HYTERA TO STOP ALL TWO WAY RADIOS SALES EFFECTIVE 04-07-2024

[paulears]

A lot of legal folk are talking about this, not that they remotely know what a radio is. Their opinion seems to be that the US have no legal standing for a world wide ban on a foreign entity conducting business. The comments are a bit silly, but i loved the notion that the US could ban international sales of AK-47 firearms and derivatives, and the old eastern block companies, and asia would comply? A Chinese court or their government could ban exports or manufacture, but not a foreign country. The US banned import of Kinder eggs, really popular in europe because they are dangerous, along with blackcurrants until fairly recently but could they prevent world wide kinder egg sales? Surely not? A worldwide ban requires working with every country individually. Its not even the US Government, but a manufacturer, so how do they have this power?

 

[YL3IM]

I'm still not getting why does Hytera comply?

 

[YL3IM]

 

[N4DES]

Interesting historical information....

Motorola case shows importance of detecting insider IP theft quickly

Departing Motorola employees took thousands of documents with them in 2008 when they were hired by a competitor, but it wasn't discovered until 2017.

www.csoonline.com

Evidence of insider wrongdoing​

For example, in February 2008, 11,400 documents within an internal Motorola database that contained DMR trade secrets were accessed by the employees. One employee emailed another co-conspirator, “Are we going to ‘reuse’ as much as possible or do we need to develop most of them from scratch to avoid patent infringement and if [we] want it to be fast and reuse as much as possible from the existing Motorola product, then we may need less headcount ….” The next day, an email between co-conspirators indicated, “I have been working very hard in backing up all the information. We are trying to grab whatever we can. We will surely need some of them when we are there. I think we have a total of 30G [gigabytes] now. Do you have anything in mind that you need while we are still here?”

Motorola employees downloaded more than 7,000 documents​

Between May and October 2008, the individuals were hired by Hytera. Less than 24 months later, in May 2010, Hytera began selling DMR products. The civil suits identify three individuals who departed Motorola for Hytera and their roles within Hytera as of 2017.

• Gee Siong Kok (a.k.a. G.S. Kok), was a senior engineering manager at Motorola, when he reappeared at Hytera he landed as senior vice president with a focus on the company’s transition from analog to digital communications solutions, to include DMR technology.
• T. Kok was a senior software engineer at Motorola. He went on to become sales director at Hytera.
• Samuel Chia was an engineering section manager at Motorola and became director of software engineering at Hytera.

The complaint goes on to note that internal investigation revealed the employees downloaded over 7,000 technical, marketing, sales and legal documents. The documents included “highly confidential information and implementations, marketing, legal protection, and other confidential details.” These documents included Motorola’s internal patent applications.

 

[knockoffham]

Well, this sucks. Knowing Motorola and how they like to be a monopoly I was thinking it would be completely unjust but from reading documents seems like Hytera did something I thought they were above and stole a bunch of intellectual property. Not cool, Hytera.
I was just trying to become a Hytera dealer and went to their website to find this message. I had given up on becoming a Motorola dealer for a while because I have been greeted by nothing but technical issues on their email servers and website. But I guess this means it is time to give Motorola Partner Empower tech support another ring tomorrow morning...

 

[radioopperator]

Motorola isn't really Motorola of the old days they sold like six years ago to CHINA.
I was told.

 

[DeoVindice]

Motorola isn't really Motorola of the old days they sold like six years ago to CHINA.
I was told.

That was Motorola Mobility, the cell phone company. No current relation to Motorola Solutions, the LMR company.

 

[dazey77]

How can the US courts enforce this in any country other than the USA?

They aren't. This effects only Hytera US, not Hytera the main company.

 

[emacs]

They aren't. This effects only Hytera US, not Hytera the main company.

All of Hytera’s websites (US, EU, China) display the message that they’re barred from selling radios, not just the US site.

 

[dazey77]

Wow, indeed you are right. I can't see how the US has any legal standing to do that. Hytera Europe site indeed has that message too.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

A lot of legal folk are talking about this, not that they remotely know what a radio is. Their opinion seems to be that the US have no legal standing for a world wide ban on a foreign entity conducting business. The comments are a bit silly, but i loved the notion that the US could ban international sales of AK-47 firearms and derivatives, and the old eastern block companies, and asia would comply? A Chinese court or their government could ban exports or manufacture, but not a foreign country. The US banned import of Kinder eggs, really popular in europe because they are dangerous, along with blackcurrants until fairly recently but could they prevent world wide kinder egg sales? Surely not? A worldwide ban requires working with every country individually. Its not even the US Government, but a manufacturer, so how do they have this power?

I am wondering this as well. Who is the US Legal system to tell another country what they can do outside of the US? Sure, you can't sell here and here is a list of other countries that made the same ruling, but the way this is written is like me telling my friend in another state he cant sell stuff at his garage sale to anyone who stops by.



EDIT: I am not condoning what Hytera did or saying there shouldnt be sanctions in the US or any other country that makes the same ruling as the US. I am not sure what I am more floored by, that the US did this or that Hytera/China actually went along with it.

 

[N1JGE]

How can the US courts enforce this in any country other than the USA?

There are probably international already in place.

 

[knockoffham]

I think I remember reading the way it was enforced nationally, the US courts said “we can’t stop you selling to other markets but for each day you continue to we will fine you $1M.” Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[chrismol1]

I think I remember reading the way it was enforced nationally, the US courts said “we can’t stop you selling to other markets but for each day you continue to we will fine you $1M.” Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

Probably something like that, whether they collect or not whatever but its not pre-WW2/cold war era, plenty of countries are interconnected in many areas, whether or not they can enforce these type of things, but they can pull strings/make stipulations in other areas...

 

[Muxlow]

The ban alert is on our hytera.ca site also
Our radio shop hasnt gotten ant official notice to stop selling anything at the moment yet either. So as far as we know this is just a US thing?
No official notice for our canadian dealers to halt selling anything

 

[prcguy]

In the mid 90s working at Hughes Aircraft I was involved in a project for a military SDR transceiver that seemed to be run by mostly computer people and not really any RF people. I brought in some common public accessible Motorola radio manuals to make a point about needing some RF preselection in the project receiver and when my manager saw the manuals he told me to remove them from the premises and never to bring in anything like that in the future. He mentioned we can’t afford to give even the illusion we got any ideas from any potential competition. In hindsight he was absolutely correct.

 

[jtwalker]

Looks like they're in the "find out" stage.

The difference between a judge and God ... God doesn't think he(she) is a judge.

 

[paulears]

They can't even fine a foreign business - the entire notion is just silly. For years we have had the counterfeit market in China making all sorts - handbags, footwear, guitars, perfume - and the best any country can do is ban the imports. They cannot fine a foreign firm that's just impossible. They could go to China and file a complaint in their courts, using their laws. it rarely seems to have ever happened.

 

[mmckenna]

This provides some more detail, maybe.

Hytera global sales of two-way-radio products still blocked, judge awaits clarity from China court

Hytera global sales of two-way-radio products still blocked, judge awaits clarity from China court

urgentcomm.com

OR

Injunction blocking Hytera two-way-radio sales globally upheld on Monday, but matter being reviewed - Urgent Comms

A U.S. federal district-court judge on Monday decided to maintain an injunction against Hytera Communications that halts global sales of the company’s two-way-radio technology. However, the contempt sanctions could be lifted soon, if a Chinese court provides a written ruling that Hytera has...

urgentcomm.com

 

[paulears]

I don't understand how this works, but the Hytera web site says it all!
EDIT
I just read the full text of the document on the Hytera site and there is a list of people and entities who cannot sell Hytera - and one term used includes resellers - so ANYONE in the entire world is prohibited from selling any Hytera radio? Surely this cannot be correct or legal