OpenSky Is this the beginning of the end?

[Don_Burke]

"The freedom of speech is meaningless unless it means the freedom of the person who thinks differently. We may not agree with everything we hear, but we do ourselves an injustice if we fail to hear the dissenting voices"

I am so glad I have the freedom to call an idiot what he is.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

 

[FrequenC]

I commend you on exercising your rights

Please delete

 

[FrequenC]

I commend you on exercising your rights

Delete

 

[Don_Burke]

Please delete

Would that be the censorship you are talking about?

 

[phoenicks]

Just a dumb question, But why did'nt you just return it to where you bought it new for a full refund, instead of selling it on Ebay?. Guess I can't hijack this thread anymore than it already is?

 

[FrequenC]

Cost prohibitive

Just a dumb question, But why did'nt you just return it to where you bought it new for a full refund, instead of selling it on Ebay?. Guess I can't hijack this thread anymore than it already is?

Store pollicy - 20% restocking fee because unit is not defective. Would equate to less than EBay price

 

[FrequenC]

I come in Peace

I am so glad I have the freedom to call an idiot what he is.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

Would that be the censorship you are talking about?

Mr. Burke and others on these forums,

I hope to use this reply to clarify the true intention of my original post.

I am truly saddened and disappointed that I cannot monitor my local police and fire department because they are on the OpenSky system.

I admit that I did not research the OpenSky topic as I should have before posting the initial thread.

I repeat now as I did early on in this thread that "I do not believe it is a God given right to monitor police or public safety frequencies"

I am not the only one in Oakland County Michigan that is distraught over the situation as demonstrated by the number of posts on the many forums of RR.

Perhaps their is a convincing argument that the sole purpose of the switch to OpenSky was to protect members of law enforcement, I may have missed something.

I wonder if those on this forum that are ProSky advocates live in Oakland County and or if they would share the same enthusiasm for the system if they found themselves unable to listen to their local frequencies.

If I am misdirected in my belief that our government doesn't have a thing to do with this then I will admit to it. Perhaps those who are better versed on this topic could cite resources that will confirm that my take on this is unfounded.

Since writing this post I have done a great deal of research including researching the recent problems with the OpenSky system. I have reason to believe that there were other motives for the transition.

Our tax dollars funded this system and no that does not mean "I should be able monitor the system"

The only thing that I will not concede to is that big government is our friend. Unlike some I do not believe that government’s intentions are as pure as the driven snow and that they have only the best interest of the people they serve in mind.

In closing "I know this is not a political forum" I have been reminded of this frequently, however this is only one of many posts throughout these forums that reference politics.

In closing I was thrilled to be a part of the RR forum and I was looking forward to providing a feed as my expression of thanks for this forum. When I first joined I found the majority of its members very helpful and knowledgeable. I guess when you bring politics intentionally or unintentionally into the mix everything changes.

My apologies to all
FrequenC

 

[newsphotog]

Perhaps their is a convincing argument that the sole purpose of the switch to OpenSky was to protect members of law enforcement, I may have missed something.

That's obviously a selling point to agencies.

I wonder if those on this forum that are ProSky advocates live in Oakland County and or if they would share the same enthusiasm for the system if they found themselves unable to listen to their local frequencies.

That's quite false and presumptuous of you to say that someone that isn't as dramatic as you are "advocates of OpenSky." I have several agencies in my area that are unmonitorable on ProVoice. Nothing I do or say will make them go to regular P-25 or analog. I deal with it. I adapt and move on.

If I am misdirected in my belief that our government doesn't have a thing to do with this then I will admit to it. Perhaps those who are better versed on this topic could cite resources that will confirm that my take on this is unfounded.

What?

Since writing this post I have done a great deal of research including researching the recent problems with the OpenSky system. I have reason to believe that there were other motives for the transition.

And what theories do you have? Under-the-table transactions? Bribery? Secrecy? A plot to sterilize the entire American population? You say you've done your homework on OpenSky, but your findings would have revealed that there are relatively few OpenSky systems, and most of them were installed in the early days of OpenSky. M/A-Com had promised agencies better coverage, interoperability, reliability, etc. but it just had bugs. It may look good on paper but once you get the towers up and radios in people's hands, it can get real buggy real fast. On paper, *any* system looks perfect. To suggest that the government agencies invested in OpenSky with previous knowledge of implementation problems but had "other motives for the transition" is one of the most ridiculous things I have read in your posts thus far.

Our tax dollars funded this system and no that does not mean "I should be able monitor the system"

Good.

The only thing that I will not concede to is that big government is our friend. Unlike some I do not believe that government’s intentions are as pure as the driven snow and that they have only the best interest of the people they serve in mind.

Doesn't the government serve "We The People?" So what you're saying is that they have "only the best interest" of the American citizens.

 

[KB8QDM]

Perhaps some of this might be better addressed in the Michigan forum. If the PTB so decide, please feel free to split/move.

I am truly saddened and disappointed that I cannot monitor my local police and fire department because they are on the OpenSky system.

I think I already mentioned this to you, but you can still monitor your local police and fire departments, for right now. For background, I spent 11 years as a firefighter in your town, and have worked for your private EMS providers for 19 years. When/if the White Lake FD switches to OpenSky, they are going to have to maintain a conventional, non-trunked system as a means of alerting their on-call firefighters. There isn't a pager currently made that will affiliate with or monitor any trunked radio system. Most likely, if they do go OpenSky, the OS talkgroup will be patched to the alerting frequency. This same fact holds true for any of the neighboring fire departments as well.

The police department most likely will switch to OpenSky at some point. When that happens, you-and everyone else-will be out of luck.

I am not the only one in Oakland County Michigan that is distraught over the situation as demonstrated by the number of posts on the many forums of RR.

Correct, but for many differing reasons. My issue with the OpenSky system is not that I can't monitor it. In fact, I hardly listen to my scanners outside of my vehicle, and even more rarely at home. For much the same reason that I don't often exercise my privileges as an amateur radio operator. I get paid to talk on radios and monitor scanners for a living, it just isn't always fun doing it as a hobby. To say nothing for the fact that I moved out of White Lake and Oakland County three years ago, though I still work here.

Perhaps their is a convincing argument that the sole purpose of the switch to OpenSky was to protect members of law enforcement, I may have missed something.

Protect? No. Provide a common means of communications? Absolutely. I've experienced most of the major incidents that spawned the discussion about a single, common radio system for this county. Incidents like the Wixom Ford plant and Royal Oak post office shootings; incidents where response was hampered because police, fire and EMS agencies had no common way of communicating with each other.

Was M/A Com OpenSky the best choice? I definitely think not, but more on that.

Since writing this post I have done a great deal of research including researching the recent problems with the OpenSky system. I have reason to believe that there were other motives for the transition.

Our tax dollars funded this system and no that does not mean "I should be able monitor the system"

My biggest issue with OpenSky isn't that it can't be monitored by a scanner. My issue is the amount of time and money that have been wasted on this system. It's now at least five years behind schedule, and I've long since lost track of how many millions of dollars over budget it is. To an equal extent, I have problems with the quality of the system. Bonked calls, dead spots, etc. Just about every user I've talked to hates this system. Coverage is bad, especially in buildings, static, motorboating (or going digital), etc. One of these days, the problems with this system are going to get a cop or firefighter killed because his $3200 radio couldn't work.

Also, there were definitely other forces at play here. Why didn't Oakland County join the MPSCS? Because that would mean LBP (the county executive) would have to surrender some of his power to the state. If the MPSCS would have been OpenSky, Oakland county would have gotten a Motorola system (and the state system would be no where near complete). Nope, this system exists purely so the Oakland county leadership can thumb it's nose at Lansing (edit: just my opinion, but any long-time resident of Oakland county knows of the power struggle between the county and state governments).

Keep that scanner, there's still going to be plenty of conventional stuff to listen to, and every county around you uses the MPSCS. From White Lake, with a decent outside antenna, you should be able to pick up Genesee and Livingston counties with no problem at all.

 

[acepilot340]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...I don't think its the beginning of the end because as long as theres money to be made by whoever owns the patents/rights to the OpenSky techniques to sell it to scanner manufactures wouldn't they let them buy the technology to be used in scanners? As far as I see it, it's a win-win to sell the technology.

Also, scanners are always behind the 8 ball, even the digital scanners as I see do not receive as well as they should. I monitor the Illinois State Police and it barely comes in at times.

 

[SkipSanders]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...I don't think its the beginning of the end because as long as theres money to be made by whoever owns the patents/rights to the OpenSky techniques to sell it to scanner manufactures wouldn't they let them buy the technology to be used in scanners? As far as I see it, it's a win-win to sell the technology.

The ONLY selling point for 'Open Sky' is that it can't be monitored. If they give that up by licensing it to scanner manufacturers, they'd be better off to just make APCO 25 gear instead, which is far more marketable.

Yes, they could sell the rights to scanner makers... and thus end the ability to sell the radios. Not going to happen.

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

P25 ip?

OpenSky is falling. Harris is only working on such systems where required by contract. They are not promoting them as actively as their "real" P25 offerings. In fact, their current marketing focus seems to be on backend networking, such as their P25IP ("P25 to the Power of IP") line.

Is this a scannable type of system or Not?

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

The ONLY selling point for 'Open Sky' is that it can't be monitored. If they give that up by licensing it to scanner manufacturers, they'd be better off to just make APCO 25 gear instead, which is far more marketable.

Yes, they could sell the rights to scanner makers... and thus end the ability to sell the radios. Not going to happen.

If that is the case; then how does P25 sell?

 

[PVPD730]

Is this a scannable type of system or Not?

If you're asking about P25ip, yes, I believe that one is scannable, as long as Phase 1 is being used. OpenSky, on the other hand, is not scannable.

 

[N_Jay]

The ONLY selling point for 'Open Sky' is that it can't be monitored.

Hardly.

If they give that up by licensing it to scanner manufacturers, they'd be better off to just make APCO 25 gear instead, which is far more marketable.

They do.

Yes, they could sell the rights to scanner makers... and thus end the ability to sell the radios.

Except the market for the scanners would never support the development, and they would not work well due to the cellular nature of the system.

In other words; I doubt any manufacturer has bothered asking (with any serious intent to build/sell one).

Not going to happen.

Very true!

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

If you're asking about P25ip, yes, I believe that one is scannable, as long as Phase 1 is being used. OpenSky, on the other hand, is not scannable.

Phase 1 Is P25IP?

So since P25 is an Oepn Standard will they make a Phase 2 P25 TDMA(?) Radio Scanner?

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

Okay, so OpenSky is Not monitorable. Why? Besides the fact that No scanner maker makes a scanenr that can scan it? Well what about TETRA or iDEN. I already know that VSLEP is NOT monitorablle.

 

[Josh]

No, no scanner for Open Sky, TETRA, iDEN or Passport.

VSELP is monitorable, just get a Moto VSELP radio and it'll decode it.

 

[nsrailfan6130]

"VSELP is monitorable, just get a Moto VSELP radio"

AFAIK, The general public will not be able to acquire a VSELP radio.

 

[Josh]

Since when? I think the real question is who uses VSELP...

Go to eBay, find an Astro Saber or Astro Spectra with old firmware and early DSP... typically with a flashcode beginning with an even number and having "Conventional Operation" as a minimum flash code (not astro ready/analog only- this would imply IMBE capability).

I have an Astro Spectra VOCON and an Astro Saber, both do VSELP, or in the first case make an Astro Spectra VSELP.