Popular scanner myths

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nec208

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Can one one clear up these myths true or false and why.

A scanner or any electronic device can cause interference to hospital equipment or on a airplane.

A cell phone or high voltage power lines are bad for your heath.

And the last one power lines can cause interference to the scanner or TV.
 

br0adband

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nec208 said:
Can one one clear up these myths true or false and why.

A scanner or any electronic device can cause interference to hospital equipment or on a airplane.

All electronic devices generate some level of "interference" when powered on, that's a fact. The question becomes: does the device in question in a powered on state generate enough interference to actually cause a problem on some level. That's still up in the air... no pun intended.

nec208 said:
A cell phone or high voltage power lines are bad for your heath.

See the first answer above. As for whether the "interference" is bad for humans, well... all I'll say is we sure do seem to have a lot of health problems in our technological age we didn't have before it rolled in. Having a microwave transmitter next to your head can't possibly have zero effects health. But that's just me...

nec208 said:
And the last one power lines can cause interference to the scanner or TV.

See the first answer above. Simple answer: of course. Even simpler: yes.
 

Jimmy252

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i have a rumor/myth ive heard and am concerned about.

i heard that taking a police scanner through airport security X-rays and metal detectors clears the scanners stored memory. Is this true? if so i guess i wont be bringing mine down to florida...
 

hill

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Taking the scanner in Xray scanners in airports, does not wipe clear the memory of the radio. I have taking scanners as carryon on airplanes with no problems. I have also been in Xray scanners when attending the open house at Andrews AFB every May. When going to in the Xrays during the airshow have two scanners, extra batteries, a digital camera and all still work fine.
 

bezking

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Another popular myth is that exposure to microwave radiation can cause cancer.

Pardon the n00bishness, but does anyone have anything on this one?
 
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fineshot1

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bezking said:
Another popular myth is that exposure to microwave radiation can cause cancer.

Pardon the n00bishness, but does anyone have anything on this one?

As above - this would be difficult to answer. It depends on the microwave rf levels that would be obsorbed by an individual and for how long and exactly what range of microwave energy involved. Too many variables to give a solid answer.
 

mjthomas59

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nec208 said:
Can one one clear up these myths true or false and why.

A scanner or any electronic device can cause interference to hospital equipment or on a airplane.

A cell phone or high voltage power lines are bad for your heath.

And the last one power lines can cause interference to the scanner or TV.

#1 There is very little if any evidence to support that a scanner or cellphone will cause any issues in hospital equipment or on airplanes. The FAA put up the ban on cellphone in airplanes because they thought it would interfere with the electronics on board. To the best of my knowledge(and i believe it was mythbusters) there is absolutely no proof that a cellphone could do any harm to an aircraft. Further some airlines are now allowing the use of cellphones.

#2 High voltage powerlines can be harmful to you with prolonged exposure. Cell phones are inconclusive at best, early reports(from a few years back) claimed that cellphone use could lead to cancer, newer reports however show they have no effect. Just some history for you, after the use of radar guns by police-officers the rate of prostate cancer in LEO's went up significantly. Most officers would leave the older guns activated and put them in their lap when not trying to measure speed. Turns out that X-Band(in this particular case and what was used in early speed measuring) produced enough radiation to cause cancer.

#3 Along the lines of #2, Any electrical current has the possibility of interfering with your scanner or tv reception. Try plugging your scanner into your car outlet and see if you get some whine through the speaker. There is a reason why if you have high voltage powerlines overhead you can light up a flourescent bulb without ever making contact with the lines themselves.
 
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fineshot1

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nec208 said:
A scanner or any electronic device can cause interference to hospital equipment.

This is the most bogus one of all.

Ever notice how many hospitals are tall buildings. Take a look at these hospital roofs.
Most have a lot of paging and/or other base station transmitter antennas. Many of these
run at very high power levels(100 watts or above). Then go into the ER or hospital lobby
and notice the signs posted telling people to turn off there cell phones.

With this kind of stupidness being displayed how can they be considered credible at all.
 
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#1 Possible, yes. A single cellphone probably not; but take 25 or 50 cellphones in use at the same time on various frequencies/bands, calculate the number of intermod possibilites to the 9th order. If I'm flying on that plane; please turn your cellphones off.

Hospitals. About a year ago Mayo Clinic published a study that indicated that cellphones did not pose a threat to medical electronics.
 

DPD1

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mjthomas59 said:
#1 There is very little if any evidence to support that a scanner or cellphone will cause any issues in hospital equipment or on airplanes. The FAA put up the ban on cellphone in airplanes because they thought it would interfere with the electronics on board. To the best of my knowledge(and i believe it was mythbusters) there is absolutely no proof that a cellphone could do any harm to an aircraft. Further some airlines are now allowing the use of cellphones.

This was talked about in the past quite a bit... I like the Mythbusters, but I don't think I'm going to take their test all that seriously. Will a device like a scanner cause interference to avionics and/or possibly create an incident? Probably not. Is it possible? Under just the right set of circumstances, probably. Maybe one in a million or worse odds, but why take the risk. I think that's the view the FAA takes and probably hospitals as well. Especially since they are the ones that will get sued for NOT enforcing a ban if something went wrong. I had a friend who had a hand-held radio for work that would shut his car off every time he keyed up. I think it was less than half a watt. Turns out the comp in the car was for some weird reason susceptible to the one freq that the radio was using. Anything is possible in electronics.

Dave
http://www.dpdproductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist
 
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nec208

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All electronic devices generate some level of "interference" when powered on, that's a fact. The question becomes: does the device in question in a powered on state generate enough interference to actually cause a problem on some level. That's still up in the air... no pun intended.

br0adband or anyone what is the devices generating? And does it have to be 30 or 50 feet from the device to generate this interference?



mjthomas59 said:
#1 There is very little if any evidence to support that a scanner or cellphone will cause any issues in hospital equipment or on airplanes. The FAA put up the ban on cellphone in airplanes because they thought it would interfere with the electronics on board. To the best of my knowledge(and i believe it was mythbusters) there is absolutely no proof that a cellphone could do any harm to an aircraft. Further some airlines are now allowing the use of cellphones..

Did they thought it was because you are only 15 or 20 feet from the ER room or cockpit?


#2 High voltage powerlines can be harmful to you with prolonged exposure. Cell phones are inconclusive at best, early reports(from a few years back) claimed that cellphone use could lead to cancer, newer reports however show they have no effect. Just some history for you, after the use of radar guns by police-officers the rate of prostate cancer in LEO's went up significantly. Most officers would leave the older guns activated and put them in their lap when not trying to measure speed. Turns out that X-Band(in this particular case and what was used in early speed measuring) produced enough radiation to cause cancer.

So is it the voltage or high frequencies that lead to cancer? And have the doctors find out what brinks on the cancer?Like the doctors say trans fat can bring on cancer but they do not know why.

And x-rays or microwave seem to bring on cancer but the doctors do not know why.Look at the microwave or microwave beams or microwave weapons.

#3 Along the lines of #2, Any electrical current has the possibility of interfering with your scanner or tv reception. Try plugging your scanner into your car outlet and see if you get some whine through the speaker. There is a reason why if you have high voltage powerlines overhead you can light up a flourescent bulb without ever making contact with the lines themselves

So what causes the interference and how does electrical current causes the interference ?
 

gmclam

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Radio interference

nec208 said:
A scanner or any electronic device can cause interference to hospital equipment or on a airplane.
Yes. Not necessarily "any" electronic device, but certainly devices with oscillators in them (which includes computerized stuff). Many devices are required to go through FCC testing to make sure they do not have excessive radiation. Devices which pass these tests and are not modified will generally not be a problem. But devices which are malfunctioning or have had shielding removed or some other issue could in fact emit enough RF to interfere with other electronic equipment.

A cell phone or high voltage power lines are bad for your heath.
With regards to power lines, Google "EMF". There is a huge debate on this issue, but the problem is we need long term studies to know exact harm.

Regarding cell phones; it is all about energy level, distance to your brain, and the amount of time that energy is present. Older (analog) phones transmitted with higher power, so the time required to cause harm is less. But these days with lots of people out there unable to drive w/o a phone being held next to their head, the lower power levels are easily being compensated by the extra time of exposure.

And the last one power lines can cause interference to the scanner or TV.
Certainly. Have you ever tried to listen to a (distant) AM radio station and drove near (high voltage) power lines?
 
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nec208

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DPD1 said:
This was talked about in the past quite a bit... I like the Mythbusters, but I don't think I'm going to take their test all that seriously. Will a device like a scanner cause interference to avionics and/or possibly create an incident? Probably not. Is it possible? Under just the right set of circumstances, probably. Maybe one in a million or worse odds, but why take the risk. I think that's the view the FAA takes and probably hospitals as well. Especially since they are the ones that will get sued for NOT enforcing a ban if something went wrong. I had a friend who had a hand-held radio for work that would shut his car off every time he keyed up. I think it was less than half a watt. Turns out the comp in the car was for some weird reason susceptible to the one freq that the radio was using. Anything is possible in electronics.

Dave
http://www.dpdproductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist

May be there needs to be more research into this? And may be its not 1 or 3 cell phones but the 10 or 15 cell phones on the airplane.

But the police,fire and security keeps using radios in the hospitals here.

When I take the scanner and drive by a tower site or big tower or antenna on top of a building I have to put on the attenuator some times to pick any thing up...The scanner must get confuse what to pick up frequency xx or yy or so on.
 
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nec208

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gmclam said:
Yes. Not necessarily "any" electronic device, but certainly devices with oscillators in them (which includes computerized stuff). Many devices are required to go through FCC testing to make sure they do not have excessive radiation. Devices which pass these tests and are not modified will generally not be a problem. But devices which are malfunctioning or have had shielding removed or some other issue could in fact emit enough RF to interfere with other electronic equipment.

So you are saying a device transmits radio waves even if its a scanner,computer,ipod, calculator,boombox so on?

With regards to power lines, Google "EMF". There is a huge debate on this issue, but the problem is we need long term studies to know exact harm.

Is it the EMF or voltage in power lines?


Regarding cell phones; it is all about energy level, distance to your brain, and the amount of time that energy is present. Older (analog) phones transmitted with higher power, so the time required to cause harm is less. But these days with lots of people out there unable to drive w/o a phone being held next to their head, the lower power levels are easily being compensated by the extra time of exposure.

Certainly. Have you ever tried to listen to a (distant) AM radio station and drove near (high voltage) power lines?


Do cell phones have Electromagnetic field and this is also bad for you if its too high?
 

br0adband

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nec208 said:
So you are saying a device transmits radio waves even if its a scanner,computer,ipod, calculator,boombox so on?

Yes, exactly. Any electronic device will generate a level of Radio Frequency (RF) power that can be measured. The reason you see FCC ID numbers on pretty much every electronic device is because of such RF emissions: the FCC requires manufacturers to submit their devices for testing purposes. The FCC labs power up a device and then measure the emitted RF energy to make sure it falls within guidelines that they create based on what they have information about related to human health safety, interference with other similar and non-similar devices, etc. You can't just make something and sell it like crazy even if it's a good thing, there's a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy involved before anything that emits RF gets on the market. Scanners only receive information - they don't actively transmit on any given frequency - but they are still required to be tested just like all other receivers are.

nec208 said:
Is it the EMF or voltage in power lines?

As already stated, any electronic device when powered on generates an RF field, which is also stated in the first line of the main wiki entry (couldn't have said it better myself):

"The electromagnetic field is a physical field produced by electrically charged objects. It affects the behaviour of charged objects in the vicinity of the field.

That pretty much nips it in the bud. I bolded that last part to make note that we humans are made up of cells that have electrical charges, hence, when we are in the presence of an EMF, we are affected, always. The degree to which we're affected and the degree to which levels of harm are done is where the questions lay.

nec208 said:
Do cell phones have Electromagnetic field and this is also bad for you if its too high?

As someone above noted, older analog-based cell phones transmitted with significantly more RF power than today's digital-based transmitters. I for one still believe strongly that any microwave range transmissions in the immediate proximity of our cells and tissue is bad, period.

I find it tough to believe someone would say "High voltage power lines can be harmful to you with prolonged exposure" and then flip around and say cellphones can't, I don't see where there's any discernible difference. It's all RF energy just the same, therefore it's going to harm us, sooner or later.

In today's world of wireless communications gone rampant, everything can kill you considering that right now we're each being hammered by radio waves in all directions as opposed to what, the same situation just 50 years ago. 50 years ago we had what, TVs, TV antenna sites, broadcast radio antenna sites, and maybe a few other instances where there were powerful radio frequency sources to be concerned with, and most situations (even today) require such transmitters to be outside the general population, aka mounted in outlying areas, or on hilltops, etc.

Nowadays, everything generates RF in even closer range than the past - if anyone thinks holding a microwave transmitter next to their head doesn't do some damage on a cellular level there's simply something already wrong with the cells in their heads. :) I don't need long term testing to tell me this, it's simple fact. Microwaves disrupt cellular activity on many levels, and not just in the way that a microwave oven works either (remember, it doesn't "cook" foods, just causes them to heat up by making the cells bounce together and create friction, more or less).

Think about it: you're not going to see a report appear that says "Cellphones are killing you" without a ton of the industry mouths suddenly spending a few billion to produce 100x more reports that say "That report is fictitious and isn't to be believed." There's too much money spent already. Look at the oil/gasoline industry for lessons on that, and the tobacco industry.

Whenever I see a person take a match or a lighter and set something on fire and then inhale the smoke from that fire I think to myself, "My god, how stupid can you get?" Common sense should dictate smoke = bad for me, regardless of it being a leaf or whatever. I don't see people lighting up in the fall when the leaves fall off the trees... of course that would be bad for the tobacco industry in general. I also find it hilarious that most of the anti-smoking literature and marketing doublespeak found today is paid for by R.J. Reynolds itself. Talk about irony... go watch the movie "Thank You For Smoking" sometime, great flick and very informative.

Arsenic doesn't necessarily kill you with the first dose, it builds up over time and then you die from arsenic poisoning. I have no reason not to believe that long-term near-daily exposure to even the low levels of microwave radiation from cellular telephones is and always will be harmful to human cells, most notably brain cells since those really don't reproduce like the rest of the body's cells do.

But alas... I'm rambling now.

100x the population density and 10,000x the radio frequency activity. And we wonder why humanity is basically falling apart at the seams, almost. Go figure...
 
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nec208

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"The electromagnetic field is a physical field produced by electrically charged objects. It affects the behaviour of charged objects in the vicinity of the field.

So you need electric current to generate electromagnetic field ?And will affect any other electrically charged device?

So power lines,computers,ipods,mp3,scanners, electric appliances, radio waves, and microwaves have electromagnetic field when the device is turn on?


If so than any electronic device or electrical device have electromagnetic field (EMF) ??

Any movement of electric current in wire,PCB generate electromagnetic field ?
 

br0adband

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I don't see what's so hard to grasp here:

The sheer fact that something is electrically powered generates the EMF. If it's got electricity running through it, then yes, it will generate an electromagnetic field to some degree which can be measured. More electricity, stronger field.

Ever taken an electronic device apart or seen what something looks like inside the casing? Ever seen those chrome-plated-looking sections on a circuit board? Those are RF shields, meant to enclose a section of the components that generates significant (according to the scale of the device) RF energy and that metal "shield" is used to keep the interference that RF energy is capable of causing to a minimum.

If you were to open most any electronic device nowadays you'd either note RF shields on the circuit board, or the entire enclosure itself will have metal shielding or even aluminum foil coatings on the insides of the casing - all in the attempt to minimize the RF energy (aka radiation, technically) from getting "out" and causing interference with other electrically charged devices - that goes directly to the statement "It affects the behaviour of charged objects in the vicinity of the field.

Hope this helps.
 
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nec208

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I don't see what's so hard to grasp here:

The sheer fact that something is electrically powered generates the EMF. If it's got electricity running through it, then yes, it will generate an electromagnetic field to some degree which can be measured. More electricity, stronger field.

Just say any electronic device or electrical device generate electromagnetic field when turn on.. So any electric current generate electromagnetic field like in wire or PCB .

I'm new to this and thats why the over simplifying here.

Ever taken an electronic device apart or seen what something looks like inside the casing? Ever seen those chrome-plated-looking sections on a circuit board? Those are RF shields, meant to enclose a section of the components that generates significant (according to the scale of the device) RF energy and that metal "shield" is used to keep the interference that RF energy is capable of causing to a minimum.


It must be alot of EMF if all electronic device have to have chrome-plated-looking shield!! Why can't they make stuff where there is no EMF?
 
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br0adband

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nec208 said:
It must be alot of EMF if all electronic device have to have chrome-plated-looking shield!! Why can't they make stuff where there is no EMF?

We've done that for centuries, they're called books, animals, poetry, painting, music, hard physical labor, etc. Tons of stuff that requires no electricity at all. :)

Basic rule of thumb: if it requires electricity, it will generate some level of an EMF, period.
 

ecps92

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Only on the Ground, not in the Air. The other reason for No use of Cellphones [besides the potential to interfere with Aircraft electronics] was that a Cellphone at that elevation will attempt to hit any tower and could tie up a network by trying to connect to many towers.

mjthomas59 said:
#1 There is very little if any evidence to support that a scanner or cellphone will cause any issues in hospital equipment or on airplanes. The FAA put up the ban on cellphone in airplanes because they thought it would interfere with the electronics on board. To the best of my knowledge(and i believe it was mythbusters) there is absolutely no proof that a cellphone could do any harm to an aircraft. Further some airlines are now allowing the use of cellphones.
 
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