New radios for first responders

[WB3DYE]

Federal, state and local first responders stationed anywhere in Virginia will soon be able to communicate seamlessly during emergencies through the state’s internet-connected radio system.

The program, called COMLINC, or the Commonwealth Link to Interoperable Communications, secured $6.5 million in statewide funding for the first time on Wednesday, according to an announcement from Gov. Ralph Northam. While COMLINC has been around since 2007 as an optional tool for 911 centers around the state to connect first responders working for different agencies, communities previously had to pay for it themselves.

Virginia boosts funding for internet-connected public safety radio | StateScoop

A radio system that connects first responders across jurisdictions during emergencies has secured $6.5 million in new funding.

statescoop.com

 

[W4UVV]

Federal, state and local first responders stationed anywhere in Virginia will soon be able to communicate seamlessly during emergencies through the state’s internet-connected radio system.

The program, called COMLINC, or the Commonwealth Link to Interoperable Communications, secured $6.5 million in statewide funding for the first time on Wednesday, according to an announcement from Gov. Ralph Northam. While COMLINC has been around since 2007 as an optional tool for 911 centers around the state to connect first responders working for different agencies, communities previously had to pay for it themselves.

Virginia boosts funding for internet-connected public safety radio | StateScoop

A radio system that connects first responders across jurisdictions during emergencies has secured $6.5 million in new funding.

statescoop.com

-------------
WB3DYE, I was in the process of posting this item which appeared in our monthly Prince George County newsletter.

Here is some STARS COMLINC Div1 & 5 monitoring history I monitored. The STARS COMLINC basically was an operop STARS talkgroup within each seven VSP STARS divisions when introduced approximately 15 years ago. For example, VSP Division 1 was "COMLINC1"; VSP Division 2 was "COMLINC2" thru VSP Division 7 "COMLINC7". When initially tested I believe with Henrico Co., it was a significant failure due to various technical linked issues which plagued COMLINC1 for a number of years. The last COMLINC test I monitored maybe 1-2 years ago was in VSP Division 5 (COMLINC) either possibly with Surry Co. or Isle of Wight Co. which was successful. I think the VSP Division 1 COMLINC testing was representative of most other VSP Divisions. Another "grand plan" proposal involved installing COMLINC in counties adjacent to the James River which never happened.

If the past is any indication of COMLINC's past poor performance history I would very be careful touting COMLINC now a new statewide standalone trs as a "seamlessly" first responder radio system using different heirarchy accesses at a multi-user level interop access. Time will tell one way or the other to which it evolves. It looks like a "Son of STARS" standalone trs.

The inference is COMLINC now will be multiple VFD/EMS groups/sub-talkgroups probably regionally configured as within one of the seven VSP Divisions now in STARS. Somehow there has to be a separate link back to the STARS system to some degree.

Here below was the Fall/Winter 2019 text article in the Prince George Co. Newsletter:

PUBLIC RADIO SYSTEM UPDATE:

The Board of Supervisors at its September 24 meeting got its first glimpse of the proposal for the Public Safety. Representatives from Altaris presented the details of the project which is estimated to cost $11.2 million (Really...you think so?...The key word is "estimated" translated = "the first downpayment". The system is designed to increase coverage for all pubic safety personnel through the installation of additional cell towers and modernized equipment. (Until the required equipment upgrades make the original equipment obsolete). The system will be an asset to both career and volunteer personnel who respond to Fire & EMS calls. In addition, the Police Department will have increased capability for greater communication that includes backup units on the scene when needed.(Attn: Hopewell Auxillary Police you also one day might be a backup unit on scene and you also might justify getting your own STARS like radio. Of course the dispatcher has to have an office STARS like radio too. Think it won't happen?. Don't bet against it. It will be Xmas time for the VFD and especially EMS first responders. They have wanted their own personal assigned STARS radios for years. Now they probably will get them with the new trs.....thousands of new personal radios issued statewide. Don't forget the SOs and PDs first responders. They will want their new radios too.The BOS is expected to select a provider to install the system at one of its October meetings.

***My comments are shown in italics.

John
W4UVV

 

[Drachen_Fire]

There's nothing wrong with individual responders getting their own radios. Happens a lot up here.

 

[Drachen_Fire]

Now, I've never heard of this system, though. Seems like a set of talkgroups on STARS?

 

[BM82557]

Now, I've never heard of this system, though. Seems like a set of talkgroups on STARS?

Looks like it, they're listed in the Interoperability/Mutual Aid Talkgroups section of the Virginia STARS database

 

[BoxAlarm187]

PUBLIC RADIO SYSTEM UPDATE:

The Board of Supervisors at its September 24 meeting got its first glimpse of the proposal for the Public Safety. Representatives from Altaris presented the details of the project which is estimated to cost $11.2 million (Really...you think so?...The key word is "estimated" translated = "the first downpayment". The system is designed to increase coverage for all pubic safety personnel through the installation of additional cell towers and modernized equipment. (Until the required equipment upgrades make the original equipment obsolete). The system will be an asset to both career and volunteer personnel who respond to Fire & EMS calls. In addition, the Police Department will have increased capability for greater communication that includes backup units on the scene when needed.(Attn: Hopewell Auxillary Police you also one day might be a backup unit on scene and you also might justify getting your own STARS like radio. Of course the dispatcher has to have an office STARS like radio too. Think it won't happen?. Don't bet against it. It will be Xmas time for the VFD and especially EMS first responders. They have wanted their own personal assigned STARS radios for years. Now they probably will get them with the new trs.....thousands of new personal radios issued statewide. Don't forget the SOs and PDs first responders. They will want their new radios too.The BOS is expected to select a provider to install the system at one of its October meetings.

***My comments are shown in italics.

John
W4UVV

The BOS awarded the contract for a 9-site, P25 800MHz system to L3Harris (formerly Harris), and the contract includes (systemwide) 249 mobile radios, 356 handhelds, and 200 pagers. That's not nearly enough radios for all individuals to have their own individual radio, especially since the contract includes the 200 pagers (which is safe to assume would be issued to active FD/RS volunteers).

The nice thing is that the Harris system could be configured with permanent gateways in the ECC that will be allow seamless communications with surrounding jurisdictions, even ones that aren't P25.

As for the COMLINK, I think there's some misunderstanding about it. It's not a new system, or special regional systems. It's simply a way for the state's inidivdual PSAP's to be able to connect disparate radio systems or communications centers together. It's existed for over 15 years, but becuase the individual localities had to fund their hardware, most rural localities didn't have it. With the new funding, this brings PSAP/ECC interoperability possibilities to the entire Commonwealth.

 

[W4UVV]

Now, I've never heard of this system, though. Seems like a set of talkgroups on STARS?

-----------
I doubt that the first responders you refer to are using $5,000-$6,000 radios like STARS radios. There is a world of difference using a standalone repeater HT and a trunked system radio. I concluded the same thing regarding COMLINC .... a STARS talkgroup evolving into a system.

Here is the argument of the "wannabes" regarding COMLINC, i.e. a talkgroup (max 7 VSP Divisions COMLINC different ids). What is the definition of a "first responder"? What is the criteria required to qualify to be personally assigned a STARS radio? What happens if the assignee loses the radio or it is stolen or more typical his/her kids get hold of it like in the past I heard them on one of FBI area vhf repeaters. Notice in my text the definition of a "first responder" already appears to have broadened to also consideration to those employees at whatever local, city or county law enforcement level (possibly auxillary police?). Viewed from that perspective, in my opinion, they also could qualify under some circumstances to qualify for a personally assigned STARS radio. Last time I heard how much a STARS radio cost, it was approximately $5,000-$6,000 each and required programing by the NOC located in Richmond including all the appropriate STARS site affiliations for the impacted STARS sites of the user. This is only one of the issues which has to be resolved before passing out STARS radios to "first responders" whomever they may be, excluding the appropriate current city/town/county authorized VFD and EMS personnel.

I monitor STARS frequently. One of the later STARS system users was the Dept. of Health (DOH). There are maybe 75-80 facilities statewide with the smaller sized facilities grouped within specific geographical regions/areas and sub-areas. Some DOH facilities are scattered about in western VA rural areas with a relatively small work force personnel.

I recall hearing of a DOH employee in a smaller western VA DOH facility who was tasked take some medicine to a home bound elderly person and provide assistance/recommendations for her situation. He was not happy that his local county VFD and EMS first responder members had personal radios assigned to them and he did not have a DOH radio with which to contact his facility in situations which required him to go to the "field" driving his vehicle with fuel reimbursements. His DOH facility was issued one STARS radio for the monthly net check-ins. This DOH rural employee did have his personal cell phone with him.
But he wanted a DOH STARS radio because he considered himself just as much of a "first responder" than the local area VFD or EMS "first responders". He further argued that he also wanted direct comm capability with his Division VSP if needed. He noted that on the way to his destination with the elderly person, he passed a vehicle wreck along the way. If he had his personally assigned STARS radio, the responding county Deputy Sheriff or VSP trooper could be on scene much quicker. He did not want to have to use his personal cellphone to call "*77" to contact the VSP. He wanted to call the VSP on his personally assigned STARS $5,000-$6,000 radio! After all he too also was a "first responder" as frequently it was part of his job in the local DOH facility where he worked.

Now do you begin to see the "can of worms" which this subject very quickly can become? Let's see if the definition of who is a "first responder" now will have been redefined again by this time next year. In my opinion, this new COMLINC sub-system/system is just asking to be "gamed" as to who is considered a "first responder"and eligible to be issued a STARS radio.

John
W4UVV



.

 

[BoxAlarm187]

I'm not sure how the Governor's office giving monies to localities to get Comlink in their local PSAP's/ECC's has evolved into an assumed explosion of STARS use in the coming year.

 

[W4UVV]

I'm not sure how the Governor's office giving monies to localities to get Comlink in their local PSAP's/ECC's has evolved into an assumed explosion of STARS use in the coming year.

-----------------
Good question. It will be interesting to see what the specifics of the new "First Responders" trs will be and what inter face link, if any, it will have with the present STARS system's VSP Divisions.

Below are the seven STARS VSP Division's interop talkgroups:

Division 1 Richmond = 6127
Division 2 Culpeper= 6132
Division 3 Appomattox= 6139
Division 4 Wytheville= 6377
Division 5 Chesapeake= 6145
Division 6 Salem= 6383
Division 7 Fairfax= 6151

John
W4UVV

 

[W4UVV]

In reference to my previous post on the state government DOH employee "wannabe" who considers himself also a "first responder" who argued for recognition and therefore he should receive, in his current circumstance a STARS radio to use. That will not happen under STARS. Regardless of the system used, he still wants a "first responder" radio. He might eventually be issued one with the pronouncement of a new "first responder" trs network. Regardless, it still will be an issue requiring resolution a decision one way or the other..

John
W4UVV

 

[trainman111]

I think there's some confusion here. First responders aren't being issued "STARS radios". Comlinc (Communications Link) is simply an internet based interface to allow local agencies to connect to the STARS system via patches, thus, in theory, enabling jurisdictions throughout the Commonwealth to communicate with each other via patch. Henrico has had the capability for several years and has a separate "STARS" window on the Motorola console monitor to patch to the STARS system, but has not been used since the initial test that I am aware of.

 

[WB3DYE]

John:


Pa had a similar situation. in 2000 179 million dollars was set aside for an 800 MHz trunked system --It was plagued with problems--lack of coverage especially in the mountains Big surprise there. I told the project manager who is a ham, that 800 MHz in the rough terrain areas would not work as well as VHF. It'sappx 880 MILLION DOLLARS OVER BUDGET. Now the state is dumping 800 MHz and going back to VHF.

Here is more background.

'

Pennsylvania Department of the Auditor General -Auditor General DePasquale Launches Review of Statewide Radio Network



Statewide radio a nearly billion-dollar boondoggle

 

[Drachen_Fire]

I don't get all the talk of "wannabes" in all bold. This is a Virginia thing I never understood. What do these wannabes pick up when they get to the station? A trunked radio. Stars radios aren't 6 grand, because XTS series VHF portables aren't 6 grand. More like a few hundred.

Eh, same dumb old arguments made for the past 2 decades. I remember ridiculous Boomers telling me that Maxtracs and STXs were illegal to own and how the Federal government had to give consent to get a pager on Chesterfield's old standalone system when I was a teenager, too. Nothing new.

 

[BoxAlarm187]

I don't get all the talk of "wannabes" in all bold. This is a Virginia thing I never understood. What do these wannabes pick up when they get to the station? A trunked radio. Stars radios aren't 6 grand, because XTS series VHF portables aren't 6 grand. More like a few hundred.

This isn't a "Virginia thing." While there may be anecdotal evidence of some state employees who want their own STARS radios, there isn't (and never has been) a push for local responders to get STARS-capable radios.

Sure, VHF XTS radios are a few hundred dollars - because they haven't been made since 2013. Heck, Motorola is ending support for them in a few months. An APX is now one's only choice for STARS, and if you've got a source for feature-laden APX's for a few hundred dollars, I bet the Commonwealth would be interested.

I think there's some confusion here. First responders aren't being issued "STARS radios"...

THIS is exactly what I've been trying to say...it's a not a new system, there aren't going to be new STARS radios, and field responders won't have anything new. This is something simply for the PSAP's/communications centers.

 

[Drachen_Fire]

Yeah, it is. Just different permutations. Endless talk out of either side of the mouth about how responders shouldn't be permitted their own radios, fueled by untruths and disinformation, when said responder will simply pick up a trunk radio when they get to the station, and there's then absolutely no difference. I've heard it since 1996. It's tired BS at this point. I moved away from Virginia over a decade ago, and haven't heard it since. Asking to get a radio on a trunk is as easy as asking, not being a spazz, and being told which system package to get. Easy peasy.

There's no difference in using a new APX and a used XTS on STARS. It's a Phase 1 trunk. The only difference between the two is a bunch of talk about warranties and service contracts, and Mother M always spins up the Brass to make more money.

Beside the point, though. This appears to simply be ISSI overlays connected through a STARS talkgroup. Sort of a patched regional Interop deal. In which case, no one would need a STARS radio.

 

[Drachen_Fire]

Edit to add - A brand new APX4000 in VHF with the proper system package for STARS clocks in at around 2k, depending on options.

 

[BoxAlarm187]

Asking to get a radio on a trunk is as easy as asking, not being a spazz, and being told which system package to get.

I respectfully disagree. There are reasons for individual personnel to have, or not to have, individual radios. The system stakeholders should make those decisions in the best interest of the public and the members of the agency(ies). Having individually-issued radios, on any system, brings about accountability issues that aren't as rampant when the radios are assigned to specific vehicles at a station.

 

[Drachen_Fire]

You seem to be missing my point. Our system admins here are much more relaxed, as long as you belong on the system. In many cases, if you aren't a known spazz, and you go through the proper channels, even for a trunked system, you'll get what you asked for.

Also, unlike Virginia, the powers that be here understand that volunteers are exactly that, and haven't spent the bulk of the last 30 years taking away needed tools for the job, attempting to force volunteers to staff a station like a paid job.

 

[BoxAlarm187]

OK, I follow what you're saying as respect to your existing situation versus what Chesterfield was like 20 years ago. Since you lived here, you know that Virginia is a huge state with many different approaches to volunteer-based response - making blanket statements about all VA agencies is simply inaccurate.

 

[Drachen_Fire]

My statements apply mostly to Central VA and NorVA. The corporatist upscale bug bit HARD there. I've been through rural VA and still saw the hallmarks I'm familiar with from here - POV dash lights, heard personal radios on the air, unstaffed stations, etc.

Even MotoTRBO, apparently. I think the snooty corporatism comes with massive amounts of Uncle Sam's money.