Non Licenced Operators and Repeaters

[KG7UOH]

I was reviewing Code 97.115 (c) which states:

"No station may transmit third party communications while being automatically controlled except a station transmitting a RTTY or data emission." [1]

I assume this means that only licensed operators can ever use a repeater? In other words, even when the station licensee if present and supervising, no unlicensed operator can ever transmit via a repeater.

I'm interpreting:
Repeater = Automatically controlled station
Unlicensed Operator = Third Party

Is this accurate?

[1] Third party communications.

 

[rapidcharger]

There's one definition you're leaving out;
Control point. The location at which the control operator function is performed.

Whereas automatic control is the use of devices and procedures for control of a station without the control operator being present at a control point.

So what it's essentially saying by "No station may transmit third party communications while being automatically controlled," is that the control operator (An amateur operator designated by the licensee of a station ) must be present at the location the control operator function is performed.

Automatic control doesn't necessarily mean it's a repeater either. A repeater is a repeater. Repeaters may be controlled without a control operator being present at *A* control point.
Emphasis on the "A".

In other words, there has to be a live human there controlling. You can't just have a third party transmitting without a live licensed amateur at the control point. Best example I can think of (and it's probably not a very good example) is a third party (such as a unlicensed person) calling in via auto patch to a repeater that were to somehow automatically answer their call and they are sending traffic over the repeater without anyone at a control point to control the repeater. They could however send messages via teletype or data.

How did I do?

 

[VA2PE]

...except a station transmitting a RTTY or data emission.

Just to add a little bit of explanation, this exception allows repeaters to lawfully transmit their call signs in CW to frequent interval. Beacons are also authorized to operate under that exception.

 

[N8OHU]

There's one definition you're leaving out;
Control point. The location at which the control operator function is performed.

Whereas automatic control is the use of devices and procedures for control of a station without the control operator being present at a control point.

So what it's essentially saying by "No station may transmit third party communications while being automatically controlled," is that the control operator (An amateur operator designated by the licensee of a station ) must be present at the location the control operator function is performed.

Automatic control doesn't necessarily mean it's a repeater either. A repeater is a repeater. Repeaters may be controlled without a control operator being present at *A* control point.
Emphasis on the "A".

In other words, there has to be a live human there controlling. You can't just have a third party transmitting without a live licensed amateur at the control point. Best example I can think of (and it's probably not a very good example) is a third party (such as a unlicensed person) calling in via auto patch to a repeater that were to somehow automatically answer their call and they are sending traffic over the repeater without anyone at a control point to control the repeater. They could however send messages via teletype or data.

How did I do?

A reverse autopatch will still have a form of control operator, since the unlicensed person won't be transmitting unless a repeater user answers the call.

 

[nd5y]

97.115 (c) was written to allow automatically controlled digtial stations (pactor, packet, etc.) operating under 97.221 to store and foreward data that may contain third party traffic.

It has nothing to do with phone patches, beacons or CW ID on repeaters.

 

[rapidcharger]

A reverse autopatch will still have a form of control operator, since the unlicensed person won't be transmitting unless a repeater user answers the call.

You missed the part where I wrote " that were to somehow automatically answer their call " but I admit it wasn't the greatest example. Just the only one that came to mind.

 

[KG7UOH]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, this is very helpful. So the consensus is that a repeater is not what section 97.115 had in mind by an "automatically controlled station".

Thanks again!

 

[MTS2000des]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, this is very helpful. So the consensus is that a repeater is not what section 97.115 had in mind by an "automatically controlled station".

97.205 defines what a repeater station is and allows for a repeater to be automatically controlled:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+0]§97.205 Repeater station. (2011)
(a) Any amateur station licensed to a holder of a Technician, General, Advanced or Amateur Extra Class operator license may be a repeater. A holder of a Technician, General, Advanced or Amateur Extra Class operator license may be the control operator of a repeater, subject to the privileges of the class of operator license held.
(b) A repeater may receive and retransmit only on the 10 m and shorter wavelength frequency bands except the 28.0-29.5 MHz, 50.0-51.0 MHz, 144.0-144.5 MHz, 145.5-146.0 MHz, 222.00-222.15 MHz, 431.0-433.0 MHz, and 435.0-438.0 MHz segments.
(c) Where the transmissions of a repeater cause harmful interference to another repeater, the two station licensees are equally and fully responsible for resolving the interference unless the operation of one station is recommended by a frequency coordinator and the operation of the other station is not. In that case, the licensee of the non-coordinated repeater has primary responsibility to resolve the interference.
(d) A repeater may be automatically controlled.
(e) Ancillary functions of a repeater that are available to users on the input channel are not considered remotely controlled functions of the station. Limiting the use of a repeater to only certain user stations is permissible.
(f) [Reserved]
(g) The control operator of a repeater that retransmits inadvertently communications that violate the rules in this part is not accountable for the violative communications.
(h) The provisions of this paragraph do not apply to repeaters that transmit on the 1.2 cm or shorter wavelength bands. Before establishing a repeater within 16 km (10 miles) of the Arecibo Observatory or before changing the transmitting frequency, transmitter power, antenna height or directivity of an existing repeater, the station licensee must give written notification thereof to the Interference Office, Arecibo Observatory, HC3 Box 53995, Arecibo, Puerto Rico 00612, in writing or electronically, of the technical parameters of the proposal. Licensees who choose to transmit information electronically should e-mail to: prcz@naic.edu
1) The notification shall state the geographical coordinates of the antenna (NAD–83 datum), antenna height above mean sea level (AMSL), antenna center of radiation above ground level (AGL), antenna directivity and gain, proposed frequency and FCC Rule Part, type of emission, effective radiated power, and whether the proposed use is itinerant. Licensees may wish to consult interference guidelines provided by Cornell University.
2) If an objection to the proposed operation is received by the FCC from the Arecibo Observatory, Arecibo, Puerto Rico, within 20 days from the date of notification, the FCC will consider all aspects of the problem and take whatever action is deemed appropriate. The licensee will be required to make reasonable efforts in order to resolve or mitigate any potential interference problem with the Arecibo Observatory.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[KG7UOH]

MTS2000des:

So are you saying that a repeater is an automatically controlled station and therefore a third party cannot communicate via a repeater? (as outlined above)

 

[MTS2000des]

So are you saying that a repeater is an automatically controlled station and therefore a third party cannot communicate via a repeater? (as outlined above)

Repeaters are not always automatically controlled. 97.205 PERMITS them to be automatically controlled.

97.205 also exempts a repeater control operator from being liable for incidental and inadvertent (meaning not a participant) in any communications that may be violative communications that are retransmitted over his/her repeater under automatic control.

However, in past cases, the FCC has stipulated that automatic control does not mean unattended control, and that the FCC can place limitations on the operation of a repeater if it becomes apparent that part 97 violators frequent the machine and the control operators do nothing to stop it (e.g, the W6NUT repeater). The FCC can revoke or modify a licensees' privileges at any time for any reason, including revoking a repeater trustee or owner's ability to place their repeater under automatic control.

Likewise, as a repeater trustee/owner can ban/limit any user he/she wishes for any reason, and the FCC can actually revoke the operating privileges of the banned user from using that repeater input/output frequency. This has happened before.

While third party communications are allowable on repeaters provided a control operator is present at the control point, some repeater owners may not allow this.

I know of one local ARES net that prohibits "third party announcements" on their net because several years ago, a local public service organization actually had the county commission chairman make an public service announcement soliciting volunteer support for a major road race. As absurd as it sounds, this ARES group has since prohibited "third party announcements" on their net.

That is their right to do so.

 

[KG7UOH]

@MTS2000des Thanks for the detailed response, this is very helpful.

 

[kg4ciu]

Rapid charger and mts2000 are correct. Repeaters are not always under automatic control they have control operators alot of the times. Most of the time im operting on the wc4rav repeater a control operator is present with a finger on the repeate switch