Looking For A Decent RR Monitor (Mobile or HT) :: SDS200 Seems Deaf On RR

[kudzu_kid]

Good Day All,


Looking for a decent (USED is fine - preferred!) HT or Mobile unit. Extra points for recommending an Icom or Kenwood by model. Older (cheaper!) is fine!


I live about 600' from the nearest RR crossing and listening to HOT/EOT I usually hear nothing on the SDS200 until the train has already or is imminently approaching the crossing. Elsewhere I read where people say they're getting ~5 mile advance warnings by listening for the HOT/EOT data stream. I love the SDS200 - it seems fine on UHF, etc; but not so much on VHF (local repeaters are extremely weak as well as RR freqs).


To be clear: I am NOT using an external antenna. I am only using the stock telescoping one that came with it, or a Smiley 5/8 Slim Duck 160 MHZ. Frankly, the stock telescoping antenna seems better - but neither is great. At the moment, I can't put up an external antenna as I'd like. But I think I should still do better than I am currently.


I don't care if it's a mobile or HT unit or even an old cab rig or whatever. It just needs to me modifiable if you recommend a 2M rig (yes, I'm licensed).


Any hints, tips, makes & models, etc; are appreciated. Sources will be eBay or ______ (?). There aren't many hamfests around here (Tulsa metro area) that I'm aware of.


Train photo because railfans...



BNSF Cherokee Yard, Tulsa... My photo.

 

[krtz07]

Everytime when I waver, I always come back to the ICOM V86 as being the best in terms of reception on the railroad bands. It's loud, has enough channels to hold the ARR frequencies. The only thing is it only works on VHF.

 

[Nasby]

Icom makes a great unit. I have a V82 for portable use. The range / sensitivity is remarkable. I’d image the V86 is just as good.
For mobile use it’s hard to beat the Kenwood TM 281. The sensitivity is unreal. I use a Diamond RH77CA. They have stellar performance on the RR frequencies.

 

[mmckenna]

You likely will not see much of a difference unless you are using an external antenna. Using a back of set antenna down near ground level and inside a home close to all those noise sources, is going to result in poor performance with any radio.

No point in spending a bunch of money on a new/used radio but hobble it with a compromised antenna.

I'd put your money into adding an external antenna outside your home and up as high as you can safely get it.

 

[Brales60]

I can get my one (wish there was more) local short line when it comes up my way. If I leave my SDS200 locked on the yard and road I can get hits from their base about 30 miles south. They just started coming back my way, or it was the Sarasota division that may have come down here. Their bridges over the rivers got smoked in that last hurricane. Oh yeah, running a external antenna about 20' up.

 

[kudzu_kid]

Everytime when I waver, I always come back to the ICOM V86 as being the best in terms of reception on the railroad bands. It's loud, has enough channels to hold the ARR frequencies. The only thing is it only works on VHF.

Thanks for that... I've kinda been out of the amateur game for a bit. I had a IC-2410H (with a Diamond dual band antenna - I forget the exact model) that I thoroughly loved... but someone relieved me of it by tossing a brick through my window years ago. I didn't have money to replace it at the time. Kids, moves, cancer, open heart surgery and life in general happened and that (theft and other circumstances!) kinda knocked me off the air for decade or so. Recently renewed my ticket. So, I'm pretty unfamiliar with the new rigs (and some of the newer digital formats / protocols, etc. too!). Thanks for your input. Based on another comment here, it looks as if the Vxx series might be worth looking at! Thanks again, I DO appreciate it.

73 de N5KBD

 

[kudzu_kid]

Icom makes a great unit. I have a V82 for portable use. The range / sensitivity is remarkable. I’d image the V86 is just as good.
For mobile use it’s hard to beat the Kenwood TM 281. The sensitivity is unreal. I use a Diamond RH77CA. They have stellar performance on the RR frequencies.

Another vote for Icom Vxx series. Duly noted and many thanks. I think the Diamond I had on my ol' IC-2410H was a SG7900A... I think. I don't remember the model for sure, but I remember it was a Diamond dual band - and had 2 coils. The SG7900A resembles what I had... I dunno for sure. Been too long. Thank for the Kenwood thought too... Always had good success with them as well. Always liked their & Icom's layout and 'ergonomics' - generally always "clicked" with me.

Thanks again!

73 N5KBD

 

[kudzu_kid]

You likely will not see much of a difference unless you are using an external antenna. Using a back of set antenna down near ground level and inside a home close to all those noise sources, is going to result in poor performance with any radio.

No point in spending a bunch of money on a new/used radio but hobble it with a compromised antenna.

I'd put your money into adding an external antenna outside your home and up as high as you can safely get it.

In general I heartily agree, but I DO believe that the sensitivity of the SDS200 could be better on VHF. Why do I think that? Because eons ago, I had an Icom IC-32AT that had MUCH better sensitivity sitting on the very same nightstand with it's (Icom) default dualband duck, in the very same house, same room, etc. I could hear Tulsa and Wagoner dispatchers with NO problem. With the SDS200 (+20 years forward tech) - with either of the 2 antennas I mentioned previously - incl. the Smiley 5/8 Slim Duck 160 MHZ - it's quite the challenge. A lot of "bacon frying" (static, hiss bad s/n) - that on an old IC-32AT was quite acceptable. I don't live in a Faraday cage. All other things have remained fairly consistent - more or less. Sure, an elevated external antenna ABSOLUTELY would help.


To be clear, at this stage, I don't intend on buying "new" (receiver / scanner / mobile / talkie, etc.) and I don't suffer from G.A.S. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). If it works, I'll use it until I can't! I worked in IT for over 30 years and I've had more than enough of my share of "bleeding edge" tech fun to last 10 lifetimes, LOL


If / when I get the cash and the priority, I plan on getting the DPD TrainTenna Vertical Outdoor Base Antenna (or it's indoor "equivalent" - yeah, I know that argument). I haven't seen it mentioned in a negative light yet (but there probably are bad reviews for it somewhere!). Fortunately, where I live, the HOA is dead (but the city zoning ordinances are not - and the city is "thirsty" - so I need to behave somewhat!).


But I think right now, a portable-ish rig (HT or mobile is more pressing for my needs). I know I can take the SDS200 mobile, but... after having had a very nice Icom rig stolen from my car, I'm not eager to lose a $700 radio (SDS200) if I could lose a $100 unit instead (especially if it had equal or greater sensitivity on VHF rail freqs!). Maybe that'll make some sense. Full disclosure - I have NO idea (yet) what the referenced Icom Vxx units are going for on the used market. But when I referenced something "new" previously, I was anticipating someone might refer me to a Baofeng HT or something - so yeah - at $25-$50 - that's affordable. But I keep hearing mixed reviews on them. And yeah, my priorities are probably skewed and bass ackwards from most others. Sigh...

I genuinely DO appreciate your thoughts and what you say is generally spot on! Thanks for the reply. I'm weighing it in the mix...

Cheers!

 

[mmckenna]

OK, got it.
There are some good used options out there in your price range if you shop around. I had some older 2 meter amateur radios that were pretty good receivers, and easy enough to program on the fly if you need to change something.

Unfortunately, some of the older ham gear seems to go for a premium on e-Bay. I've been selling off some of my dad's old radios, and I'm always impressed when the bidders are willing to pay close to what the radio cost new.

If you feel like tackling commercial gear, often that's a bit cheaper, but then you have to contend with programming software (plus the learning curve), cables and no VFO.

A few years back I needed a good VHF mobile for my wife's truck. I found a used Kenwood TK-7180 mobile. When I received it, I read the file and it turned out to be an old BNSF radio that was loaded with the AAR channels plus a fair amount of law enforcement channels.

 

[wa8pyr]

Good Day All,


Looking for a decent (USED is fine - preferred!) HT or Mobile unit. Extra points for recommending an Icom or Kenwood by model. Older (cheaper!) is fine!
<snip>
Any hints, tips, makes & models, etc; are appreciated. Sources will be eBay or ______ (?). There aren't many hamfests around here (Tulsa metro area) that I'm aware of.

But I think right now, a portable-ish rig (HT or mobile is more pressing for my needs). I know I can take the SDS200 mobile, but... after having had a very nice Icom rig stolen from my car, I'm not eager to lose a $700 radio (SDS200) if I could lose a $100 unit instead (especially if it had equal or greater sensitivity on VHF rail freqs!). Maybe that'll make some sense. Full disclosure - I have NO idea (yet) what the referenced Icom Vxx units are going for on the used market. But when I referenced something "new" previously, I was anticipating someone might refer me to a Baofeng HT or something - so yeah - at $25-$50 - that's affordable. But I keep hearing mixed reviews on them. And yeah, my priorities are probably skewed and bass ackwards from most others. Sigh...

If you're on a budget, the Uniden BC125AT is hard to beat. Price usually runs just a bit over $100, but you can get them on Amazon from time to time for around $90 (that's where I got mine). It's an excellent little radio for general conventional scanning, and with your Smiley 5/8-wave Slim Duck will work better.

https://www.amazon.com/Uniden-BC125AT-Alpha-Tagged-channels-Lightweight/dp/B00772MR0K/ref=asc_df_B00772MR0K?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80470624768977&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584070153313345&th=1

If you're a ham radio operator, any decent VHF ham transceiver will work well; there are several models in the $200 or less price category.

Start moving into the commercial models and the price goes up accordingly. You're also dramatically increasing the complexity in terms of programming; these radios are much trickier to program, and all require proprietary programming cables and software, which may be tougher to find than the cables and software for ham transceivers or scanners.

Best bet is to start small. I use commercial radios all the time, but my BC125AT is really handy as a grab-and-go scanner that works anywhere with minimal programming effort.

 

[ecps92]

Good Day All,


Looking for a decent (USED is fine - preferred!) HT or Mobile unit. Extra points for recommending an Icom or Kenwood by model. Older (cheaper!) is fine!


I live about 600' from the nearest RR crossing and listening to HOT/EOT I usually hear nothing on the SDS200 until the train has already or is imminently approaching the crossing. Elsewhere I read where people say they're getting ~5 mile advance warnings by listening for the HOT/EOT data stream. I love the SDS200 - it seems fine on UHF, etc; but not so much on VHF (local repeaters are extremely weak as well as RR freqs).


To be clear: I am NOT using an external antenna. I am only using the stock telescoping one that came with it, or a Smiley 5/8 Slim Duck 160 MHZ. Frankly, the stock telescoping antenna seems better - but neither is great. At the moment, I can't put up an external antenna as I'd like. But I think I should still do better than I am currently.


I don't care if it's a mobile or HT unit or even an old cab rig or whatever. It just needs to me modifiable if you recommend a 2M rig (yes, I'm licensed).


Any hints, tips, makes & models, etc; are appreciated. Sources will be eBay or ______ (?). There aren't many hamfests around here (Tulsa metro area) that I'm aware of.


Train photo because railfans...


View attachment 140437
BNSF Cherokee Yard, Tulsa... My photo.

Are you sure it is your radio and not that the RR is only talking as they approach the crossing ?
How is your NWS Reception, to confirm it is the radio vs investing in something you may not actually need ?

 

[kudzu_kid]

Icom makes a great unit. I have a V82 for portable use. The range / sensitivity is remarkable. I’d image the V86 is just as good.
For mobile use it’s hard to beat the Kenwood TM 281. The sensitivity is unreal. I use a Diamond RH77CA. They have stellar performance on the RR frequencies.

Since some of the suggestions began coming in, I've done a little research, I have a question or two for you.

Is the Kenwood TM 281 the same thing as a TM 281A (if not, what's the difference) ? Is it true that the unit doesn't have a squelch control? Interesting.

I see the V82 & V86 appear to be in my price range, and I have a fondness for Icom anyhow (and then Kenwood). So, if my research is correct - I think the V82 requires modification for RR coverage, whereas the V86 would not (at least for receive) - is that in line with what you understand? Looks as if both of these (Icom) can be had reasonably priced from what I see.

Thanks & Good Weekend To All

 

[kudzu_kid]

Are you sure it is your radio and not that the RR is only talking as they approach the crossing ?
How is your NWS Reception, to confirm it is the radio vs investing in something you may not actually need ?

Hi!

Thanks for the response. To clarify things a little:

I'm not thinking about replacing the SDS200, just looking for a unit that will give better performance in the RR band that will work reasonably well at home as well as portable / mobile use. Maybe "supplementing" might be a good word.

How do I know the RR is talking? Good question, I'll try my best to answer. I DO hear some conversation - on occasion, but it is low signal / noisy. I don't know offhand what the typical loco cab radio power output is, but let's say it's 10W (I bet it's really at least 40W or more). In my original post I stated I live about 600' feet from the crossing. I just realized a typo! Correction: It's roughly 1600' (roughly a block and a half)! I'll edit that in the original post when I'm done with this note. I would still expect to be able to hear a transmission with a good degree of quieting. It's just not happening.

One example: When I had an Icom HT, on VHF (2M) I could hit a repeater about 15 miles away and hear it well. I could also hear RR comms in Tulsa (Cherokee Yard) acceptably well - some noise but not bad. The SDS200 can't hear Tulsa most of the time, when I do, I want to hit "Avoid" it's so noisy.

Also (admittedly years ago) I had a few other receivers (an Icom IC-32AT, a Kenwood {model forgotten} and a Uniden 800XLT) - same
house, exact same location (my bedside nightstand primarily) and every one of those could outperform the SDS200 for RR reception (each using stock antenna).

You suggested tuning in to the local friendly NWS freq. That's a really good suggestion, however, I've never had a problem with receiving NWS. I just about get them S9 on my toaster, LOL. Because I can look out my bedroom window and literally see the tower. I'm about 4-5 straight line miles from it (KIH27) and at 1KW at 1839' high. BTW, I live in OK - so terrain isn't a big topic in a lot of RF conversations around here, LOL. I wouldn't expect a problem. But for what it's worth - there still IS some discernable measure of static on the SDS200 using stock telescoping antenna. This also suggests to me that my RR reception isn't necessarily due to a weak antenna - but I understand why it's the first "go to" fix in most situations. Whereas my cheapo Midland weather radio (model # not handy, but like $30 at Walmart) has great receptions with no discernable static at all (with its stock telescoping antenna).

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the SDS200. It's a wickedly well designed unit - especially once you get familiar with it's capabilities and how to access them. It's quite good for local law enforcement, fire, etc. But seems lacking for RR. It could be better and I've had superior reception with other units.

As far as investing in something (I) don't need goes: A previous post of mine mentioned theft of an expensive Icom IC-2410H (hot stuff back in its day). So... if I'm going mobile (and I do from time to time), I might do well to ask if I would want a $100 VHF HT stolen or a $700 SDS200 stolen? Preferably neither, but if I had to make a choice. Since RR monitoring is my vice, I probably would be well served to have a unit with above average performance on VHF (RR) freqs. I'm thinking of the additional unit (likely an HT) as kind of an cheap insurance policy. If I got an HT (vis-a-vis a mobile rig), I could simply take it with me if I stopped somewhere for lunch or whatever or set it in the trunk, etc.

I hear the Icom IC-V86 is excellent for RR reception - a pretty solid HT. I may go that route.

Hopefully this'll make sense and add a little clarification where I wasn't clear.

All the best & thanks again for your thoughts & suggestion.

 

[kudzu_kid]

Should read "I live about 1600' from the nearest RR crossing..." -- Roughly a block and a half.

 

[devicelab]

Without a doubt, get a TK-7180 from E-Bay or a hamfest. I purchased my VHF unit for $90 off E-Bay but sadly prices have gone up. I'm posting a link but it's just for reference only. The model has a front-firing speaker and glorious Kenwood audio. A USB programming cable runs about $25 and the programming software is free on the interwebs. It's super easy to program and again, the audio sounds fantastic. You could program all of the RR channels in and have a party. Oh and it's great for HAM radio too.

Match the 7180 with a VHF antenna (or ideally one cut for RR frequencies) and you'll be golden.

KENWOOD TK-7180H 136-174 MHZ 50W WITH NEW ACCESSORIES WITH KENWOOD KMC65 MIC. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for KENWOOD TK-7180H 136-174 MHZ 50W WITH NEW ACCESSORIES WITH KENWOOD KMC65 MIC. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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[cbehr91]

Since some of the suggestions began coming in, I've done a little research, I have a question or two for you.

Is the Kenwood TM 281 the same thing as a TM 281A (if not, what's the difference) ? Is it true that the unit doesn't have a squelch control? Interesting.

I see the V82 & V86 appear to be in my price range, and I have a fondness for Icom anyhow (and then Kenwood). So, if my research is correct - I think the V82 requires modification for RR coverage, whereas the V86 would not (at least for receive) - is that in line with what you understand? Looks as if both of these (Icom) can be had reasonably priced from what I see.

Thanks & Good Weekend To All

Correct, the TM-281A doesn't have squelch control like a scanner you'd be used to. It has level 0...1...2, etc. I think it has S-meter squelch too, but I never used it.

The V82 can receive the railroad band unmodified. I used to have one also. It's an older radio, not narrowband, and wouldn't be as selective as newer Icoms (over the past decade Icom's receive performance has gotten much better).

Before spending a bunch of money on a radio I'd look into getting a better antenna set up, but you'd probably be happy with the Icom V86 or its mobile big brother, the IC-2300. In a pinch you could run it at home with a power supply.

 

[AK9R]

Is the Kenwood TM 281 the same thing as a TM 281A (if not, what's the difference) ?

TM-281 is a somewhat generic term. TM-281A is a TM-281 intended for the North American market (as opposed to the TM-281E which is intended for the European market). If you buy a TM-281 from a North American amateur radio store, it will be a TM-281A. If you buy it from some mystery person on Ebay, it could be a Japanese-spec radio that cannot be modified for the amateur radio band plan used in North America or Europe. Beware of anyone selling a new TM-281 at a much lower price than the U.S. amateur radio stores.

 

[kudzu_kid]

TM-281 is a somewhat generic term. TM-281A is a TM-281 intended for the North American market (as opposed to the TM-281E which is intended for the European market). If you buy a TM-281 from a North American amateur radio store, it will be a TM-281A. If you buy it from some mystery person on Ebay, it could be a Japanese-spec radio that cannot be modified for the amateur radio band plan used in North America or Europe. Beware of anyone selling a new TM-281 at a much lower price than the U.S. amateur radio stores.

Another voice in favor of a TM-281! Great to know... thanks for filling in the blanks for me. I do appreciate it. BTW, I created a spreadsheet of any makes & models suggested here, then I'm researching them a little and commenting back in the spreadsheet - assorted columns - like approx used cost, does it need modification for RR RX (Yes, No, Unknown) can it even be modded (Yes, No, Unknown), other points, etc. Yes, I'm sure that's a bit obsessive, but if people are kind enough to respond to my posts here, I'm going to put the responses to use when practical, LOL. Thanks for your comments!

 

[Nasby]

I was between the TM-281 and Ic2300. I ended up getting the TM-281 but kinda wish I had the IC 2300 to do a sensitivity comparison between the two.

 

[devicelab]

I was between the TM-281 and Ic2300. I ended up getting the TM-281 but kinda wish I had the IC 2300 to do a sensitivity comparison between the two.

Don't regret your decision. Kenwood has always made better mobile radios IMHO. I couldn't stand my V8000 because its squelch would open if Mars transitioned by Venus. The TM281 was the best mobile radio I've used -- until I had the pleasure of using Kenwood's commercial mobiles. They're a
step up and the 7180/8180 or 5720/5820 are excellent rigs. I love the Kenwood microphones too.