are permitted to plug
in power adapters for their smartphones, tablets, laptops etc. which I am sure are not certified for medical environments.
This may occur only in certain areas but not others, but public WiFi is provided extensively. Regardless, checking with the resident
technical/regulatory "authority" is advised.

I am also aware of enterprise-grade DECT handsets which are used in such environments (hospital trauma unit)
but not using same base units as domestic phones; may be able to communicate between handsets or to another
desk phone but not sure of overall practicality. If the infrastructure is in place it might be put to use.

I did check handset audio pickup method on a Panasonic cordless system which has speakerphone, and it worked fairly well.
This could be used in a pinch as a room monitor in home situations.

Dave

 

[vagrant]

Baby monitors that offer two-way DECT/FHSS can probably be found for $20 ~ $200, depending if you want audio only or video as well. As previously noted, they can cause as well as receive interference. Testing will be needed. Your local Walmart probably has various ones in stock.

 

[mrnurse]

All good info. Thanks everyone. No telecom vendor and I am waiting to hear back from IT. They are looking at hardwiring an intercom. I only had to escalate to a VP Hadn't thought of a consumer device in the medical environment part. We are looking for rapid solutions for badness coming. Thanks again, you have given me a better perspective. Reaching out in this manner is an indication of the urgency of troubleshooting this stuff.

 

[mmckenna]

Individual baby monitors would require individual baby monitors at the nurses station, and that could be an issue with space and knowing which one is calling.

My dad was recently in the hospital and while they had a nurse call/intercom system, they also would put the nurse and nurse assistant numbers up on the white board in the patient rooms. Patients could call if needed and reach a nurse.

Ideally something better than a baby monitor will be found, but I understand having to do whatever works. IT should be able to pull in some cable, or make use of existing cable, to make a solution that will work and give you the privacy you need. I'm sure there are also IP based solutions out there that would do what you need.

 

[mrnurse]

Individual baby monitors would require individual baby monitors at the nurses station, and that could be an issue with space and knowing which one is calling.

My dad was recently in the hospital and while they had a nurse call/intercom system, they also would put the nurse and nurse assistant numbers up on the white board in the patient rooms. Patients could call if needed and reach a nurse.

Ideally something better than a baby monitor will be found, but I understand having to do whatever works. IT should be able to pull in some cable, or make use of existing cable, to make a solution that will work and give you the privacy you need. I'm sure there are also IP based solutions out there that would do what you need.

These would only be used in a code blue situation. The idea is to limit the number of staff in the room with the patient during high risk exposure procedures like cpr and inserting breathing tubes. Things like patient documentation cannot be brought in the room and we are currently using portable wifi phones on speaker to communicate when drugs are given or procedures are done with the documenting nurse outside the room. The phones suck and cut out. Baby monitors were a suggestion as being a possible solution.

 

[prcguy]

What about using Motorola DTR series FSS 900MHz radios? You should be able to set up private channel groups on those to satisfy confidentiality requirements. If they will work just get out your CC and look on Amazon.

 

[stmills]

My ER kept our old Nextel’s and used them off Network with throat mics for our DECON team to use in PAPRs. We added these to our Ebola plan for exactly what you are talking about. These would be similar in operation to Motorola DTRs, our Biomed specifically told us we were ok with 900mHz and above when we looked at UHF before we went to Nextel.

 

[mrnurse]

Finally found someone that would listen to me They are installing hardwired intercom system designed for this purpose. Thanks again everyone!!!

 

[mmckenna]

Finally found someone that would listen to me

That's usually 90% of the battle. Congratulations.

 

[kb7gjy]

As was noted before consumer grade equipment should be used very a very careful eye especially when RF is a possible issue.

Had a medic (Capt.) what had a CCR on him in the back of the bus, Ear piece, programmed up with all our freqs (Analog system). His cardiac was messing up every time he gave a report to the hospital. I couldn't reproduce the problem. Even sent the monitor in, returned "No problems found and works within spec".

It wasn't till I had him hook up the monitor on an employee and do a test including radio calls to hospital to troubleshoot. Low and behold, he failed to mention he was using his CCR instead of the mobile in the PT compartment. When he used it the problem was there, when he used his department issued handheld or the mobile, no issue. Stray RF near medical isn't a good thing.

I did not take his CCR to see what the spectrum monitor would show as I would most likely needed a medic after seeing it.

Hope this helps.

 

[slicerwizard]

"No, CCRs are great. Convince me otherwise." FFS...