New SDR CommRadio CR-1

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W8RMV

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I would like to see it on this list:
Receiver Test Data

If there is download soon that fixes the bogus IF BW settings I would loan my CR-1 to Rob Sherwood for testing.
prcguy

I have had several conversations with Rob Sherwood about his list. Rob has been very good at exposing design weaknesses on both receive & transmit. The first thing Rob will tell you is his ranking is based upon just one measurement that is particularly important to him, DRNS/ARRL RMDR. So, if that measurement is of little or no concern to the user, then the user should look at the other measurements in the list or if they aren't there then the user should look for some other site that lists those attributes. For example, the CR1 usually has better audio than my R75. Maybe that is more important to a user than DRNS. Also, when I look at his list, I see the R75 is way down the list, yet many users are very happy with that model. It rates a 4.6 on EHam.

You will also hear from Rob about AGC issues some radios have. I know he would have been a big critic of the old CR1 software where the AGC would take out the receive.

Bottom line, I still refer to Rob’s list & I am grateful for the things Rob has done for our hobby, but the ranking is from the final word for me. – 73 Bob
 
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SCPD

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I would love to see a detailed measurement by Rob.
I never read the ranking in the sense that the 1st place is the "perfect" radio in all areas.

Though his ranking is primarily focussed on real "RF battlefield" situations; extreme close range dynamic behaviour, the table shows much more very valuable information about general performance.

I fully share Rob's criticizm on some manufacturer's DSP AGC algorithms.
Many analog AGC systems outperform IF DSP AGC in terms of transient behaviour.

73
Paul
PD0PSB
 

K0OD

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I wonder where the CR-1 would fit in this list.

Probably far down that list, but that shouldn't be a major problem for SWLing with small antennas. QST and Sherwood tests mostly look to simulating the receiver's performance on ham bands crowded with strong stations, as in DX contests. The QST matrix says: "Subject of measurement, band: 14 MHz". Sherwood only looks at 20 meters too

Those tests don't include about a bazillion important qualities.

While on this subject, is a schematic available for the CR-1? A block diagram? My Flex-5000 has some excellent "Sherwood" specs on ham bands, but that's because of its extensive bandpass filtering.

Does the CR-1 have any hardware filtering up front?
 

prcguy

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What important qualities do you think are missing from the Sherwood test, which are similar but more trusted than the ARRL testing?

The Sherwood tests cover all the really important specs that define high performance and most of these are challenging and expensive for mfrs to get high marks. Front end band pass filtering would not improve these specs much if any because one of the most difficult things to improve in a receiver are the close spaced dynamic range specs. This requires very low noise LOs, very high level mixers, careful attention to gain structure, roofing and IF filters if its a hetrodyne receiver and so on.

You have probably noticed the Flex-5000 has a very quiet noise floor yet its very sensitive and that's because of some of the items I listed above. Many other receivers are in overload all the time and are producing Intermodulation Distortion which raises the noise floor and once you experience a high end receiver its hard to go backwards.

BTW, even with some of the flaws and menu items that don't work the CR-1 gives the impression your using a high end receiver with its surprisingly low noise floor.
prcguy



Probably far down that list, but that shouldn't be a major problem for SWLing with small antennas. QST and Sherwood tests mostly look to simulating the receiver's performance on ham bands crowded with strong stations, as in DX contests. The QST matrix says: "Subject of measurement, band: 14 MHz". Sherwood only looks at 20 meters too

Those tests don't include about a bazillion important qualities.

While on this subject, is a schematic available for the CR-1? A block diagram? My Flex-5000 has some excellent "Sherwood" specs on ham bands, but that's because of its extensive bandpass filtering.

Does the CR-1 have any hardware filtering up front?
 

K0OD

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Here Rob Sherwood very quickly talks about receivers, including some things not shown on his matrix such as audio and ergonomics.

http://dj0ip.de/app/download/5780818520/NC0B-Dayton+2008+Audio.mp3

Here's some of his other presentations.

{ SHERWOOD PRESENTATIONS } - Ham Radio Site


"Let's first listen to what Rob says about choosing a radio:

"I have many times said 'one needs to enjoy using the radio’ as the NUMBER ONE aspect of its performance".

He went on to say: "I did not like a couple of radios near the top of my list due to their cruddy audio. Many of today's radios are annoying on SSB due to their inability to copy with any impulse noise. If a radio's AGC is no good, forget it. If its ALC is not good, reject. 'Audio is harsh' is a definite no no. I always ask a ham who calls me up and asks which radio to buy, “how do you operate?” What modes? CW, SSB? Contests, DX, rag chewing? Etc.""
 

WB2KTG

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itsnotmyblood78-

Hi! Don't worry about burn-in of OLED's. They're very bright at high setting. I have mine at ~50% and they're still plenty bright for outdoors, not directly in the sun. No burn-in.

Please check your RadioReference PM's, I just sent you one.

Bob
 

W8RMV

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OLED

I am not aware of any OLED burn issue. But I am aware of a striping issue on the Yaesu FTdx-5000 on one of it's small OLEDs.

Like all components, they are not all created equal. I like the display on my CR1. I hope it stays bright & crisp. The only problem I had was a finger smudge on the surface of the OLED that I removed after a little disassembly. - 73 Bob V
 

WB2KTG

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Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Don / CommRadio uses an EMI shielded OLED display, just to keep the inside EMI from getting outside. That's well beyond the 'garden variety' display.
 
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Re OLED, the ongoing debate and other thoughts

Ugh, I'm apparently off my leash and no longer need a moderator to preview my replies before they are posted, but this response doesn't appear to have shown up, I'm tired and my eyesight is real bad, so I'm wondering if I missed something when replying. Really hope that's it and it's not going to be slow site software or my leash not being removed that turns this into a delayed double post, given the post is so long. I'll clean this up via edit somehow if it does.


Thanks guys for settling my OLED burn-in concerns, I've seen some of the LED tech with new weird colour phosphors change spectrum and output over time, especially in the earlier hours of its life. So I thought it may be a valid concern.

Here Rob Sherwood very quickly talks about receivers, including some things not shown on his matrix such as audio and ergonomics.

"Let's first listen to what Rob says about choosing a radio:

"I have many times said 'one needs to enjoy using the radio’ as the NUMBER ONE aspect of its performance"

Couldn't agree more, my evaluation of value when considering the CR-1 incorporates the complete package. I have been a wideband receiver enthusiast since the early 90's, as a teen and into my early twenties I was saving my money to get my hands on some of the more advanced handheld rx's and have well come to live with the no one receiver seems to have everything issue, so I see this as no different. Some of my favourites over the years have not been top of the ladder in all out performance or features, but the overall package has come together in ways important to me and so I've found the radio a joy to use..

For me ergonomics are pretty important, does it have that feel of a proper table top radio? This is where the PC interfaced SDR we all love tends to fall apart on end user experience. A cheaper portable like some of the Tec-sun and Degen offerings that seem to have value written all over them, or even something high end on Grundig, Sangean or Sony's repertoire (new or used) likewise is probably unlikely to satisfy for similar reasons.... Portability obviously helps in my situation, AM mode audio is high on my priority list. as I do program listen a lot. This isn't the 80's, on a HF tabletop I'd kinda expect more tools for working trashy conditions. Indications are though that the radio hears well, is it more of a smartly chosen "one size fits all" approach in the aim of simplicity? I'm willing to be shown and I guess 5KHz in AM is a compromise between the 6 & 4 KHz I tend to like to work AM with, before dropping to ECSSB.... still... 2013, It's hard not to expect the technology to have moved forward and be offering me a bigger tool box for my money than what was available 20 years ago. Lack of even simple tone control has me bummed a bit, I've frequently found it to be the difference between making a difficult signal copiable and a slightly irritating signal pleasant... Taking inspiration from an earlier post, I have a Roland Micro-cube amp which has line-in, runs off batteries, has tone control and I expect would give excellent audio, though I've not tried it before and its gear I'd rather not try to lug about.

The CR-1 does really seem to anecdotally excel in some areas important to me and to at least deliver well in others, so I have high hopes I could see decent value out of one, without having unrealistic expectations.

My remaining concerns are how it survives in an urban environment? Does it play well with active antennas, I will likely use an active tuneable loop to help null out some of the local noise.
Lastly the QA is still a bit scary, mostly because of the cost and time to work with a company on the opposite side of the world. Though by the looks of it, I'll have the luxury of customer service, where the manufacturer/distributor actually takes an active interest in making sure the customer is happy and the in house turn around appears to be quick.

Ahhh fence sitting, it's frustrating at times, I hope mine isn't for you guys.
Thanks everyone.
Paul.

itsnotmyblood78-

Please check your RadioReference PM's, I just sent you one.

Bob

Thanks for the pm Bob, my sleep tends to be broken, so I caught the email notification of activity on this site and started responding, even though I knew I should have gone back to bed. Typical of me, this response took way longer than I expected. As usual I'm flat-out just trying to fit life in between sleep. my schedule and my responsibilities, but I'll get back to you soon when my brain doesn't feel so much like it's swimming in molasses. :)
 

disapa

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My remaining concerns are how it survives in an urban environment? Does it play well with active antennas, I will likely use an active tuneable loop to help null out some of the local noise.

Hello There. I can at least answer this for you! Yes the CR1 works very well with active antennas. I have a par swl wire antenna ,a pixel pro 1B active loop, an alpha delta sloper, and an rf systems dx10 active vertical antenna. They all work very well with the CR1. The pixel loop is my favorite of all of them,the low noise from this loop really shows the low noise floor of the CR1.You can hear even the faintest of signals! I also use a miracle antenna when I want to be truly portable and that works well also. I was able to take the CR1 and the miracle whip to the south carolina shore last weekend and it proved to work very well! I was able to switch back and forth from my CR1 and AOR 8200mk3 right on the beach! Cool and very compact! Hope this tidbit helps a little. I hate sitting on that fence too long when making decisions!!! Dion
 

SCPD

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Is a Noise Blanker and/or Noise Reduction available or planned for urban area man made noise?

73
Paul
PD0PSB
 

shortwaver

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Is a Noise Blanker and/or Noise Reduction available or planned for urban area man made noise?

73
Paul
PD0PSB

Just speaking from my short experience with the radio, I use the CR-1 with a Par End fed wire antenna (most times just strung around my deck). About 15 feet away is my 50 plasma (always on) and several dimmer switches in close proximity. I have found the radio to be exceedingly quiet under these circumstances; noise just doesn't seem to be a problem.

I do believe that they did something right with this radio to make it so quiet.
 

WB2KTG

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Troubleshooting Assistance Please

There have been several instances of the display skipping digits while turning the tuning knob. Was this problem seen ONLY after upgrading to the DSP 1892 and PIC 1883 software? I believe the revision immediately prior to the latest was DSP 1871 and PIC 1871, although in the back of my brain I think there may have been one other change that was about 2 days after the DSP 1871 / PIC 1871 change.

If you definitely only saw the display jumping after the most recent upgrade, would anyone perform a downgrade of their software and re-check to see if it still skips? I've been working with two radios, #0005 and #0300 and have not experienced any skipping - no matter what I try to do.

Thanks in advance!

Bob
 

SCPD

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Just speaking from my short experience with the radio, I use the CR-1 with a Par End fed wire antenna (most times just strung around my deck). About 15 feet away is my 50 plasma (always on) and several dimmer switches in close proximity. I have found the radio to be exceedingly quiet under these circumstances; noise just doesn't seem to be a problem.

I do believe that they did something right with this radio to make it so quiet.

Sorry Shortwaver,

That was not my question.

73
Paul
PD0PSB
 
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I can at least answer this for you! Yes the CR1 works very well with active antennas. I have a par swl wire antenna ,a pixel pro 1B active loop, an alpha delta sloper, and an rf systems dx10 active vertical antenna. They all work very well with the CR1.

Excellent, thanks for the information Dion, that's one of my more major concerns covered.

I was able to take the CR1 and the miracle whip to the south carolina shore last weekend and it proved to work very well! I was able to switch back and forth from my CR1 and AOR 8200mk3 right on the beach! Cool and very compact! Hope this tidbit helps a little. I hate sitting on that fence too long when making decisions!!! Dion

Nice, sounds like a fun time out, I owned the 8200MK2 many years ago, when it was a new hot item (2001?), performance and feature wise I think its probably the nicest wideband handheld I've owned, though the casing on it was flimsier than even most Radio Shack and Uniden offerings and I was forever accidentally hitting the 4-way rocker on the side. It was kind of a love/hate relationship, hope the Mk3 improved in those areas, I've never seen one in person.

Just speaking from my short experience with the radio, I use the CR-1 with a Par End fed wire antenna (most times just strung around my deck). About 15 feet away is my 50 plasma (always on) and several dimmer switches in close proximity. I have found the radio to be exceedingly quiet under these circumstances; noise just doesn't seem to be a problem.

Might not have answered pd0psb's noise blanker question, but that information does help abate some of my concerns about my urban environment, thank you for the info.

Thanks, Paul.
 

NRD-505

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OLED Burn-In and encoder bounce/skipping

This post has a picture of the OLED burn-in (?) noticed immediately after receiving the radio. The image persists to this day: SN:0026

http://forums.radioreference.com/1930413-post240.html

There have been several instances of the display skipping digits while turning the tuning knob. Was this problem seen ONLY after upgrading to the DSP 1892 and PIC 1883 software? I believe the revision immediately prior to the latest was DSP 1871 and PIC 1871, although in the back of my brain I think there may have been one other change that was about 2 days after the DSP 1871 / PIC 1871 change.

If you definitely only saw the display jumping after the most recent upgrade, would anyone perform a downgrade of their software and re-check to see if it still skips? I've been working with two radios, #0005 and #0300 and have not experienced any skipping - no matter what I try to do.

Thanks in advance!

Bob

The problem is not only skipping numbers the number can also increase or decrease in opposition to the tuning knob.

Say one is tunning from 9.999.9 and expects to tune to 10.000.0 and instead 9.999.8 appears.

To try to reproduce: Rotate the tuning knob *very* slowly to just the point where the number changes (crossing point) then rotate back *very* slowly over that crossing point. Do that back and forth very slowly. One may note that the numbers expected are not the ones displayed. I have seen this problem with Bournes mechanical encoders on the AOR AR7030. Also, the problem may be another manifestation of "encoder bounce" and/or how the encoder is polled.

The problem has been present since the beginning but it seems to be getting a bit aggressive over time time. With the AOR 7030 it was discovered that the contacts for the encoder were silver (plated?) and would oxidize (darken) over time amongst some other things. The encoder's performance would decrease over that time.

Have a look at Dave Zantow's AR7030 page and search for "spin wheel": AOR AR7030 Plus Communications Receiver - N9EWO

Paul
 

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NRD-505

Nicely described. This is what mine s/n 105D has been doing. I only noticed it after the latest update. It is more of an annoyance than anything. It does not really effect my use of the radio,but I wish it would not do that. It makes me feel like it will fail at some point after the warranty runs out. Dion
 

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Thank you. I guess we'll find out. It would be nice if the encoder had, say, 200 steps. One could then tune fairly quickly in 10Hz steps and the experience would be almost like analog.

A switchable whip preamp internal to the radio would be nice for portable use. Definitely room in the case.
 

MrMushroom

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I'm waiting to see if any end of month firmware updates for the CR 1. I have never seen the freq skipping that you guys talk about. mb I got a good one :)
 
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