Harris XL-200P Full Spectrum Radio

[Thunderknight]

The way Harris does keyloading is via a modified programming cable that also transports encryption keys, using software to manage the encryption keys. That software uses an installation protection system that's fairly robust.

Actually many Harris radios can be key loaded with their software OR with a Motorola KVL.

 

[DisasterGuy]

True, there are several ways to keyload on Harris. Also, as of last year, there is a P25 standard for initial keyloading. There also has been for a while an OTAR/KMF standard and inter-KMF standards were recently updated.

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[radioman2001]

[QUOTE=ElroyJetson;2455311
An SSE5000 would be nice to add to the list, too. EVENTUALLY I think NYPD will surplus all 10,000 of them out, having spent millions to buy them and then never having deployed most of them even once.

There really wasn't a lot of them to start with not 10K not even 2K if I remember right (maybe 600??), because Motorola wouldn't build NYPD a special radio that still used all the Saber accy's so they went Vertex and NYPD then didn't need that many radios for replacement. NYPD replaces radios by Borough and over many years. I was told by the NYPD shop when I worked at Motorola that they use a 5 year replacement plan so that they can slowly introduce new radios and if there are problems (As was the HT-220 and the first MX-S's built special for them) it wouldn't be the whole City they had to fix, and could go back to the old radios relatively quickly. Also the SSE was an afterthought (bastard really of a Astro Saber) to try and get NYPD back into the fold, and you probably will never see those radios when retired. Motorola had a deal with NYPD to destroy any of the Motorola radios when done with them as some sort of extra price incentive. Motorola's way of preventing them from getting into the used market and lowering the value of the product for replacement with new radios. You have no idea how many radios I pickaxed and slammed with sledge hammers over the years.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Interesting. I had heard, some years ago, that Motorola would only make a unique radio type if you bought 10,000 of them and that was how the SSE5000 came to be. So there are a few thousand of them but less tha 10,000? Obviously not all rumors are accurate. Gee, what a revelation!

 

[radioman2001]

Quote"
I had heard, some years ago, that Motorola would only make a unique radio type if you bought 10,000 of them. "

Not true, I had to make up a special Systems 90 control head for NYC Transit PD back in the late 70's. We only made about 50 of them. There was also a special product control head for NYPD for the Micor/Syntor with no squelch control (was located inside the radio package) and super bright LEDS for PTT and ON/OFF instead of incandescent lamps.

See what happens when you don't drink the kool-aid, they thought they lost NYPD after they bought the Vertex radio so they made that bastard child. BTW I believe the reason Motorola bought a controlling interest in Vertex was a result of that purchase.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Systems 90 control heads...thanks for awakening that nightmare memory.

I think I still have the master Systems 90 configuration diagram. If you knew how to read it,
you could configure any combination that was compatible.

I've done enough Systems 90 configurations that it stopped being fun. Which is any more than one such configuration, apparently.

 

[radioman2001]

Me too, especially when you try and put 10 radios in an early Paramedic Responce station wagon and wire so there is only one mic.

 

[MTS2000des]

evalution in progress

We have been evaluating the XL-200 (along with other vendors' products) for future procurement.

I have been playing with an XL-200P for a few days now. Finally got to sit down and write a mission plan for mine. I will tell you that I am NOT a fan of RPM2, I get that Harris is SERIOUS about software/system security, but the overall layout of RPM2 is confusing/perplexing. Contrast that with EF Johnson's Armada suite, it is almost as bad as the catastrophe that is APX CPS.

EF Johnson should get an award for Armada. I have never programmed an EFJ trunking/P25 subscriber unit EVER, and with about 10 minutes of instructions, built 3 templates and programmed all 3 of our demo radios in under an hour.From scratch. Including a bunch of VHF ham and interop stuff in the VP900.

That being said, the XL-200 is an AWESOME radio once you get past the headache that RPM-2 is. Superb performance on all four bands, solid feel, and the audio is really LOUD even when you are across a room. Harris put a lot of thought into this radio. It is REAL competition for the APX8000 and takes it to the next level.

Mission plans are a great concept, but they really should find who wrote Armada for EFJ and hire them, as should everyone else. IMO, the VP600 and VP900 are top contenders in my personal book. I love the hardware but the programming software for them wins hands down. And when you're in charge of programming/maintaining hundreds or thousands of radios, that means more than a sexy product.

But I like what I see Harris. Keep it coming. It is also cool to carry ONE "for real" radio I can use on both ham bands, my trunking system, and anything else in between.

 

[cmdcomm]

Why don't you post a few picks of the XL-200? I am sure everyone here would love to see actual pictures of a radio in the field.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Gotta ask...how are mission plans different from regular radio personalities?

 

[MTS2000des]

 

[MTS2000des]

 

[MTS2000des]

Gotta ask...how are mission plans different from regular radio personalities?

Mission plans are like complete codeplugs, the XL-200 can have up to 10. They can be user selected from a menu, or can be selected only in RPM2. They are like having completely different radio codeplugs complete with their own ergonomic settings, radio IDs, scan lists, etc that can be assigned by task, intended users, etc.

Best application I can think of would be to load up mission plans for cache radios, e.g., put PD, Fire, EMS and EMA/EOC all in there, then just pick the one needed before you issue one from your cache.

I've spent quite a bit of time with the radio today, mostly listening to my ham repeater, but spent some time testing it on our Astro 25 7.14 network too, and it does a great job. Between this and the EFJ VP900 I am also testing/evaluating, I like them both. While the EFJ is not as flashy, it is also half the price, and a full production radio. Performance on both is good, will put them on the R8000 soon and see how they stack up.

One thing that stands out is the RX audio. Harris claims 1.5w of AF. I believe it. What it does have (comparable in design to the APX7000) is a dual speaker design, except it is "opposite" of Motorola, that is, the main speaker is actually on the rear, with three ports around the belt clip! The front speaker is actually a tweeter, yes, you heard correct. Separate speakers. The Harris rep says they are custom built by Harmon-Kardon for Harris. I certainly believe they took a unique route. The audio is not just LOUD but very clear, even across a room. Or if worn on your belt without an RSM.

Funny story, was in a Mexican joint I frequent after work last night, and some guy got all butt hurt because he sat there for a good 45 minutes, I was on my UHF analog repeater and this guy commented that my radio was too loud and he could "hear everything I was saying and not everyone wanted to hear it". I hated being that guy, but had he said something BEFORE pouting I would have adjusted the volume or tried Bluetooth (will pair with COTS headsets just fine). Anyway, he was sitting 20 feet away. Needless to say, it is a very audible unit even at a moderate volume. The sound really does carry further than my XTS5000s do.

The radio also has three microphones. One is the primary, and can be RPM selected, the others work to actively cancel noise.

 

[NavyBOFH]

Now this is heating up well. I have an interview with a Motorola shop this week or next and I do love their products (enough to be chasing down the owner of the shop to work for him), but that Harris and even the VP900 would be my pick for a personal radio unless Motorola (and my potential employer) would sell one for a more competitive price.


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[ElroyJetson]

Mission plans....neat. I was thinking about that that general concept recently.

It'd make total sense to program up EVERY radio to be deployed in a system all the same way, except for logical ID numbers, of course, and then select the appropriate mission plan for a given user right there with the radio's own controls.

I'm sure Motorola is wishing they'd implemented that a while back. They will play catch-up, I bet.

That 200 looks pretty interesting. I wonder what the base price is for one? (Say VHF conventional P25 for starters.)

 

[MTS2000des]

Mission plans....neat. I was thinking about that that general concept recently.

It'd make total sense to program up EVERY radio to be deployed in a system all the same way, except for logical ID numbers, of course, and then select the appropriate mission plan for a given user right there with the radio's own controls.

It's a great concept at who this radio is targeted at: brass, EMA, FEMA, etc. OTOH, don't know how often I would find changing them in my system. We try to keep templates/codeplugs to an absolute minimums, "one offs" are a case by case basis at the discretion of division chiefs.

That being said, it's not like you HAVE to implement them. Harris does need to work on RPM2, IMO, it is not as sloppy as APX, but it took me a good amount of time to build a codeplug for the ones we have, we only have 1 P25 system and several zones of conventional analog and interop. It is kind of redundant and confusing. But at least it doesn't slow to a crawl like APX R14 does. And I am using a brand new i5 Win7 64 bit business class desktop with 8GB of RAM.

I'm sure Motorola is wishing they'd implemented that a while back. They will play catch-up, I bet.

That's the sad part, I am admittedly Motorola guy (personal choice) but where I work they are open to any product that will perform at the best price, which is how it SHOULD be. Fair and real competition. And there is some these days in the multi-band P25 market. The EFJ VP900 should be a SERIOUS choice for anyone who needs a VHF/7/8 portable. It is literally half the cost of a comparably equipped APX7000, comes standard with P25 compliant single key DES encryption AND "ARC4 ADP compatible" welfare encryption is available.

The VP900 is IMO, a more refined design. And I can't say enough good things about Armada. Once you use it, it is painful to go back to other radio programming software.

None the less, Motorola needs to re-evaluate their pricing structure. The APX8000 is an awesome product, but when you start adding up the options, $12 grand. Absurd. $6 grand is atrocious. The EFJ is half of that fully equipped or less, and comes with a 2 year warranty. It's a solid radio that is well made. One more thing, the EFJ has superb audio AGC on both analog and digital. Doesn't clip or pump and works very well to tame mike eaters and soft talkers.

That 200 looks pretty interesting. I wonder what the base price is for one? (Say VHF conventional P25 for starters.)

Don't know, but I know it can be ordered as single band only, and it is a true SDR. No trips to the factory/depot if you want more band(s). Just buy the software upgrade, same for encryption and other software features. Buy only what you need, and more later without cracking open the case. (Except adding LTE, which does require a trip to the service center, as it is a separate RF board).

Harris says the 200 will support VoLTE in the next 6 months. This is, with their BeONP25 platform, means your P25 system can go beyond LMR.

Harris has seen the future of public safety, and it has LTE in it, like it or not. They are getting ready for it now with this product line.

 

[NavyBOFH]

It's a great concept at who this radio is targeted at: brass, EMA, FEMA, etc. OTOH, don't know how often I would find changing them in my system. We try to keep templates/codeplugs to an absolute minimums, "one offs" are a case by case basis at the discretion of division chiefs.

That being said, it's not like you HAVE to implement them. Harris does need to work on RPM2, IMO, it is not as sloppy as APX, but it took me a good amount of time to build a codeplug for the ones we have, we only have 1 P25 system and several zones of conventional analog and interop. It is kind of redundant and confusing. But at least it doesn't slow to a crawl like APX R14 does. And I am using a brand new i5 Win7 64 bit business class desktop with 8GB of RAM.



That's the sad part, I am admittedly Motorola guy (personal choice) but where I work they are open to any product that will perform at the best price, which is how it SHOULD be. Fair and real competition. And there is some these days in the multi-band P25 market. The EFJ VP900 should be a SERIOUS choice for anyone who needs a VHF/7/8 portable. It is literally half the cost of a comparably equipped APX7000, comes standard with P25 compliant single key DES encryption AND "ARC4 ADP compatible" welfare encryption is available.

The VP900 is IMO, a more refined design. And I can't say enough good things about Armada. Once you use it, it is painful to go back to other radio programming software.

None the less, Motorola needs to re-evaluate their pricing structure. The APX8000 is an awesome product, but when you start adding up the options, $12 grand. Absurd. $6 grand is atrocious. The EFJ is half of that fully equipped or less, and comes with a 2 year warranty. It's a solid radio that is well made. One more thing, the EFJ has superb audio AGC on both analog and digital. Doesn't clip or pump and works very well to tame mike eaters and soft talkers.



Don't know, but I know it can be ordered as single band only, and it is a true SDR. No trips to the factory/depot if you want more band(s). Just buy the software upgrade, same for encryption and other software features. Buy only what you need, and more later without cracking open the case. (Except adding LTE, which does require a trip to the service center, as it is a separate RF board).

Harris says the 200 will support VoLTE in the next 6 months. This is, with their BeONP25 platform, means your P25 system can go beyond LMR.

Harris has seen the future of public safety, and it has LTE in it, like it or not. They are getting ready for it now with this product line.

Harris has always been my vote - but hate they've been the underdog for so long. They've dominated the military market for decades for for good reason - they've been able to survive the desert, ships, explosions/shock/filth - and be maintained/operated by ANYONE. I call myself a pretty competent tech and have seen some true mouth-breathers repair a Harris radio with ease.

Sadly no Harris dealers exist around here or I'd have been barking at their door for employment - I think they have a good future coming and this radio is going to be their kick-off.

As for EFJ - I got to play with their Viking Fire recently and they are really onto something with that radio. I am hoping the county my wife works for will allow personal equipment because I'd buy one for her in a heartbeat. She works EMS/Rescue and I'd give her that knowing her life and job could count on it.

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[DisasterGuy]

Typical street price on the 200p with all band, AES encryption and accessories is right around $5k. Single band flavors without encryption are much less. I have yet to see the street price on the APX8000.

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[ElroyJetson]

You say Harris has seen the future with LTE. I agree. But LTE is only a step down the path.

My prediction for public safety radio systems is that they will become increasingly less dependent
on application specific hardware such as your existing trunking sites in various formats. Although
there will be a need for high powered, long range trunking sites as long as there aren't enough lower
powered, short range cells to provide complete coverage, I see that the future is heading toward
more of a cell site methodology, that being of reduced coverage cells but more of them. Continuing down the path, think public safety over wifi networks.

In particular, think of public safety communications via VOIP and related technologies over the 4.9 GHz wifi allocations exclusively reserved for public safety applications, but which is, currently, severely under-utilized in most markets..

The evolution is clear: From large, expensive, high power, long ranges sites to medium sized, less expensive, medium power shorter range cell sites and more of them, to low power, low cost, short range wifi sites scattered everywhere. Rather than blanket the area with big signals, put low level signals everywhere you need them and the installation becomes cheap and simple.

Everything is moving toward IP based connectivity. Expect that to continue. Eventually, only the most basic customer needs will be serviced by point-to-point, simplex or repeater based voice radios, and even then, they will eventually become all digital. The day's going to come when it's easier to make digital radios than analog radios simply because of gained expertise in making them.


As for the public safety handset of the future, it'll be a ruggedized smartphone with a few carefully chosen tactile controls and a few other specialized features needed for public safety use, such as noise cancelling microphones and good quality speakers with high audio output.

The most complicated challenge will be to create a public safety grade radio with a touch screen that won't get its screen broken twice a month or accidentally selecting the wrong app. The touch screen may actually be so impractical that it'll have to stick with edge of display buttons instead.

 

[radioman2001]

I see at least one problem with Cell Site type of radios for Public safety, most cell sites don't follow Public Safety areas of operation. Bad enough on a Trunked System you allow someone 20 miles away to monitor his/her home group. That's going to be a lot of frequencies not being reused locally.

Let's take NYPD or even Westchester County for an instance, you have vehicles all over the city/county monitoring a particular wide area frequency for dispatch or even more important emergency traffic, translate that into how many cell sites would have to give up a frequency or voice path to accomplish that based on each radio or handset requiring it's own frequency and or voice path. So as an alternative (not a very good one) you end up with a high power cell covering a large area, now with no reuse. Frequencies are a finite resource and saying yea cell technology will allow reuse, but actually not at least in the Public safety model.

Quote"
In particular, think of public safety communications via VOIP and related technologies over the 4.9 GHz wifi allocations exclusively reserved for public safety applications, but which is, currently, severely under-utilized in most markets"

Most are only paper licensed, we tried to get some of that spectrum, but NYPD claimed all of it for 100 miles in and around NYC.