Info on the delays/issues with the Metrocrest Quad Cities Public Safety Radio System

[n5ims]

The Unity radios were issued to PD and FD to allow them to directly communicate with nearby agencies that they work with regularly on many fronts. UHF for Dallas (for various incidents), and VHF for Texas Highway Patrol (generally for incidents on or near the various toll roads that intersect the 4 cities). This communication isn't just during major incidents (where only supervisors could handle the interop traffic), but during even small incidents like car wrecks and small fires or EMS calls where the various cities are dispatched routinely to assist or even handle the incident for those sister agencies.

 

[mostinterestingman]

Are there ANY Harris TDMA simulcast out there that have been a success? Seems like they all are full of fail. Every system has its growing pains and hiccups, but it seems like one after another Harris systems wind up in the courts.

 

[JFDoering]

Harris P25 TDMA and Open Sky

Two Chicago suburbs are successfully using Harris OpenSky, which is is basically four-slot TDMA. There are areas where OpenSky two-slot TDMA (a cousin to P25 Phase II) provides better in-building coverage. The more significant difference between that system and this Texas system is simulcast. Digital simulcast systems are far more difficult to debug. They are also a bane of scanner users, since most scanners cannot handle the reception of simulcast signals even slightly different in time of arrival.

Peoria County, Illinois put in a Harris P25 simulcast system with eleven sites. It works great for the users. Scanner reception varies from phenomenal to unmonitorable, depending on your location relative to the sites.

Patches, or interoperability links, coming from analog systems into digital systems tend to be terrible. Digital to analog works great. Digital to another digital system usually works well also.

 

[W8VFD]

Every time I see a story like this it makes me appreciate my conventional analog VHF fire repeater.

 

[Para078]

Guess Momma /\/\ ain't so bad after all?

 

[TexScan780D]

Are there ANY Harris TDMA simulcast out there that have been a success? Seems like they all are full of fail. Every system has its growing pains and hiccups, but it seems like one after another Harris systems wind up in the courts.

Yes. P25 Phase II Simulcast. Radio problems, having to ship them back. Majority of the time can not make sense what is being said on the radio.

 

[Motoballa]

My thoughts..

I think better research could have gone into this project. My city tested out our new radio system before we spent millions on it. We did the research, asked other cities and departments what they think about theirs. I wouldn't blame Harris(completely), it all goes into the research, I saw a News 8 report where they said it went down for about 30 minutes and Officers were left without communication. They should always have a backup plan. We currently use a Motorola System and have good structured failsoft systems in place so if the system does fail our emergency services can still communicate safely. I can't really blame Harris completely.

 

[n5ims]

I think better research could have gone into this project. My city tested out our new radio system before we spent millions on it. We did the research, asked other cities and departments what they think about theirs. I wouldn't blame Harris(completely), it all goes into the research, I saw a News 8 report where they said it went down for about 30 minutes and Officers were left without communication. They should always have a backup plan. We currently use a Motorola System and have good structured failsoft systems in place so if the system does fail our emergency services can still communicate safely. I can't really blame Harris completely.

Well, they weren't TOTALLY out of communications. Their MDTs still worked as well as their cell phones. They were also able to revert to their fallback and interop channels once the outage was confirmed and they were requested to move to those channels. Most dispatching was done using MDTs and this worked pretty well (a bit slower but worked as designed). The most serious issue was that once an officer was out of their car, their communication options were very limited. Had someone needed help quickly, it would take several minutes for them to notify dispatch and even longer for that help to arrive. It would also severely hamper officer-to-officer communication on what the issue was, suspect description, etc.

While I agree that additional research should've been done, there's more to the decision to go with Harris than that. For one thing, Harris opened an office in Carrollton not too long ago. Perhaps an agreement to purchase the replacement system from them was a factor in them opening this office in the city.

 

[motorola_otaku]

Are there ANY Harris TDMA simulcast out there that have been a success? Seems like they all are full of fail. Every system has its growing pains and hiccups, but it seems like one after another Harris systems wind up in the courts.

To their credit the Montgomery County system has worked as designed from go-live, from what I've heard from system users.

 

[KevinC]

To their credit the Montgomery County system has worked as designed from go-live, from what I've heard from system users.

Are they P2 or FDMA?

 

[n5ims]

Are they P2 or FDMA?

P2 TDMA.

 

[otter9309]

P2 TDMA.

The database is showing it's Phase 1

 

[mostinterestingman]

P2 TDMA.

Their emission designators show Phase 1 & Phase 1 LSM for Harris Master V's

 

[n5ims]

The database is showing it's Phase 1

Where is that? On the listing I see (Metrocrest Quad Cities Public Safety Radio System Trunking System, Carrollton, Texas - Scanner Frequencies) it clearly shows a System Type: of "Project 25 Phase II".

I also see that their license doesn't accurately reflect their current operation either. The emission codes do not appear to be correct for the P-25 Harris system. Also, although they're clearly still using the frequency of 860.26250, it was deleted from their license back on 11/03/2015 from modification # 0007011615.

ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007011615 - CITY OF CARROLLTON, TEXAS - Administration

11/03/2015 Location 1, Antenna 1, Frequency 00860.26250:Assigned or lower frequency deleted 860.26250000
11/03/2015 Location 1, Antenna 1, Frequency 00860.26250, EMISSION 17:Emission Designator deleted 16K0F3E
11/03/2015 Location 1, Antenna 1, Frequency 00860.26250, EMISSION 18:Emission Designator deleted 16K0F9W
11/03/2015 Location 1, Antenna 1, Frequency 00860.76250:Assigned or lower frequency deleted 860.76250000
11/03/2015 Location 1, Antenna 1, Frequency 00860.76250, EMISSION 19:Emission Designator deleted 20K0F1D
11/03/2015 Location 2, Antenna 1, Frequency 00815.26250:Assigned or lower frequency deleted 815.26250000
11/03/2015 Location 2, Antenna 1, Frequency 00815.26250, EMISSION 55:Emission Designator deleted 16K0F3E
11/03/2015 Location 2, Antenna 1, Frequency 00815.26250, EMISSION 56:Emission Designator deleted 16K0F9W
11/03/2015 Location 3, Antenna 1, Frequency 00815.26250:Assigned or lower frequency deleted 815.26250000

Delete 000860.26250000 1 1 9 FB2 1 75.000 200.000
Delete 000860.76250000 1 1 10 FB 1 100.000 200.000
Delete 000815.26250000 3 1 9 MO 1050 15.000 8.000
Delete 000815.76250000 3 1 10 MO 1050 15.000 8.000

Their current license --> ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked License - KNJU868 - CITY OF CARROLLTON, TEXAS

I suspect that the licensing issue is that Xerox (the Motorola contractor) controls the license while Harris is doing the work on the new system. Hopefully these licensing issues won't be another costly issue for the cities.

 

[mostinterestingman]

We were talking about the Montgomery County system KevinC referred to.

 

[KevinC]

We were talking about the Montgomery County system KevinC referred to.

Correct, I was asking about Montgomery County so we could compare apples to apples.

 

[otter9309]

Correct, I was asking about Montgomery County so we could compare apples to apples.

Correct, the discussion was asking if there is a successful type 2 from Harris, and it was mentioned that Montgomery county was working well, but it is not TDMA, it is operating in FDMA.

 

[Kitn1mcc]

is it harris corporate or the local dealer having all the issues

 

[KevinC]

Correct, the discussion was asking if there is a successful type 2 from Harris, and it was mentioned that Montgomery county was working well, but it is not TDMA, it is operating in FDMA.

Thanks.

 

[mostinterestingman]

is it harris corporate or the local dealer having all the issues

Well when you consider NY State, Vegas, Oakland, Metro Crest, and others i'm sure this just comes down to the product & parent company itself (Harris, Tyco, Macom, CommNet, Ericsson, GE) . How many Motorola systems are being bought back (honest question)? The Houston issues were mostly the fault of the city system administrators that restricted talkgroups geographically, using mismatched encryption keys, and providing no training to end users that have never operated on a trunked system before.

Honestly I do not think Harris realized what a turd the product line was when they bought it, because the green radio company makes a pretty damn good product.