FCC NPRM MD Docket No. 20-270 changing FCC fee structure, including Amateur Radio. $50 for new licenses and renewals and Vanity License Applications

[ArkTex]

Not meaning to Necro an old thread, but as far as the $50 fee is concerned, that right there killed my interest in being a Ham for a long while.

I'll stick to my Public safety radios and scanners for now. Maybe when I get a EM job down the line I'll look into ham some more for RACES purposes. As far as me the college student is concerned, costs is a huge barrier to entry for an otherwise exciting hobby.

But hey, at least CB exists?

 

[alcahuete]

Not meaning to Necro an old thread, but as far as the $50 fee is concerned, that right there killed my interest in being a Ham for a long while.

I'll stick to my Public safety radios and scanners for now. Maybe when I get a EM job down the line I'll look into ham some more for RACES purposes. As far as me the college student is concerned, costs is a huge barrier to entry for an otherwise exciting hobby.

But hey, at least CB exists?

It was actually reduced to $30, and that's for 10 years. There is not a college student out there who can't afford $30. Sorry. It is not a huge barrier to entry. It's not even a small barrier to entry.

But hey, there's always CB for those who can't afford $3/year.

 

[GlobalNorth]

The proposed FCC fees for Amateur radio are virtually nothing. Buying a 2 meter radio has some cost but so do the coax, the connectors, the antenna, the coax sealer tape and mastic, wire, crimping tools, wire strippers, soldering iron, drill, drill bits, hole saw, etc. Being a new ham is not inexpensive unless someone is willing to donate gear or tools.

Want to do HF? it's even more costly.

 

[AK9R]

There was a rumor going around this week that the FCC was going to implement the new application fees starting July 15.

Apparently, that's not entirely true.

The FCC Media Bureau will start collecting the new fees from broadcasters start July 15. Amateur Radio falls under the Mobility Division of the Wireless Technology Bureau, not the Media Bureau.

Allegedly, the FCC is meeting with the Volunteer Examiner Coordinators (ARRL, Laurel, W5YI, etc.) on July 15 to discuss how to collect the amateur radio application fee.

 

[k6cpo]

There was a rumor going around this week that the FCC was going to implement the new application fees starting July 15.

Apparently, that's not entirely true.

The FCC Media Bureau will start collecting the new fees from broadcasters start July 15. Amateur Radio falls under the Mobility Division of the Wireless Technology Bureau, not the Media Bureau.

Allegedly, the FCC is meeting with the Volunteer Examiner Coordinators (ARRL, Laurel, W5YI, etc.) on July 15 to discuss how to collect the amateur radio application fee.

If it turns out that the FCC requires the VECs to collect the license fee, I will quit as a VE. It's not our responsibility to collect fees for the government.

 

[alcahuete]

If it turns out that the FCC requires the VECs to collect the license fee, I will quit as a VE. It's not our responsibility to collect fees for the government.

There are really only two options:

1) VE collects along with whatever other fees the VE might charge.
2) VE doesn't collect. Call sign is withheld until the user goes into the licensing system and pays the fee.

#2 makes the most sense, but would also require the most work out of the FCC. I don't think they're willing to put in that work, sadly.

 

[GlobalNorth]

The FCC would be disinclined to allow VEs to collect revenue, since the potential for criminal redirection of money is introduced.

The likely method would be akin to how the FCC collects fees for commercial LMR now - plug in your info and FRN into the FCC website. The website then would direct the payee to a site that accepts credit/debit cards for payment of applicable fees. After the payment is made, a verification code would be issued and a receipt could be printed out. The applicant would take a copy of the fee receipt to their VE and give them a copy that would be sent in along with all other documents for the applicant and the grant issued.

The applicant pays the government directly, the FCC handles the money, the VE needs only handle one more piece of paper, and the grant issuance is not held up.

 

[tweiss3]

There are really only two options:

1) VE collects along with whatever other fees the VE might charge.
2) VE doesn't collect. Call sign is withheld until the user goes into the licensing system and pays the fee.

#2 makes the most sense, but would also require the most work out of the FCC. I don't think they're willing to put in that work, sadly.

It wouldn't require ANY work from the FCC. VEC put in the passing result online, FCC sends an automated email to the individual, they log on and pay with credit card through the already available payment portal, payment posts in 24-48 hours. They already have this process for GMRS licenses, it would be cake to set it up for ham.

 

[littona]

The problem is that the FCC systems aren't setup for a scenario like this. As a commercial entity, if I want a license, I go online and enter the information, submit the necessary attachments, then pay for it with a credit card. What may have to happen on the VE side is they provide the ham with paperwork that says that they passed and then they'd go apply for a license. That leads to issues of potential fraud, but without ARRL or somebody setting up a database that the FCC can reference, I'm not sure how else it could be done. But then again, adding another database requires more coding that nobody wants to do either!

 

[tweiss3]

The problem is that the FCC systems aren't setup for a scenario like this. As a commercial entity, if I want a license, I go online and enter the information, submit the necessary attachments, then pay for it with a credit card. What may have to happen on the VE side is they provide the ham with paperwork that says that they passed and then they'd go apply for a license. That leads to issues of potential fraud, but without ARRL or somebody setting up a database that the FCC can reference, I'm not sure how else it could be done. But then again, adding another database requires more coding that nobody wants to do either!

All the VE's in my area have transition to 100% online submissions, and call signs are currently issued next day 12 hours later. All of the systems are already in place, just a few minor scripts and its complete.

 

[alcahuete]

It wouldn't require ANY work from the FCC.

The "work" I'm speaking of is adjusting the back-end system to handle it. Like you say, it's just a few minor scripts, and that is 100% accurate, but after all, this is the FCC we're talking about. If they are meeting with the VEs to discuss this, it obviously isn't something they have completed yet.

Also, if the FCC was planning to simply adjust the back-end system, why meet with the VEs at all? Why not just send them an email detailing the new system and how it works. No need to meet with the VEs to discuss options. That's why personally, I'm not so sure that's what the FCC is going to do. Does it make the most sense to do it that way? Absolutely.

 

[GlobalNorth]

Agreed. If the FCC is talking to VEs, then nothing is decided as of yet.

 

[n5ims]

The odds on bet (based on someone representing one of the VEC groups) is that the VE testing routine will not change. The VEs will make sure that the tester has their FRN and processes everything as being done currently (and that includes requiring a valid email address for the FCC to communicate with the tester/licensee). Once the VEC uploads the results of a testing session to the FCC, they process it and this is where the change happens. Instead of simply assigning a callsign (or processing the upgrade), the FCC will hold the application and send an email with a link to the FCC payment processing system. Once payment is made through that system it will release that application, call sign assigned (or license class changed) and an email is sent to the ham with their new license grant info and a link to the ULS so they can print out their new license.

It is expected that everything has been decided by the FCC at this point and the 7/15 conference call is mostly to notify the VEC organizations about the official changes to the process and exact date it will take affect. Now there is the remote possibility that the VECs may bring up something that throws a monkey wrench into what the FCC has decided but this is not likely (the VECs have already had several chances to discuss the changes with the FCC so most likely if something is brought up during the 7/15 conference call the FCC will simply tell them to pound sand but change is still possible).

 

[vagrant]

The $35 I will now save every 10 years on my GMRS license will cover my Amateur license fee. I win!

 

[K2KOH]

They haven't charged me for my vanity call sign application. I guess when they grant it? Feds never met a fee they didn't like LOL

 

[alcahuete]

They haven't charged me for my vanity call sign application. I guess when they grant it? Feds never met a fee they didn't like LOL

The fees haven't gone into effect yet. You won't be charged, most likely.

 

[k6cpo]

There are really only two options:

1) VE collects along with whatever other fees the VE might charge.
2) VE doesn't collect. Call sign is withheld until the user goes into the licensing system and pays the fee.

#2 makes the most sense, but would also require the most work out of the FCC. I don't think they're willing to put in that work, sadly.

Our VEC agrees with me...

It wouldn't require ANY work from the FCC. VEC put in the passing result online, FCC sends an automated email to the individual, they log on and pay with credit card through the already available payment portal, payment posts in 24-48 hours. They already have this process for GMRS licenses, it would be cake to set it up for ham.

This would be the preferred scenario. The candidate pays the license fee AFTER passing the examination.

 

[GlobalNorth]

This would be the preferred scenario. The candidate pays the license fee AFTER passing the examination.

What happens when you do all the paperwork and testing, yet the applicant delays or never pays the FCC?

Applicants should pay up front to the FCC to demonstrate positive intent.

 

[vagrant]

Taking the test to me demonstrates positive intent. Some individuals will fail, and fail again, regardless of fees involved before today and after.

Alternatively, one does not need to be a VE if they perceive the test applicants are not demonstrating positive intent by not paying before testing. Others will step in. Still, I don't have a problem with a VE if they feel this way. It's just a personal difference and definitely nothing wrong with that.

What happens when you do all the paperwork and testing, yet the applicant delays or never pays the FCC?

Applicants should pay up front to the FCC to demonstrate positive intent.

 

[n5ims]

What happens when you do all the paperwork and testing, yet the applicant delays or never pays the FCC?

Applicants should pay up front to the FCC to demonstrate positive intent.

Basically the VE and VEC will get paid to do what they are supposed to do which is to give the test, grade it, and file the results with the FCC. If the applicant doesn't pay they won't get their license. I suspect that there will be a timeframe for applicants to pay the fee to the FCC and if they don't do so the application is rejected and the applicant will need to start over. At this point it isn't know if they'll simply have to show their CSCE and have the FCC grant them another time frame to pay or if the testing session becomes null and void once the FCC rejects the application and the applicant will then need to retest. I believe that the VE will still need to be paid their fee even if they just have to show the CSCE to restart the process.