P25 Radio with Multiple Systems

[ElroyJetson]

You need either a system key OR a way around the need for a system key. It is possible to hack the CPS to ignore the absence of a system key file.

However, I neither have the instructions on how to do that nor would I publish them if I did.

Today's environment is way more paranoid than back in the days where the Astro Saber and the newfangled XTS3000 ruled supreme, when I developed both the Astro RSS out of band hack and the hidden talkgroups trick. Back then we didn't have a DHS and fears of electronic terrorism.

I just programmed one of my own radios to monitor a P25 trunked system yesterday. I did it by programming up each system channel as CONVENTIONAL digital channels, in a receive only personality, and programmed to digital carrier squelch and scan on all system channels.

Since this system is a very low traffic system, this method of programming is very nearly as good as if the radio were programmed in trunking mode for that system.

I give you that information as a suggestion. Depending on how busy the system is that you intend to monitor, monitoring it this way with conventional digital channels in scan may be preferrable because you can easily do it without even so much as denting any laws.

In any event, any Motorola trunked radio will support, at a very minimum, at least 16 separate trunked systems. In some cases, several times that. Odds are that you won't run out of capacity unless you really DO want to add in the road and bridge crews and dogcatcher's talkgroups, too.

 

[AlabamaWeather]

.....................

 

[riveter]

This OP is talking about using a radio as a scanner, without being an actual system user. Please, please don't usher someone down the path of programming something they shouldn't. If you're not authorized to use a system you shouldn't be creating a hardware key for it, because the whole point of that is programming a radio to actually USE the system. Just no-affiliate that puppy and don't mess with the possibility of mucking up the system or a user by transmitting when you shouldn't or using an RID you shouldn't, etc.

I'm really not being legalistic OR paranoid-you'll-break-the-whole-thing minded either. I just caution against that because of the specific things locked out by not having a system key, and the reasons they're locked out. If someone's not tx-auth and wants to scan a system, I encourage it by means of no-affiliate scan, but strongly discourage talking about keys.

 

[AlabamaWeather]

This OP is talking about using a radio as a scanner, without being an actual system user. Please, please don't usher someone down the path of programming something they shouldn't. If you're not authorized to use a system you shouldn't be creating a hardware key for it, because the whole point of that is programming a radio to actually USE the system. Just no-affiliate that puppy and don't mess with the possibility of mucking up the system or a user by transmitting when you shouldn't or using an RID you shouldn't, etc.

I'm really not being legalistic OR paranoid-you'll-break-the-whole-thing minded either. I just caution against that because of the specific things locked out by not having a system key, and the reasons they're locked out. If someone's not tx-auth and wants to scan a system, I encourage it by means of no-affiliate scan, but strongly discourage talking about keys.

I assumed to use non-affiliation scanning still required a system key but maybe not? I will be using non affiliation to RX only anyways so it may not matter.

 

[riveter]

It shouldn't, it doesn't on the APX. I've done that before for some systems I needed to monitor before I was permitted access.

 

[ElroyJetson]

You can not program trunking data into a Motorola radio without a system key, not even for RX only. The only alternative is to use a hacked CPS that doesn't need the key, and that's theoretical and I shall not make any reference to it again just in case it MIGHT actually exist.


I suggest you listen to what you're reading. There are some real hardcore veterans in this topic, even some people who have been or currently are system adminstrators in charge of Moto trunked systems,
and there are people who've been learning about trunked systems by experimentation since the days of the first PC programmable Motorola trunked radio, the STX. (STX 821 with GPS 1.1 controller and DES! Woohoo! Who remembers that? )

Listen to us. We pioneered the dark arts. We learned. Some people made mistakes, and accidentally transmitted into systems we had no business transmitting into. Some of us avoided getting into trouble for it, some of us got our peepees slapped, and a few idiots got harsher but well deserved treatment for intentionally interfering. In my case I have always been cautious and have never, to the very best of my knowledge, caused any radio in my posession to so much as affiliate, but I am sure that I had a close call or two.

We explored the MANY ways in which you can intentionally screw up the programming to keep a Moto radio from transmitting into the system while retaining its ability to hear what we wanted to hear.

I will tell you that the path you seem intent on following is absolutely covered with landmines, more now than ever before. 15 years ago, the local sheriff's department might just send an investigator over to visit you and ask you nicely to stop transmitting into their system and have a nice day. Today, it's likely to be a federal issue EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I counsel you to buy a scanner. Because you can not afford to follow the learning curve that is needed in order to make your Moto radio a safe and "invisible" scanning radio. There's too much to learn and you will NOT get it right the first time.

Let's face it: Motorola knows about the listeners. And they know that most of us are in it for the joy of learning something technical. Not to cause trouble, far from it, but just to learn and explore without doing any harm. As long as we're not interfering or causing trouble to anyone or any system operator, they're content to leave us alone and NOT have to spend money hauling anybody into the court system. But a newbie like yourself is a different story. They're more aggressive about rogue radios accessing their systems than ever before. You don't want to be the new guy coming to their attention.

Now someone is going to pipe up and make disparaging comments about "motorola police" or some other such tripe, and that's the exact sort of person who will eventually be answering questions in an interrogation room because he's not smart enough to clam up except to say "I want my lawyer.".

 

[gatekeep]

TBH; I agree with others....don't do this, yes the radio is more durable, yes the radio will receive better (because its purpose built), but you should not be programming a end-user subscriber portable on a system.

However, if you insist on doing it anyway; MOONBOOT's suggested method of Hidden TG No-Affiliate scan is the recommended approach. Assuming this is an 700/800mhz system, since there is no real public channels in that segment, use the radio alignment or tuning software to zero out the Tx Power settings (at least on a Motorola radio this is possible) to ensure very little to no power escapes the radio antenna at any time. (It would be best to validate this with at minimum a frequency counter or wattmeter attached inline to ensure the radio does not attempt to transmit on frequencies on which you don't belong during programming.)

 

[davidzimmerman]

this does work if you know what your doing if NOT big trouble

 

[ri1470]

I understand that this is an old post and topic, but is the demo codeplug still available?

 

[RKG]

. . . (STX 821 with GPS 1.1 controller and DES! Woohoo! Who remembers that? ) . . . .

Me. Staring at three STXs, as we "speak."

 

[N4KVE]

Me. Staring at three STXs, as we "speak."

I still have 2 STX's. A GPS 1.1 with DES-XL, & a GPL 1.0. Both radios are still mint. Great paperweights now, but in their day, they rocked.

 

[slyons01]

Problem with method is you need a system key to create the trunking system. I know there is software in the wild that will create one, but were treading on legal issues. There is another way that does not need a system key which I use. Check Youtube for directions, I have to find a link. I did mine a long time ago and have never needed to change anything. It works very well and beats the hell out of any scanner especially if you live in a severe simulcast distortion area. Just be very careful and follow directions to the tee on whatever method you use. I have actually disabled the PTT button and no speaker mics are allowed!

Where may I find the sample Codeplug?