Alberta First Responders Radio Communication System, The winner is...

[SCPD]

So what's your prediction, GDC or Harris ?

At RFP closing Proposals were received from the following:
•General Dynamics Canada Ltd. (General Dynamics)
•M/A-COM Canada now Harris Canada Systems, Inc. (Harris)

Both Proposals failed one or more mandatory RFP requirements;
In accordance with the RFP, a Modified RFP Process was initiated October 14, 2009 with General Dynamics and Harris;

In 2010, on January 15 Modified RFP Process Proposals were received from General Dynamics and Harris.

In 2010, on July ?? RFP was awarded to ?

What is your prediction ?

 

[SCPD]

My prediction:
Harris proven VIDA Network technology P25 IP Radio Network

 

[colby4601]

I've gotta go with Harris for various different reasons. Definitely won't be surprised if they are selected.

 

[Jay911]

I am not involved any more other than as a potential user (even the vendors/consortiums that I reviewed have changed/gone away), so I guess I can comment.

Out of the two, I think that Harris has more examples of proven public safety networks, even if most of them were inherited. I can only think of one GD installation that has even rated a mention in public safety circles over the past few years.

That being said, the debacle in New York State might hurt Harris' chances a bit.

I don't have enough knowledge of any GD systems to know how they perform, but if the letter of the law, as it were, is followed, and the end result is a true, pure, non-proprietary-junk P25 system, I don't have a problem with either group.

Anyone got any experience with General Dynamics radio networks to share? What about those of you with Harris (et al) P25 systems? One of the first things on my mind is the control center application - the equivalent of the SmartZone system's ZoneWatch. What's it like, and is it easy for the average end user to operate?

 

[colby4601]

Going off the current P25 system in Saskatchewan, which is Harris BTW, and as an end user, It's a pretty good system. Now, I've only used it in the City of Regina and not on a back road, but everything from the radios to the sound to the infrastructure seems to be pretty good with the expected ups and downs of a brand new radio network. However, there seem to be very few problems with the infrastructure that I have at least been aware of. Never heard of a GD system, but if Alberta were to take a look at the system operating over here, Harris should be the winner. They've done well with Saskatchewan. First EDACS and now P25.

 

[beeperboy]

The GD bid was for Motorola infrastructure and end user gear. I hope they win, for several various selfish reasons.

BB

 

[SCPD]

The GD bid was for Motorola infrastructure and end user gear. I hope they win, for several various selfish reasons.

BB

I thought the end user gear is now a seperate RFP/RFQ Why would GD bid Motorola when they have thier own equiptment.

 

[SCPD]

Going off the current P25 system in Saskatchewan, which is Harris BTW, and as an end user, It's a pretty good system. Now, I've only used it in the City of Regina and not on a back road, but everything from the radios to the sound to the infrastructure seems to be pretty good with the expected ups and downs of a brand new radio network. However, there seem to be very few problems with the infrastructure that I have at least been aware of. Never heard of a GD system, but if Alberta were to take a look at the system operating over here, Harris should be the winner. They've done well with Saskatchewan. First EDACS and now P25.

Harris is very proud of the thier work in Saskatchewan. During any Harris dog and pony show they always mention Saskatchewan. On the other hand, they don't mention the Nevada OpenSky project, wonder why?

 

[Jay911]

The original RFP stipulated that the system must be "vendor agnostic" and allow any end user equipment regardless of manufacturer so long as it adhered to the P25 standard. I can't see them changing that and allowing proprietary stuff, especially considering the fact that the province has already stated in writing to us potential subscribing agencies that they will bear all the costs of the infrastructure and the only thing agencies will be on the hook for is their own end user (radio) equipment of their choice.

 

[beeperboy]

The original RFP stipulated that the system must be "vendor agnostic" and allow any end user equipment regardless of manufacturer so long as it adhered to the P25 standard. I can't see them changing that and allowing proprietary stuff, especially considering the fact that the province has already stated in writing to us potential subscribing agencies that they will bear all the costs of the infrastructure and the only thing agencies will be on the hook for is their own end user (radio) equipment of their choice.

Supposedly, by the time this stuff gets installed (if ever), the P25 trunking standard will be ironed out, and Motorola's radio will completely adhere to the standard. This will allow the heavy users (Police, Fire, EMS) to use high end radios, and the others to buy more affordable low end gear. Most users don't need $7500 portables, but some do.

There has to be one big player that provide the backbone/backhaul stuff, and support fairly large dispatch centres and multiple consoles. There aren't many choices out there these days. Daniels makes good base stations, but they don't build mobile radios. Zetron makes good consoles, but they don't build portable radios. If most of the infrastructure isn't purchased from a single vendor, it turns into the "he said-she said" game when pieces of the system stop talking to each other. Bin dare, done dat.

Then there's repeater site acquisition. That alone could takes months/years. That's a huge undertaking, with neither vendor owning any of their own sites at this time (as opposed to the big incumbent cell providers). I still think if this is going to fly, Telus will have to become a partner of some sort. They're the only one with enough tower sites to make a reasonable kick at the can.

Does GD make base station/portable/mobile/dispatch equipment? My search turned up bits and pieces of military/aerospace, but not a lot of LMR stuff.

BB

 

[Jay911]

Then there's repeater site acquisition. That alone could takes months/years. That's a huge undertaking, with neither vendor owning any of their own sites at this time (as opposed to the big incumbent cell providers). I still think if this is going to fly, Telus will have to become a partner of some sort. They're the only one with enough tower sites to make a reasonable kick at the can.

TELUS was in the game initially as a consortium with Motorola. That has gone away with no further explanation. I was personally championing that one mainly because of the reason you state - tower site proliferation. I figured that either of the telcos in bids (TELUS being one and Bell being the other - again, both gone now) would have been a win-win if any new tower sites had to go up, because (a) they already have a considerable network of sites in the province and (2) in the places where new sites would have to be built, you could co-locate AFRRCS and cellular and be of benefit to all parties.

There was something mentioned in the RFP that was available on the Purchasing Connection site about towers. In it, I seem to recall that the document instructed the bidders that they would use existing Government of Alberta owned sites first - which I take to mean things like FireNet, PACS, ex-MDMRS, and other such sites - then existing sites where GOA could lease space - then sites the vendor already owns (i.e. TELUS's existing network) - then brand new sites to be surveyed and constructed. This is why I was thinking it would be not too bad coverage-wise despite the system being 700MHz - because between the province's own sites and the well-developed networks of the potential bidders, a significant amount of the province was covered pretty well. Without a telco in the mix, that takes a sizable chunk of tower potential out of the equation. Granted, there's nothing that says any telco won't be part of the solution but not necessarily an official component of the winning bid.

Also: Just for the sake of interest, I've heard through the grapevine that the intent is to put the backbone/site-to-site links/etc wholly on Axia SuperNet. I guess that's a logical line of thinking.. we'll see if it comes to fruition.