Chinese Dual Band Mobiles?

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AK9R

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Where do you think the Kenwood and Yaesu radio's are made ??Along with a number of " M" radio's.
Actually, radios from the Asian companies are manufactured in several locations: Japan, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Korea, to name a few.

So, I did a quick survey around my house:

  • 5 Kenwood amateur band radios, 3 mobiles and 2 handhelds, all made in Singapore
  • 2 Yaesu amateur band handhelds both made in Japan
  • 2 Icom amateur band HF base radios both made in Japan
  • 1 Motorola public safety trunking handheld made in Mexico
The difference is not so much where the radio is made, but the intellectual property, i.e. the design of the radio, and who is supervising the manufacturing process.

Right now, the Chinese are, for the most part, copy cats. They see a feature on a "Japanese" radio and try to figure out how to copy it. They may or may not understand the underlying theory behind that feature, but they can figure out how to duplicate it. Some of this copying is downright intellectual property theft, but the Chinese seem to have a low respect for other people's IP.

As for manufacturing supervision, I have faith in Kenwood's and Yaesu's ability to ensure that their non-Japanese factories are building their products in a quality manner. I don't have the same faith in the Chinese to supervise their manufacturing processes. How many Chinese-made goods have made news recently for containing lead and other toxic chemicals? And, I don't have to worry about non-Japanese manufacturing with Icom because, as far as I know, all of their manufacturing is done in Japan.

I also don't care for the apparent lack of support for these radios in the U.S. When I have a problem with an Icom, Kenwood, or Yaesu radio, I can call their U.S.-based customer support and I can ship my broken radio to their U.S.-based service departments. Do Baofeng, Puxing, TYT, Wouxon, etc., have factory-backed support and service facilities in the U.S.?

Finally, thrifty hams who are buying these cheap, Chinese radios either don't know or don't care about the history of amateur radio companies in the U.S. American hams used to be able to buy American-made radios. Collins, Drake, Hallicrafters, Hammarlund, Heathkit, Johnson, and others were all actively producing amateur radio gear until the Japanese manufacturers showed up with less expensive radios. Where are those U.S. manufacturers now? I want to see Icom, Kenwood, and Yaesu continue to compete in the U.S. amateur radio market. That means they need to have innovative features, high performance, and reasonable price. If the amateur radio market continues to flock to these $50 handhelds, why should I/K/Y continue developing new radios?

That said, I've often thought that there was room at the low end of the market. Remember how popular the Radio Shack HTX-202 was? That was a simple, basic handheld with great performance and a reasonable price. Hams loved them. An entry-level ham may not be interested in all the whistles and bells, but they need a reliable radio that's easy to operate. Could I/K/Y compete at that end of the market?

IF they can pass the FCC specs, there is no reason to think
that they are ALL junk ?
Don't kid yourself.

The FCC does not test radios for certification. The certification testing is done by independent labs. The FCC merely takes the lab's word for it that a radio meets FCC technical standards.
 
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riverrat373

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I have to agree with most of what W9BU said. I especially agree with the statement that the "Big 3" need to offer some simple, easy to use basic radios that are also affordable. As a soon to be (I hope!) ham I have been downloading the manuals to all the radios that catch my eye and I find a common thread in all of them. They can be very complicated to program and use!
 

Robinsmark

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RE Chinese Mobiles

If you thought about what I said, others may also have thought about it too.
And realized that I may have a point ....

I have a couple Chinese handhelds that work as well as anything else,
and one of them has been dropped a number of times and is still working fine.

I have been watching the Chinese exporters, and there are a number of them
that are selling part 90 (and maybe a few part 95) radio's ,
IF they can pass the FCC specs, there is no reason to think
that they are ALL junk ????

Well, #1 Time will tell! Lets see how your radio works 3, 4 or 5 years from now! #2 The non ham radios you refer to are made to a tighter spec. I'll put my IFR service Monitor up against your "opinion" and what your "ear" hears and we'll see if they work just as well as anything else.
 

N4DXX

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I have tested on a service minitor

Well, #1 Time will tell! Lets see how your radio works 3, 4 or 5 years from now! #2 The non ham radios you refer to are made to a tighter spec. I'll put my IFR service Monitor up against your "opinion" and what your "ear" hears and we'll see if they work just as well as anything else.

I have tested a wouxun kg-819 vhf only commercial radio against a yaesu vx 150...The wouxun won on rx and tx..The wouxun had 1/4 watt more power on tx and i could break the squelch on the wouxun with less input from the generator..Build quality can't be beat for less than 50 bucks plain and simple..
 
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k8zgw

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Build quilty

Most of the folks that are "bad mouthing" these radios,
have never had the chance to actually have one in their hands...
I would think there might be some that are junk, but not all of them.
I really haven't had my "Golden Spring" that long, but it looks and works well.
I have had my Quansheng TM810 for over a year. It is built like a tank,
does 5 watts ( or 2 on low power) and works the same as my Kenwood..

Don
 

N4KVE

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It's not the lack of quality many complain about, but the difficulty to program. On a trip to a hamfest, Larry handed me a Wouxun to play with. I've played with many radios, & while I was able to enter the rx freq, I was unable to enter the offset, & PL tone. Remember, we were on the road, & there were no laptops in the car. However later on another friend handed me his new Icom which I had never seen before, & I was able to enter the freq, offset, & PL tone in a minute. It's not always convenient to have a laptop available. That's why the radio has buttons, to be keypad programmable. [easily] Otherwise, we might as well carry Motorola radios.
 

k8zgw

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Gary;
That one, I'll give you - but it doesn't pose a problem for me.
The Quansheng TM810 is a 16 channel UHF only , 3 channels used
for local police and fire ( receive only) and 2 used for my GMRS and "demo"
repeaters, while the other 11 are in the ham band.
The radio works from 423 to 469 with no problems.

The "golden spring" while it IS field programmable, as you said, it is NOT easy.

I guess it all comes down to what you "need" . . . . . .


Don
 

kayn1n32008

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I have tested a wouxun kg-819 vhf only commercial radio against a yaesu vx 150...The wouxun won on rx and tx..The wouxun had 1/4 watt more power on tx and i could break the squelch on the wouxun with less input from the generator..Build quality can't be beat for less than 50 bucks plain and simple..


A 1/4w make less than ZERO difference in talk out ability... You need 6db increase in power (20w vs 5w for just for a SINGLE S-unit increase of signal strength... Now, the receive IS interesting to see... Have you done selectivity performance comparison?


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WB4CS

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I have to agree with most of what W9BU said. I especially agree with the statement that the "Big 3" need to offer some simple, easy to use basic radios that are also affordable. As a soon to be (I hope!) ham I have been downloading the manuals to all the radios that catch my eye and I find a common thread in all of them. They can be very complicated to program and use!

Simple, basic, affordable radios from the "Big 3"

Kenwood:
Kenwood TH-K20A 2 Meter handheld. Currently $135
Kenwood TM-281A 2 Meter mobile, Currently $137

Yaesu:
Yaesu FT-60R 2/70 Handheld, Currently $142
Yaesu FT-270R 2 Meter Handheld, Currently $118
Yaesu FT-2900R 2 Meter mobile, Currently $139
Yaesu FT-1900R 2 Meter mobile, Currently $125

Icom:
Icom IC-V80-HD 2 Meter Handheld, Currently $141

Sure, none of these are in the $50 range but you get what you pay for. For less than $150 you can take your pick from the list above and have a well built, dependable radio from the "Big 3" that are all basic and affordable radios.
 
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N4KVE

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That Yaesu FT-270R or it's UHF version, would be my pick of the litter. Loud rx audio, easy to use, & built like a brick. Oh, did I mention it's easy to program from the keypad?
 

kayn1n32008

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That Yaesu FT-270R or it's UHF version, would be my pick of the litter. Loud rx audio, easy to use, & built like a brick. Oh, did I mention it's easy to program from the keypad?


Agreed. The FT-270(and VX-170) and the FT-277 are my pick of the litter for portables. I own a VX-170 and FT-277, for the most part. The only issue is with the stock antennas, they do suck. But with better aftermarket, or the vertex commercial antennas as replacements they do well in the Ham bands.


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902

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Actually, radios from the Asian companies are manufactured in several locations: Japan, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Korea, to name a few.

(snip)

The difference is not so much where the radio is made, but the intellectual property, i.e. the design of the radio, and who is supervising the manufacturing process.

Right now, the Chinese are, for the most part, copy cats. They see a feature on a "Japanese" radio and try to figure out how to copy it. They may or may not understand the underlying theory behind that feature, but they can figure out how to duplicate it. Some of this copying is downright intellectual property theft, but the Chinese seem to have a low respect for other people's IP.

(snipping through more great stuff)

Don't kid yourself.

The FCC does not test radios for certification. The certification testing is done by independent labs. The FCC merely takes the lab's word for it that a radio meets FCC technical standards.

You made two points that caught my attention. The first is copycatting and intellectual property. I heard this anecdote from a college professor in 1981 - amazing I even remember it, my story is probably the Joe Walsh warped record version, but it still makes the point: He was a gun collector and came across a rifle someone was able to get back from Asia (don't know how, it was the Vietnam era). Apparently the serial number was a duplicate. Then he realized it was a knockoff gun that was recreated down to the lettering. He made the same observation you did. Something like they don't know what it does or what it's used for, but they figured everything needed to be there. Guess whomever made it thought the serial number was integral to the rifle. Same thing with fashion stuff, except there we call it counterfeit. The software and user interface to these radios seems to be an issue, too. I've had friends tell me they are glad they only work one repeater because changing frequencies is "weird." Guess they haven't mastered the same degree of intuitive operation that the Japanese have had a few decades along with US feedback to work on.

Your other point that hit me - testing labs. 100% on the money! Anyone who wants to spend the money can have a product tested by a lab (who is working for the customer, BTW) and submitted for type acceptance. In fact, a few people were tossing the idea around that it might have been worthwhile for them to narrowband with certain circuitry changes and reducing deviation, than it would have been to do a wholesale replacement of equipment.

Something to ponder about Chinese radios since there have been discussions about their capabilities: 90.203 (e), (f), and (g) [spoiler: they aren't supposed to transmit everywhere right out of the box, the FCC's exact wording is a must-read]. Everyone who reads the forums knows how that ended. So how thorough were these third party testing labs that certified compliance?

Personally, I think two things: 1) the Chinese government is artificially subsidizing the cost of these things and saturating the US to either kill-off traditional competitors or somehow introduce less reliable communications equipment; and 2) every penny I send that way will come back someday in the form of an aircraft carrier.
 

N4DXX

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A 1/4w make less than ZERO difference in talk out ability... You need 6db increase in power (20w vs 5w for just for a SINGLE S-unit increase of signal strength... Now, the receive IS interesting to see... Have you done selectivity performance comparison?


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I have not tested selectivity as i am limited in my test equipment's ability to do so..However i have yet to overload or have any intermod issues with the wouxun or the baofeng radio's they handle noisy areas as good as any i have used in the past..Of the other 3 big names none are made in the USA Other than Ten-Tec so whats the argument if you buy a yaesu or kenwood or wouxun your not helping accomplish anything,So now if i drop my 36.00 Baofeng i can throw it away and buy another..I have used all makes and models at one time or another and these are very well constructed for the cheap price you can buy them for..
 

JustLou

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I have not tested selectivity as i am limited in my test equipment's ability to do so..However i have yet to overload or have any intermod issues with the wouxun or the baofeng radio's they handle noisy areas as good as any i have used in the past..Of the other 3 big names none are made in the USA Other than Ten-Tec so whats the argument if you buy a yaesu or kenwood or wouxun your not helping accomplish anything,So now if i drop my 36.00 Baofeng i can throw it away and buy another..I have used all makes and models at one time or another and these are very well constructed for the cheap price you can buy them for..

+1
My Baofengs work very well, and cost about the same as what I've paid for new batteries for my Japanese radios. I bought a $5 cable and program them with Chirp.
 
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