Monitoring Pinellas on a HP-1

[Koneill]

I am looking for some assistance on using a Home Patrol 1 to monitor the Pinellas County system, mainly FD/EMS.
I have recently acquired a HP-1 that seems to be in good working order. I have the latest version of Sentinel software and updated the firmware and frequency database. I have read older posts here on RR and believe that if I want to monitor public safety I should be only monitoring certain sites. I have created a favorites list for the FD tg's + SO Patrol 3 & 4, and believe I have it set to monitor only Site 5.
My problem is that I only seem to hear a fraction of the radio traffic. I may hear an initial FD dispatch, but wont hear the units responding. I will hear an SO unit call out a traffic stop on Patrol 4, but wont hear the response from dispatch, or wont hear any subsequent transmissions. I happen to have another radio that operates on the system so I can confirm that there is a lot of traffic that I am missing.
I was wondering if anyone has any insight? I monitor the system from my home in the Trinity area near the Pasco county line, and from work in Tarpon Springs. I use both the original antenna for the HP1 and a mobile Larsen tri band scanner antenna on a mag mount. I can monitor the Hillsborough EDACS system from home, and listen to Hernando County when I am up in that area without issues, so I assume the HP1 is operating OK.
Is this operator error, simulcast issues? Is there is any thing that I am missing or settings I should use when monitoring Pinellas on a HP1?
Thank you!

 

[emscapt9816]

Welcome to Radio Reference. The first thing I would look at is the antenna. When I had my HP-1, I found the included factory antenna to be less than stellar. Switching to the REM-830B, and then an outdoor OCFD antenna improved reception.

 

[fredva]

There is a very good chance you are seeing the effects of trying to monitor a P25 digital simulcast system (Pinellas has such a system) with a scanner not built for simulcast. EDACS systems do not cause that issue.

 

[Koneill]

Thanks for the reply.
I have tried using 2 different antennas, and the experience with missed traffic is the same when monitoring the Pinellas system. I am also able to monitor other systems without similar problems. Its as if the radio is not tracking the trunking system properly? I do agree the included antenna is pretty basic. But the Larsen mobile antenna I use has served me well.

 

[Koneill]

Fredva, I was wondering if simulcast was the issue. I am not familiar with the issues simulcast can cause so I thought I would reach out here. I dont know if setting to only monitor one site would help.

 

[fredva]

Fredva, I was wondering if simulcast was the issue. I am not familiar with the issues simulcast can cause so I thought I would reach out here. I dont know if setting to only monitor one site would help.

The problems with simulcast are within an individual site. In a simulcast system, a site is not a single transmitter at a specific location, but rather a collection of transmitters spread out over a certain area that all transmit on the same frequency at the same time. It's all those signals coming from different transmitters at different distances, on the same frequency, and out of sync with each other that cause the simulcast distortion. There is a possibility that switching to a site that is farther away might help, because it limits the out of sync signals coming to your scanner. However, that site that is farther away may or may not carry all the traffic for units close to you.

If the other radio you are using is a professional radio (like a Motorola or Harris), that would explain why it receives better. Those radios are made to deal with simulcast systems.

 

[Koneill]

Yes my other radio is a Motorola professional radio that is on the system. Of course, it works as it should.
I don't know if anyone has first hand experience with the Pinellas system and a HP1. It sounds like this my not be the best scanner for Pinellas but it was free, so hoping there might be some tricks or settings that could help.

 

[N9JCQ]

The problems with simulcast are within an individual site. In a simulcast system, a site is not a single transmitter at a specific location, but rather a collection of transmitters spread out over a certain area that all transmit on the same frequency at the same time. It's all those signals coming from different transmitters at different distances, on the same frequency, and out of sync with each other that cause the simulcast distortion. There is a possibility that switching to a site that is farther away might help, because it limits the out of sync signals coming to your scanner. However, that site that is farther away may or may not carry all the traffic for units close to you.

If the other radio you are using is a professional radio (like a Motorola or Harris), that would explain why it receives better. Those radios are made to deal with simulcast systems.

Fredva, can I say that your detail about simulcast issues was written perfectly for those not familiar with the topic. Maybe making the explanation into a sticky would be useful.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Fredva, can I say that your detail about simulcast issues was written perfectly for those not familiar with the topic. Maybe making the explanation into a sticky would be useful.

Stealing for future use, LOL. I tend to explain to about 10 or more posters a day what simulcast distortion is

 

[ngel]

I am also monitoring from trinity area using a TRX1. What I found that works best for me monitoring Pinellas system site 5 is to put the whole site on attenuate and use the antenna mentioned above. It Is definitely simulcast because there is a tower in Eastlake and also one in Tarpon which causes simulcast for the trinity area. On the old analog system you could hear Pinellas all the way to Hernando County but range has definitely decreased with the new digital system.

Another thing to consider is that FD , and SO both have high usage of MDT on routine calls so while you might hear them dispatched, you may not hear much else after that. Same with SO, when they call in tags you probably won’t hear much else besides dispatch acknowledge them as the field units are simultaneously looking at the tag on their computer in the car.

 

[Koneill]

Ngel, thanks for the info! I will try to use the attenuate feature. Just to be be clear, are you referring to use of the original HP1 antenna? And am I correct in using site 5 or are you aware of another site that I should select?

I am also familiar with the MDT usage, but when using my other radio in the same room, I can hear radio traffic that the scanner is missing.

 

[mitbr]

To the OP...... Sitting beside me is an HP1 which I use all the time listening to the Pinellas system. It works fine. Site 5 is the simulcast site in the county and is the only site that carries the FD and EMS along with all other agencies. If you are having problems with simulcast you can try site 2 it is not simulcast and should be strong in your area. Site 2 carries PCSO and SPD and nothing else. Welcome to the forums!
Tim

 

[zlandmedia]

To the OP...... Sitting beside me is an HP1 which I use all the time listening to the Pinellas system. It works fine. Site 5 is the simulcast site in the county and is the only site that carries the FD and EMS along with all other agencies. If you are having problems with simulcast you can try site 2 it is not simulcast and should be strong in your area. Site 2 carries PCSO and SPD and nothing else. Welcome to the forums!
Tim

Aren't you on the Tampa side of the bay? I can't remember if you've mentioned which side, since I know you monitor Hillsborough as well. If you're in Hillsborough, then simulcast isn't so much an issue due being far away enough from the system but still within listening range.

Also, all sites on the system are simulcast.

 

[ngel]

Ngel, thanks for the info! I will try to use the attenuate feature. Just to be be clear, are you referring to use of the original HP1 antenna? And am I correct in using site 5 or are you aware of another site that I should select?

hello the 800 mhz remtronix antenna mentioned above works great. The stock is not going to work as well as the remotronix one. Use site 5, that is what I use to monitor FD and SO. The scanner will probably not work as well as the Motorola one you have no matter what you do, unless you get an SDS100 which is made for simulcast.

 

[mitbr]

Aren't you on the Tampa side of the bay? I can't remember if you've mentioned which side, since I know you monitor Hillsborough as well. If you're in Hillsborough, then simulcast isn't so much an issue due being far away enough from the system but still within listening range.

Also, all sites on the system are simulcast.

I am in Dunedin..... even though all the sites may be simulcast site 2 and 10 don't seem to have the same issues with simulcast as site 5.
Tim

 

[fredva]

Often, people recommend a poor performing antenna to try to mitigate the effects of simulcast. It has the same function as using the attenuation - trying to cut down the number of transmitters you are receiving. Ideally, you'd only get the signal from one transmitter, so that the others farther away won't interfere. Little stubby antennas and even paperclips have been used for this purpose. Success isn't guaranteed though. The location of the scanner has a lot to do with how severe or how minimal the simulcast distortion will be. Being just outside the jurisdiction that has simulcast can actually be better than being within the jurisdiction, because most of the transmitters are out of range.

 

[zlandmedia]

I am in Dunedin..... even though all the sites may be simulcast site 2 and 10 don't seem to have the same issues with simulcast as site 5.
Tim

Copy that! Didn't know Hillsborough came in that clear over there.

Also, looking at the maps it could be you are in a sweet spot that's far enough away from any of the transmitters. Closest transmitters to Dunedin are off of 580 in Safety Harbor or off Alternate 19 between Palm Harbor and Tarpon Springs.

 

[n3obl]

Sometimes less antenna is better for simulcast.