Jefferson City, MO - State moving ahead with new emergency radio system

[shelleys1]

I don't think they are financing a top to bottom system. I think that they will put the infrastructure in place that will allow (if the agencies so desire) to connect to the system when the system goes online _or_ at a later date. They will of course fund the MSP and other applicable state agencies that will be the initial users of the system. I think that there will be some migration of local agencies to the system _if_ the agency has to get new equipment due to the 2013 narrowbanding requirement and this would necessitate the local agencies applying for grants on their own. They will of course supply a compatable radio to each EOC/911/Dispatch center (Illinois does the same thing with StarCom to agencies that are not on the system). If you assume that the above is the "plan", then I would think that they could do this for $400 million fairly easily - the Arkansas statewide system, IIRC, was around $300 million. Unless I am mistaken, StarCom is not "owned" by the state of Illinois, and the users pay a "subscription fee" for usage.

Actually, it is making more sense to me now after I looked at the presentation - the state will put the infrastructure for the MSP and other applicable state agencies at a cost of $400 million and then allow any local agency that desires to (on its own dime) to connect with it. And remember, this will not be a one-shot deal either. I can forsee some future state/local cooperation in setting up additional sites with the inevitable grant money to expand the system overall. I agree that there is no way that they could do a top to bottom system for police/fire/ems/em users all at once with the money available - but again, I don't think they are going in that direction.

Dennis

Yes, that I can see. A monster of a system wasn't going to be a reality at that price but the framework for a solid, statewide system, which would allow for other state entities to participate within, is certainly something which could be achieved with $400 million if it's done carefully. (Not always the case but hopefully would be in this instance!)

I'm not not sure it could feasibly be in place for the FCC 2013 deadline, but then I also don't think the FCC is going to hold to that date. Many rumours are already coming down about another push back on that dealine. With the economy the way it has been and is now there are too many of the smaller (and rural) cities, counties, etc. which cannot afford to update equipment and don't foresee being able to even by 2013. Many of the emergency managers and state, county officials, etc. have been hearing the rumours that of the date being pushed back for several months. But we'll just have to wait and see.

But I do see how this could be an excellent system (for the money) statewide, based on what you've laid out. As to Starcom - I'm familiar with how their system works but not how it's made available to their agencies, etc. In fact, I was just discussing with someone last week how three of the counties in Illinois might possibly be involved in a system proposed for the St. Louis metropolitan area. These counties are actually considered part of our metro area because so many people work in St. Louis City and County and the Illinois counties basically adjoin the Mississippi River. If there were any kind of catastrophic event or major emergency, they would definitely be affected as well, so they would be included in a proposed radio system. I was asking if this would be complicated for them - being part of both a Missouri and Illinois radio system. (Sounds complicated to me! LOL) Also, could they afford to participate in both systems? But I'm digressing...

If Missouri could successfully put the kind of system in place that we're discussing, for $400 million, then we'd be set for at least 15+ years after completion! That is if they used a radio system (e.g. Motorola) which has equipment which lasts that long.

 

[kpoe_28]

Any new info on Missouri's BIG plans to upgrade?

 

[shelleys1]

Any new info on Missouri's BIG plans to upgrade?

When/if they do say anything anytime soon, they may not divulge much more than "broad" (rather than defined) details about it. It's going to take many months of planning and discussion (maybe into a year or more) before they can start putting together the physical aspects (towers, hardware, etc.) of the system. Initially they'll "build" it on paper probably several times and even after that's done, once they actually start to physically lay the foundation throughout the state, there are always things which arise, both small and sometimes quite large, which require modifications (i.e. "oops" changes) which must be made - frequently very quickly.

So for now probably not much info, other than perhaps the fact that they're working on it, will likely be released. Once details are finalized, they may release the "basics" of the system, possibly with an overview and some equally "basic" sketches/drawings.

Shell

 

[iamhere300]

$87 million could not build the towers throughout the state for a new emergency radio system! (And the towers which exist are already pretty much in full use.) I don't have a clue as to what they can do with this. Most likely some consultants have given them a proposal which will end up falling far short when it comes to funding. It's what has consistently happened in the past and is obviously the case here.

So much misinformation - so little time.

Very few, and I mean VERY few new towers will be built. One of the big cost savings. Existing state towers will be used in a small number of locations, but there are some powerful partnerships going on for other sites.

 

[iamhere300]

Nothing at all. I really don't understand the basic concept of the system itself. If this is coined as a new Missouri emergency radio system then why is the focus on replacing all of the MSHP equipment? Yes, our HP badly needs a totally new radio system but that is *not* a state emergency radio system! That would be a Missouri State Highway Patrol Radio system.

We agree you don't understand the concept.

This system will be a state wide system open to all agencies, no user fees, etc.

One other thing which is going on and could be the reason why nothing has moved forward (regardless of what purpose the radio system is actually going to serve) is because the (outrageous) Tyco Electronics, one of the bidders on this system, has protested Motorola being chosen as the winning bidder! Now Tyco, a company with, IMHO, a lousy track record on design and implementation of government radio systems, has said that Motorola's bid was higher but Blunt still passed them over before leaving office and awarded the contract to Motorola.

Yeah, its not the reason. Things are moving forward pretty rapidly. The bid was fair, Tyco, like Mother, always complains about losing a bid. Fact of life.

A 2007 analysis by L. Robert Kimball and Associates, an Ebensburg, Pa.-based architectural and engineering firm, estimated it would cost Missouri between $165 million and $226 million to install up to 150 transmission towers around the state, buy 2,000 patrol radios and 54 dispatch consoles, and make sure the network is connected.

Knowing what I do about statewide radio systems, this is exactly the point I've been trying to make. And this estimate was from TWO YEARS AGO! This was an honest, straightforward estimate - quite rare these days.

Would it surprise you to consider that while the analysis was valid, there were many things the state could do to reduce costs, such as in the towers?

Do you realize that this is being built as a MOBILE based system - portable coverage is not the goal to meet at this time?

(Yes, Motorola systems use Motorla radios but you can buy Moto radios from hundreds, if not thousands, of different sources! And once your radio system is installed, your own people can be taught to made adjustments or an outside vendor can also. You are not required to have Motorola do the work!)

At this point, Mother will be doing quite a bit of the work through MSS's and factory tech reps. You can buy Mother radios from lots of places, but you will have to get your programming from the system engineers. Did you know that the state bid pricing on much of the Motorola gear is cheaper than dealer cost?

Being the "low bidder" isn't always (and more often than not shouldn't be) the single determining factor in the bidding process! There are several very important considerations which have to be part of the bid as well. This, I believe, is also (and I certainly hope IS) what is slowing down the process here! Missouri doesn't have the monies needed to build the emergency radio system it truly needs. But hopefully Motorola can give them something much better than what they're working with right now.

.

You are right - low bidder does not always mean best bidder.

And to the two to three emails I am about to get - Yeah, I know, I should just walk on...

 

[iamhere300]

When/if they do say anything anytime soon, they may not divulge much more than "broad" (rather than defined) details about it. It's going to take many months of planning and discussion (maybe into a year or more) before they can start putting together the physical aspects (towers, hardware, etc.) of the system. Initially they'll "build" it on paper probably several times and even after that's done, once they actually start to physically lay the foundation throughout the state, there are always things which arise, both small and sometimes quite large, which require modifications (i.e. "oops" changes) which must be made - frequently very quickly.

So for now probably not much info, other than perhaps the fact that they're working on it, will likely be released. Once details are finalized, they may release the "basics" of the system, possibly with an overview and some equally "basic" sketches/drawings.

Shell

Look for a LOT more information in January/Febuary.

 

[iamhere300]

I
Actually, it is making more sense to me now after I looked at the presentation - the state will put the infrastructure for the MSP and other applicable state agencies at a cost of $400 million and then allow any local agency that desires to (on its own dime) to connect with it. And remember, this will not be a one-shot deal either. I can forsee some future state/local cooperation in setting up additional sites with the inevitable grant money to expand the system overall. I agree that there is no way that they could do a top to bottom system for police/fire/ems/em users all at once with the money available - but again, I don't think they are going in that direction.

Dennis

What is that smell... It smells like a Cigar.... Give that man a cigar!

The VHF system is not set up to be a dispatch daily solution for an local government.

It is supposed to be a good interoperability solution, and should be able to be augmented to become that daily dispatch solution however. I know of a number of local goverments that are planning for exactly that - going for grants to augment it if the state will take over maintenance and engineering. (Something I believe will be required.

Enjoy that stogie!

 

[iamhere300]

I'm not not sure it could feasibly be in place for the FCC 2013 deadline, but then I also don't think the FCC is going to hold to that date. Many rumours are already coming down about another push back on that dealine. With the economy the way it has been and is now there are too many of the smaller (and rural) cities, counties, etc. which cannot afford to update equipment and don't foresee being able to even by 2013. Many of the emergency managers and state, county officials, etc. have been hearing the rumours that of the date being pushed back for several months. But we'll just have to wait and see.

.

???????????????????

A couple of points.

1. The 2013 deadline has no impact on the low band system. Low band, ie, 30-50, is not required to
narrowband.

2. Since 1997 any radios sold have narrowband capability included. Thats right, for the past 12 almost 13 years, those radios have narrowband capability. Remember to point that out to your local salespuke trying to tell an agency they need a complete upgrade.

3. Agencies have had plenty of chances to upgrade via grants. RHSOC money has been heavily earmarked for upgrading radios to narrowband, then P25/narrowband for all local government involved in an emergency response - roads, buses, fire, EMS, Law, etc. AFG money is plentiful for interoperability and meeting narrowbanding. COPS money is plentiful for the same.

4. Agencies that fail to plan - shame on them. Your failure to plan does not make it an emergency on my part.

5. Those grants are still available.

Rumors abound. The FCC has stated steadfastly that they will NOT push it back again. This has been in the works for well over 15 years. Time to go. I will put my house on it right now. Want to put your deed up?


BTW, very nice weather page. I love the Davis gear with the interface to the web. Is that embeded in the davis, or is a separate server needed?

 

[shelleys1]

Missouri's New Radio System and more...

Glad you like the weather page. The page itself is independent from the Davis software, but data from my Davis station is fed through a server I have here. The server also includes a Boltec lightning detection system which feeds data to the StrikeStarUS System. The data is sent out every 2 seconds to both sites. Davis is great! The process for feeding the data is nearly seamless. (Only problem right now is with AT&T which, at times, drops the DSL service from the server for a few minutes because we're at the "end of the line" - frustrating!)

As to Tyco, thankfully they're out of the Wireless Radio business! They sold out to Harris back in April. Details, along with Open Sky systems, ongoing, stalled, not so good, etc. can be found here: OpenSky

I don't believe that low band is an option for either the MSHP or the emergency radio system (seems to be one and the same at this point) and yes, of course, I know the low band frequencies LOL. MSHP has been trying to find a way to get off of low band for quite a while. They've been able to live with it by using repeaters, etc. but, as I'm sure you know, low band just doesn't work well in states like ours.

Yes, I know Motorola has been building 2013-compliant radios since the late 1990s. Other manufacturers as well, but reliability has been an ongoing problem with some, as I've been told and have seen.

As far as any agency not being prepared for 2013...you may go ahead and say "Shame on them." But I'm not so sure. I'm not talking about a county like St. Louis County or Jackson County or even a small muni like the City of St. Peters, in St. Charles County. I'm talking rural - way rural! And there are many of them in Missouri! I've met and know a number of the emergency managers in adjoining counties and cities who help these people out. For many years I've heard about them and even seen how some of them do the best they can to protect their small communities with what little they have to do so. Grants? Quite honestly I'm not sure if many of these communities meet the criteria to qualify for a grant.

Several months ago I was at a meeting in Jeff City. It was a planning meeting for a (then) upcoming exercise. The discussion was about the disbursment of assets (people, food, medical, etc.) into and throughout particular areas of Missouri. It quickly became very clear just how helpless and vulnerable large areas of Missouri are and would be, even when faced with far less than a catastrophic event. Actually, we saw what happened a year ago in the ice storms which hit southest and southern Missouri. But my point is that these communities truly haven't had and still don't have the money to buy new equipment. They didn't 12 years ago and they don't today! (P.S. I know several of these small towns have applied for RHSOC grants, etc. and could not get them. I don't know the details as to why not.)

As to the FCC 2013 deadline...they've already pushed it back once (to 2013) and whether you've heard the rumors or not - we have here for the last year. In fact, the last one we heard (a month or so ago) was that they were going to drop it altogether. Not sure if I believe that one or not, but there has absolutely been the rumor that they're pushing it back at least two more years and the rumors were out of Washington. Would I put my house on it? Good lord no! And you shouldn't either! Hahaa These days I believe anything could happen...or couldn't. But a rumor which has persisted like this one has, through people I've known and worked with for a long time, makes me look at it as more viable (note viable, not as truth).

As to this radio system itself...I never once insinuated it would be subscription-based! I never compared it to Illinois' system. I DID say that I'd be surprised if three counties in Illinois, considered to be part of the Metropolitan St. Louis area, joined in on the new, upcoming radio system going in here. And, at that time, discussed the Illinois radio system within which they participate...wondering why they would pay for the Illinois system and then would ask their taxpayers to agree to add a tax to pay for a Missouri radio system. But I never said ours would be anything like the Illinois system.

Yes, of course I know that going direct with Moto you can get equipment at a lower price than through a dealer. What I was saying was that with Moto equipment you could always get the gear SERVICED and PROGRAMMED through a dealer later on. But with the Open Sky equipment and programming you could NOT! The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with who bid it - it had EVERYTHING to do with being outrageously proprietary from beginning to end - being unable to go to a local dealer to have equipment repaired or programmed. One had to have Tyco repair or program equipment. That's NOT acceptable!

A LOT more information in January and February? Hmm, interesting! Who have they been working with? Maybe I need to make a couple of calls/send out a couple of emails. *grin*

Ok, now you've really piqued my interest - a MOBILE-based system? This I really don't get because, from my initial understanding the radio system was to be a two-fold solution. To supply a new radio system for the MSHP and a new emergency radio system for the State of Missouri.

And the towers...there aren't enough of them (and a lot of them have a lot of "stuff" on them) to successfully make this a statewide system, unless it's MOBILE. And again, MOBILE?

Shell

 

[iamhere300]

As to Tyco, thankfully they're out of the Wireless Radio business! They sold out to Harris back in April. Details, along with Open Sky systems, ongoing, stalled, not so good, etc. can be found here: OpenSky

It was just a name change. Most of the same people, all of the same ideas.

As far as any agency not being prepared for 2013...you may go ahead and say "Shame on them." But I'm not so sure. I'm not talking about a county like St. Louis County or Jackson County or even a small muni like the City of St. Peters, in St. Charles County. I'm talking rural - way rural! And there are many of them in Missouri! I've met and know a number of the emergency managers in adjoining counties and cities who help these people out. For many years I've heard about them and even seen how some of them do the best they can to protect their small communities with what little they have to do so. Grants? Quite honestly I'm not sure if many of these communities meet the criteria to qualify for a grant.

Several months ago I was at a meeting in Jeff City. It was a planning meeting for a (then) upcoming exercise. The discussion was about the disbursment of assets (people, food, medical, etc.) into and throughout particular areas of Missouri. It quickly became very clear just how helpless and vulnerable large areas of Missouri are and would be, even when faced with far less than a catastrophic event. Actually, we saw what happened a year ago in the ice storms which hit southest and southern Missouri. But my point is that these communities truly haven't had and still don't have the money to buy new equipment. They didn't 12 years ago and they don't today! (P.S. I know several of these small towns have applied for RHSOC grants, etc. and could not get them. I don't know the details as to why not.)

If they cannot find grants, then put them in touch with me. There is so much available. And if they
have not gotten RHSOC money, it is due to them not asking. Heck, even Walmart gives out thousands for emergency responders. Lots of sources for grants.

The Ice Storms in 2009? Intimately familiar with them, as well as the response. The only communciations issue we had was lack of communications with the national guard units in our area. This system addresses that issue.

I know poor. As a Volunteer Fire Chief, and President of our county wide Fire Chiefs association, as well as many regional and state volunteer obligations, I know first hand what poor is. My Fire Department covers 200 square miles, two stations, 2 engines, 2 tankers, 2 brush trucks, foam trailer, air trailer, commo trailer - all on a yearly budget of 6,500.00 a year.

Almost EVERY radio we have is narrowband compliant. Almost every radio in our county is narrowband compliant. Thats for a county of under 40k, the largest county in our region.

As to the FCC 2013 deadline...they've already pushed it back once (to 2013) and whether you've heard the rumors or not - we have here for the last year. In fact, the last one we heard (a month or so ago) was that they were going to drop it altogether. Not sure if I believe that one or not, but there has absolutely been the rumor that they're pushing it back at least two more years and the rumors were out of Washington. Would I put my house on it? Good lord no! And you shouldn't either! Hahaa These days I believe anything could happen...or couldn't. But a rumor which has persisted like this one has, through people I've known and worked with for a long time, makes me look at it as more viable (note viable, not as truth).

I don't mind putting my house on it - I know without a doubt it will happen.

Yes, of course I know that going direct with Moto you can get equipment at a lower price than through a dealer. What I was saying was that with Moto equipment you could always get the gear SERVICED and PROGRAMMED through a dealer later on. But with the Open Sky equipment and programming you could NOT! The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with who bid it - it had EVERYTHING to do with being outrageously proprietary from beginning to end - being unable to go to a local dealer to have equipment repaired or programmed. One had to have Tyco repair or program equipment. That's NOT acceptable!

Tyco MA/COM, etc does much the same as Mother on the PA system. You have to get the code plugs from the system admins, just like Missouri will require. The code plug is the programming for the system. Just like the PA system, there will be control - and not just anybody will be able to program onto the system, just like the PA system.

Any Tyco dealer could provide service to the end users - but just like with the M system in MO, the programming for the state system is not.

A LOT more information in January and February? Hmm, interesting! Who have they been working with? Maybe I need to make a couple of calls/send out a couple of emails. *grin*

Uh, Motorola, the various state agencies, and the state interoperability manager.

Ok, now you've really piqued my interest - a MOBILE-based system? This I really don't get because, from my initial understanding the radio system was to be a two-fold solution. To supply a new radio system for the MSHP and a new emergency radio system for the State of Missouri.

Absolutely - Mobile based. The system is NOT designed to be a portable coverage system.

And the towers...there aren't enough of them (and a lot of them have a lot of "stuff" on them) to successfully make this a statewide system, unless it's MOBILE. And again, MOBILE?

Shell

Think out of the box a little on the towers. Get way away from just highway patrol or MODOT towers. Think a heavy partnership with utilities. Think about leasing space. The state also owns a number of former AT&T, MCI, and IXC towers that they are not using or just lightly using at this point.

 

[shelleys1]

Name change? Somewhat more than that...to the tune of $675 million from Harris. No doubt some people went with it but the company won't be the same. Under Tyco there were continued problems...lengthy delays and serious problems with deadlines which weren't met. I don't know if clients were part of what was going on but, as you know, when you find more than a few instances it usually isn't the client.

The difference between Motorola (or some other vendors) and the way Tyco was handling their contracts (using Pennsylvania as a recent example) was that they were not allowing a vendor which had previous contracts with the client and a relationship with a provider (Tyco or Motorola) to service the client. Tyco bid into the contract with a set (high) amount for the service and programming with no ability for the client to negotiate the price. With most of the Motorola contracts, especially with states and counties, the contracts can be written allowing the client to use a local authorized Motorola vendor for service and programming (Using Motorola as an example but, again, as you know it could be GE, etc.). These vendors bid for the yearly contracts and thus the client often gets a better price. On Tyco's contract that was simply not possible and the yearly maintenance and support cost was subsequently quite a bit higher. Also, when problems arose they had to wait for a Tyco technician to arrive to fix it - which was sometimes not a "rapid response". (Obviously you know how the process works but others reading this thread may not.)

The new system does sound interesting. I'll be curious to find out the frequencies, how the cities and counties will interface and what the timeline will be. I admit, I hadn't even thought about stepping out beyond owned/leased and MO-DOT's towers. (Duh on my part!) And of course there's likely room on the cell towers and it's about time we asked them to share instead of the other way around! *grin* That also would mean the system would be in place much faster! (Compared to other scenarios.) I'm familiar with most, if not all, of the people you've been talking to... I might make some phone calls today if I can get the work that's sitting in front of me done. This really sounds great! (And it's nice to be in a state which DOES think out-of-the-box, unlike some others! Whew!) By the way - do you know if consultants were used on this or did it come out of our people? (Curious because Jeff City seems to have been using a number of consultants as of late. Regardless, whomever came up with this is doing a good job!)

Shell

 

[iamhere300]

Name change? Somewhat more than that...to the tune of $675 million from Harris. No doubt some people went with it but the company won't be the same. Under Tyco there were continued problems...lengthy delays and serious problems with deadlines which weren't met. I don't know if clients were part of what was going on but, as you know, when you find more than a few instances it usually isn't the client.

Insofar as what the customers will see - its a name change. Don't expect miracles because of new corporate governance, it is not going to happen. Nothing has changed. Sort of like Vertex being bought by Mother. Nothing has changed.

The difference between Motorola (or some other vendors) and the way Tyco was handling their contracts (using Pennsylvania as a recent example) was that they were not allowing a vendor which had previous contracts with the client and a relationship with a provider (Tyco or Motorola) to service the client. Tyco bid into the contract with a set (high) amount for the service and programming with no ability for the client to negotiate the price. With most of the Motorola contracts, especially with states and counties, the contracts can be written allowing the client to use a local authorized Motorola vendor for service and programming (Using Motorola as an example but, again, as you know it could be GE, etc.). These vendors bid for the yearly contracts and thus the client often gets a better price. On Tyco's contract that was simply not possible and the yearly maintenance and support cost was subsequently quite a bit higher. Also, when problems arose they had to wait for a Tyco technician to arrive to fix it - which was sometimes not a "rapid response". (Obviously you know how the process works but others reading this thread may not.)

Subscriber work - repair, programming etc, can be handled by any Tyco ASC, or Authorized Service Center, which is like the Motorola MSS system. While not every Motorola dealer is an MSS, the same is true with Tyco. If you need reprogramming for the equipment, the code plugs are STILL done by Tyco - in the same manner that Motorola will do programming on the new Missouri system. No real difference for programming.

Because Missouri's system is open - you are correct - the equipment can come from a wide variety of sources and manufacturers, but the programming is still going to come from a central source.

In most of the Motorola statewide systems previous to the P25 open systems, Motorola has allowed ONLY radios purchased through their direct sales force (Not the dealers sales force, which is what most people are familiar with) to be used, and programming, repair, etc only through their MSS network, much like ASC's withTyco. Arkansas is a good example of that.

The new system does sound interesting. I'll be curious to find out the frequencies, how the cities and counties will interface and what the timeline will be. I admit, I hadn't even thought about stepping out beyond owned/leased and MO-DOT's towers. (Duh on my part!) And of course there's likely room on the cell towers and it's about time we asked them to share instead of the other way around! *grin* That also would mean the system would be in place much faster! (Compared to other scenarios.) I'm familiar with most, if not all, of the people you've been talking to... I might make some phone calls today if I can get the work that's sitting in front of me done. This really sounds great! (And it's nice to be in a state which DOES think out-of-the-box, unlike some others! Whew!) By the way - do you know if consultants were used on this or did it come out of our people? (Curious because Jeff City seems to have been using a number of consultants as of late. Regardless, whomever came up with this is doing a good job!)

Shell

Frequencies? You and everyone else are waiting on that one.

Interface? A control station (IE Mobile) sitting at a dispatch console all the way to
each user having a radio capable of using the system are all ways you will see the interfacing happen. Each case will be looked at for its own merits.

Consultants or state people? Yes.

Not sure what you mean about cell towers - are you thinking they should give space on their towers to support this?

 

[wb0wao]

IIRC, the "original, original" proposal had something about interfacing and using the AmerenUE EDACS network on 800MHz. Would not surprise me at all if they utilized some of those towers as well - that would go a long way on covering the eastern part of the state. I also think that you may see some co-location of equipment with hospitals, existing governmental entities, etc. - anything to reduce the initial cost as well as future interfacing with other agencies / users.

No matter what, we aren't gonna see any on-air system for a couple of years IMHO - I think that the survey report is due in June 2010 and then they will start the process sometime after that. I would expect that the FCC application(s) won't be submitted till sometime late in 2010 or early 2011.

Dennis

 

[RADIOUSER5]

Grants are nice for initial costs. Does anyone estimate the operating costs, repair and maintenance, for years two through five after the initial warranty expires? What is the life of the current Phase I technology before narrowbanding forces Phase II TDMA? And didn't the cell phone companies replace TDMA for 3G and now 4G technology?

 

[TooLate]

Well, despite all the discussion of "fiscality" of a new system, last weekends trip to Branson via Springfield was nearly silent except for local municipalities. No VHF-Lo (SHP) traffic that I can recall.

Notably, my base with the 60+ft tower has been eerily quiet down there (Lo Bnd) too. So, where has all the SHP traffic gone if there is no new system of frequencies in use? I know they're out there because I see them daily on my 130mi commute.

All my scanners are analogs with ranges that extend through the 900MHz spectrum. I'm not hearing anything from Trp D to Lee's Summit State like I used to...and haven't for months. Only occasional Springfield State accident yr-to-date totals are heard (and right now, didn't hear that today)...no car to car either and we live near intersection of 2 major US highways. What's up?

 

[N2JDS]

Troop C is still coming through loud and clear. All of the 42.XXX freqs still in use. Even car to car, Air etc.
Now I do also hear them on their 4XX.XXX channels as well as the 148.XXX extender.
However their system may be new, as they just moved to a new transmitter site in St. Charles County. (Weldon Spring State). I'm using a Pro-96, with a VHF 5/8 wave fender mounted antenna, Hardly an all band scanner antenna, but it does a GREAT job. At home I pick up with a discone on a Uniden 996XT, and pick up their cars even 20-30 miles away at times. Just another perspective, and seeing it still working well. Good luck. Hope to not offend, just check what you have programmed in, I did notice their primary channels have moved around a little. Where 42.XX used to be the main channel, is now heard on 42.XXX

 

[shelleys1]

Insofar as what the customers will see - its a name change. Don't expect miracles because of new corporate governance, it is not going to happen. Nothing has changed. Sort of like Vertex being bought by Mother. Nothing has changed.




Subscriber work - repair, programming etc, can be handled by any Tyco ASC, or Authorized Service Center, which is like the Motorola MSS system. While not every Motorola dealer is an MSS, the same is true with Tyco. If you need reprogramming for the equipment, the code plugs are STILL done by Tyco - in the same manner that Motorola will do programming on the new Missouri system. No real difference for programming.

Because Missouri's system is open - you are correct - the equipment can come from a wide variety of sources and manufacturers, but the programming is still going to come from a central source.

In most of the Motorola statewide systems previous to the P25 open systems, Motorola has allowed ONLY radios purchased through their direct sales force (Not the dealers sales force, which is what most people are familiar with) to be used, and programming, repair, etc only through their MSS network, much like ASC's withTyco. Arkansas is a good example of that.




Frequencies? You and everyone else are waiting on that one.

Interface? A control station (IE Mobile) sitting at a dispatch console all the way to
each user having a radio capable of using the system are all ways you will see the interfacing happen. Each case will be looked at for its own merits.

Consultants or state people? Yes.

Not sure what you mean about cell towers - are you thinking they should give space on their towers to support this?

Sorry - totally overwhelmed with year-end stuff here and then family things. Hadn't had time to even come up for air!

We don't really see the Tyco thing the same way, but it doesn't really matter. They're out of the running here, so it's moot.

On the Moto programming I didn't mean the initial system programming - I was talking about subsequent system programming changes, updates, etc. (With the Pennsylvania system and several others, Tyco wouldn't allow anyone else except their technicians, at a higher $$ rate, to make the updates and changes after the systems were installed. That was ludicrous!)

As to equipment purchases for statewide systems - quite honestly, I don't know how Moto works with Missouri. I do know though that MSHP has their own technicians updating software on their systems at their various locations. How they work with Moto to do that, I'm not sure. But they are using Moto radios and I would think Moto software.

Sorry - I had cell towers on the brain...although, considering they've "shared" a number of our towers here, they could probably "share" a number of theirs around the state! Hahaa I'm sure it was MoDOT towers I meant to say - brainfade on my part!

Hmmm, I can see/think of entirely too many different ways to interface. From an operations POV I would think they'd limit it to 3 or 4 (or maybe a couple more than that). With 3 or 4 flexible options it wouldn't be at all difficult to interface, regardless of what resources a city or county would have. (With many more options it wouldn't necessarily be difficult, but would certainly make it more complicated to coordinate.)

Well, I know the people at the state-level (SEMA, etc.) and, quite honestly, am hoping it's not some of the consultants I know.

Finally on the frequencies - there aren't many (if any) left besides what they already have. So I don't know that we'll even see any new ones.....

Shell

 

[shelleys1]

Troop C is still coming through loud and clear. All of the 42.XXX freqs still in use. Even car to car, Air etc.
Now I do also hear them on their 4XX.XXX channels as well as the 148.XXX extender.
However their system may be new, as they just moved to a new transmitter site in St. Charles County. (Weldon Spring State). I'm using a Pro-96, with a VHF 5/8 wave fender mounted antenna, Hardly an all band scanner antenna, but it does a GREAT job. At home I pick up with a discone on a Uniden 996XT, and pick up their cars even 20-30 miles away at times. Just another perspective, and seeing it still working well. Good luck. Hope to not offend, just check what you have programmed in, I did notice their primary channels have moved around a little. Where 42.XX used to be the main channel, is now heard on 42.XXX

Yes, they did move around some of the frequencies and, from what I understand, made some (really good) changes (upgrades?) to the extenders.

I agree - Troop C is definitely coming in much better! Before they were dropping off a lot when the cars were going through the bluffs and down through some of the deeper valleys. But I too have been picking them up significantly better since the first of the year and that's been with an Austin Ferret on the roof our home and a very good Larson on the car - both with 396XTs. (I'm in West St. Louis County.)

Shell

 

[wb0wao]

I have always had trouble hearing MSP here in Cape - we are kinda down in a "bowl" and even though I-55 runs about a mile from my location, it is quite rare that I hear them. I can sometimes go for days without hearing anything out of Troop E - usually the only thing that I ever hear is on Car-To-Base if they happen to make a traffic stop on I-55 around Cape.

Actually, as far a frequencies go - with the narrowbanding requirement, there should be a whole slew of "new" splinter freqs available, the trick will be deconflicting them with existing users that have not yet narrowbanded yet. I would NOT want to be the guy coordinating this!

Dennis

 

[shelleys1]

I have always had trouble hearing MSP here in Cape - we are kinda down in a "bowl" and even though I-55 runs about a mile from my location, it is quite rare that I hear them. I can sometimes go for days without hearing anything out of Troop E - usually the only thing that I ever hear is on Car-To-Base if they happen to make a traffic stop on I-55 around Cape.

Actually, as far a frequencies go - with the narrowbanding requirement, there should be a whole slew of "new" splinter freqs available, the trick will be deconflicting them with existing users that have not yet narrowbanded yet. I would NOT want to be the guy coordinating this!

Dennis

It could be that MSHP hasn't worked on the extenders down there yet - I don't really know. Or perhaps it's just the new equipment they've put in here...but the signal is definitely stronger than previously.

As to the frequencies - yes, with narrowbanding there already are and will be splinter frequencies. But the FCC has procedures in place as to what must be done if a splinter frequency is picked up and is being used narrowband. If it is and another agency is bleeding over, which has not gone narrowband, they must immediately narrowband their system to be compliant. Agencies know (or should know!) this, so it would be no surprise. For example here Hazelwood, which has not yet narrowbanded, has the adjacent frequency to V-Tac which is on a splinter frequency and is narrowband, but V-Tac is not being used yet. When it does become active if Hazelwood has not narrowbanded yet and bleeds over, which they likely would, they would have to immediately buy new equipment because the radios and bases they currently have cannot be upgraded to narrowband.

Editing to add: As I understand it, if a splinter frequency is picked up, it is for narrowband. I meant to put that in and forgot, but you probably knew it anyway. *smile*

Shell