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Radio recommendation.....

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4Runner24

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Joined
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Messages
5
Location
Victoria, BC
Hello,
I am interested in getting a 2 way radio but know almost nothing about them.
I will be using it for when I go into the backcountry in case I get stuck.

I have narrowed it down to a handful of radios and was hoping for some recommendations as to which one would be the best buy. I could not find much online about these.

The criteria was.....
10 watts
GPS capable
decent battery
Fairly cheap

TYT MD-398

TYT TH-UV8200

Radtel RT-470

KSUN UV98D

Ailunce HD1


Are any of these worth having?
Any advice or info is greatly appreciated.
 

4Runner24

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Victoria, BC
I wouldn't include that in a spec if it involves life/safety. YMMV.

Good point.
All the radios I mentioned all have a low price. This is so I don't dump a ton of money into a radio, until I see how deep into this I want to get.
Depends how fun/interesting I end up finding the hobby.
I'm as new and clueless as it gets concerning the world of radio.
 

alcahuete

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Premium Subscriber
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Messages
2,725
Location
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"In case you get stuck." Who is going to help you? The radio is completely useless unless there is somebody at the other end to help. Are you planning on setting up a base station radio with another family member at the other end? Or something else?
 

mmckenna

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Messages
25,820
Location
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Hello,
I am interested in getting a 2 way radio but know almost nothing about them.

First, thanks for asking. I see too many people that just buy a radio off amazon and think that's the end of the process.

Before you buy ANY radio, you need to figure out what the licensing requirements are in Canada. Here in the USA, you cannot just buy any random radio and start using it wherever you want. Licensing is required, and I'm pretty sure it is in Canada also. #1 step should be to get licensed.
Do not assume that you can just use whatever you want in an "emergency". It doesn't work that way and usually leads to failure.

Don't assume that amateur radio will work anywhere in the back country. Amateur radio can be a good solution, but cheap radios aren't going to do the trick, and with amateur radio there is zero requirement that anyone be on the radio to listen to your cries for help.

I will be using it for when I go into the backcountry in case I get stuck.

Not the right tool for the job.
Don't assume that you can just buy a radio and call for help and someone will answer.

The right tool for the job is one (or more) of these:
- Satellite phone. yeah, expensive, but about the only guarantee that you'll be able to have a two way conversation with someone who will answer.
- Garmin InReach. These are the devices that are exactly intended for your sort of use case. I have legal access to a lot of radios/frequencies, and I sitll carry a Garmin InReach mini with me any time I may be out of cell phone coverage. Cheap, easy to use, and will get you help when you need it.
- Spot device. Like the Garmin InReach.



I have narrowed it down to a handful of radios and was hoping for some recommendations as to which one would be the best buy. I could not find much online about these.

The criteria was.....
10 watts
GPS capable
decent battery
Fairly cheap

Here's what I can offer you:
- 10 watts. Often those new to radio will assume that more wattage is key to establishing communications. It isn't. 10 watts will just drain your battery faster than a lower wattage radio. If you are in a location with good radio coverage (remember the license…) a 5 watt radio may work just as well. Don't narrow your choice of radios just based on wattage. Also, for most of these Cheap Chinese Radios, there is zero truth to their claims.

- GPS capable. Not sure what you are looking for here. A GPS in a radio can provide two things. Having a radio that will transmit your GPS location is only useful if there is someone in range, on the same frequency, and listening with a compatible radio to receive the GPS data. It's not standardized. Only other useful feature is radios that will display your GPS location. But chances are you already have a cell phone with a GPS in it that will give you a mark on a map. Just download maps that don't require a data connection to work and you already have a better tool.

- Decent battery can mean a number of things. Depends on how and how much you plan on using the radio. If your plan is to buy a radio and toss it in a bag and only pull it out in an emergency, then don't rely on rechargeable batteries as it will likely be dead when you need it. Get a radio that can use alkaline batteries that you can store separate from the radio and change out frequently.

- "Fairly cheap". Well, "cheap" depends on your budget. If you want cheap, as in price and quality, the low end Chinese radios you listed will fill the bill. If you want to rely on these radios in an emergency, then you need to rethink your budget. If safety is your concern, limiting that by price is going to lead to disappointment. Buying a cheap Chinese radio off Amazon isn't the way to do this. You need to figure out what your priorities are.


Are any of these worth having?
Any advice or info is greatly appreciated.

Not for emergencies. Not without a proper license. Not without a properly planned out communications system. I see too many in the "overlanding" hobby that will spend a lot of money on gear and then have zero understanding of what it does. I see a lot of them with radios, but usually they are a very poor quality radio, poorly installed, and the antenna (the most important part of the radio) is an afterthought that is poorly installed. These overlanders put a lot of trust in a tool that the rarely know how to properly install, test and use.

My advice: Get a Garmin InReach mini. Yeah, it's a more expensive up front cost. I pay $11USD a month for the service. It's the only tool in the low cost range that will get you help in an emergency. It doesn't require you getting a license, and it's actually a tool you can use in the back country with reasonable expectations of getting help in an emergency.
One of the really nice benefits to the InReach is I can periodically send "I'm OK" type messages to anyone with a cell phone or e-mail address. That lets me know the device is working, and lets my wife keep track of me when I'm working remotely.


Avoid the cheap radio path unless you are going to spend the money to do it right, get your license, practice, practice some more, have someone standing by with another radio, and then still have a backup device like a satellite phone or InReach/Spot type device. If the lives, health and safety of your friends, family and self are a concern, then spend the money to do it right. Cheap radios only give the illusion of safety, they rarely provide it.
 

4Runner24

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Victoria, BC
First, thanks for asking. I see too many people that just buy a radio off amazon and think that's the end of the process.

Before you buy ANY radio, you need to figure out what the licensing requirements are in Canada. Here in the USA, you cannot just buy any random radio and start using it wherever you want. Licensing is required, and I'm pretty sure it is in Canada also. #1 step should be to get licensed.
Do not assume that you can just use whatever you want in an "emergency". It doesn't work that way and usually leads to failure.

Don't assume that amateur radio will work anywhere in the back country. Amateur radio can be a good solution, but cheap radios aren't going to do the trick, and with amateur radio there is zero requirement that anyone be on the radio to listen to your cries for help.



Not the right tool for the job.
Don't assume that you can just buy a radio and call for help and someone will answer.

The right tool for the job is one (or more) of these:
- Satellite phone. yeah, expensive, but about the only guarantee that you'll be able to have a two way conversation with someone who will answer.
- Garmin InReach. These are the devices that are exactly intended for your sort of use case. I have legal access to a lot of radios/frequencies, and I sitll carry a Garmin InReach mini with me any time I may be out of cell phone coverage. Cheap, easy to use, and will get you help when you need it.
- Spot device. Like the Garmin InReach.





Here's what I can offer you:
- 10 watts. Often those new to radio will assume that more wattage is key to establishing communications. It isn't. 10 watts will just drain your battery faster than a lower wattage radio. If you are in a location with good radio coverage (remember the license…) a 5 watt radio may work just as well. Don't narrow your choice of radios just based on wattage. Also, for most of these Cheap Chinese Radios, there is zero truth to their claims.

- GPS capable. Not sure what you are looking for here. A GPS in a radio can provide two things. Having a radio that will transmit your GPS location is only useful if there is someone in range, on the same frequency, and listening with a compatible radio to receive the GPS data. It's not standardized. Only other useful feature is radios that will display your GPS location. But chances are you already have a cell phone with a GPS in it that will give you a mark on a map. Just download maps that don't require a data connection to work and you already have a better tool.

- Decent battery can mean a number of things. Depends on how and how much you plan on using the radio. If your plan is to buy a radio and toss it in a bag and only pull it out in an emergency, then don't rely on rechargeable batteries as it will likely be dead when you need it. Get a radio that can use alkaline batteries that you can store separate from the radio and change out frequently.

- "Fairly cheap". Well, "cheap" depends on your budget. If you want cheap, as in price and quality, the low end Chinese radios you listed will fill the bill. If you want to rely on these radios in an emergency, then you need to rethink your budget. If safety is your concern, limiting that by price is going to lead to disappointment. Buying a cheap Chinese radio off Amazon isn't the way to do this. You need to figure out what your priorities are.




Not for emergencies. Not without a proper license. Not without a properly planned out communications system. I see too many in the "overlanding" hobby that will spend a lot of money on gear and then have zero understanding of what it does. I see a lot of them with radios, but usually they are a very poor quality radio, poorly installed, and the antenna (the most important part of the radio) is an afterthought that is poorly installed. These overlanders put a lot of trust in a tool that the rarely know how to properly install, test and use.

My advice: Get a Garmin InReach mini. Yeah, it's a more expensive up front cost. I pay $11USD a month for the service. It's the only tool in the low cost range that will get you help in an emergency. It doesn't require you getting a license, and it's actually a tool you can use in the back country with reasonable expectations of getting help in an emergency.
One of the really nice benefits to the InReach is I can periodically send "I'm OK" type messages to anyone with a cell phone or e-mail address. That lets me know the device is working, and lets my wife keep track of me when I'm working remotely.


Avoid the cheap radio path unless you are going to spend the money to do it right, get your license, practice, practice some more, have someone standing by with another radio, and then still have a backup device like a satellite phone or InReach/Spot type device. If the lives, health and safety of your friends, family and self are a concern, then spend the money to do it right. Cheap radios only give the illusion of safety, they rarely provide it.
Thanks for all the information.
I am getting an In Reach Mini, but wanted to explore the radio hobby also.

I figured a cheap radio (at first) to see if the hobby interests me enough to invest in some better quality equipment and get right into it.


I feel dumb admitting this, but I didn't think my phone's GPS worked without cel service. So thanks for that. I'll have to go out and play around with some APPs and see. Still need the In Reach Mini though.

I thought more watts equals further signal distance, compared to less watts in the same conditions.
Is that not the case?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
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Messages
25,820
Location
United States
Thanks for all the information.
I am getting an In Reach Mini, but wanted to explore the radio hobby also.

OK, good deal. The Garmin InReach or a Spot device really are amazing tools for anyone who gets off paved road and out of the reach of cell networks. Like I said, I work in some remote areas where cell phones don't work and radios can be iffy. I pack an InReach Mini in my pack. The app that goes on your smart phone will talk to it over bluetooth and give you a lot of functionality from your phone, however, the phone is not required to make it work. I've had mine about 2 years and I'm really happy with it. Never needed it in an emergency, but it's been super handy for checking in when I'm overnight at some remote radio site.

I figured a cheap radio (at first) to see if the hobby interests me enough to invest in some better quality equipment and get right into it.

I assume you are talking about amateur radio?
A basic radio is a good place to start, but since you can't transmit without a license, I'd recommend working on your amateur radio license first. There's a lot you will learn in the process of studying for your test that will help you make a much better decision about radios. Buying the radio first may result in disappointment if you get the wrong one.

I'd also recommend looking at dedicated amateur radios. A lot of the Chinese "do everything" radios kind of suck, and are not good choices for new amateurs. If you can, look at a dedicated amateur radio from Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood. Those are big names in amateur radio and you'll get a radio designed for your needs. Some of the ones you were looking at will be overwhelming and problematic for a new users. That sometimes has the effect of alienating new amateurs. Start slow, work your way into the hobby. Don't be in too much of a hurry to buy the radio.

I feel dumb admitting this, but I didn't think my phone's GPS worked without cel service. So thanks for that. I'll have to go out and play around with some APPs and see. Still need the In Reach Mini though.

The GPS will work without cellular service.
Where users sometimes run into trouble is relying on services like Google Maps that need the internet connection to download the maps. There are applications that will let you download detailed maps or topographical charts for the areas you expect to be. Those will work with your cell phone even when it's out of range of the cellular network. not all apps will do that, so make sure you get one that does.

The Garmin really is a good tool. I'm glad to see you are going in that direction. The beauty of them is that there will be a professional at the far end. They will get your exact GPS location and can dispatch off that. They can communicate back to you to gather more info.
And the non-emergency text messages and precanned messages are super handy for checking in with others. You can even send breadcrumb trails out from the device to a webpage that others can look at. Gets expensive for those features, but it's an option.

I thought more watts equals further signal distance, compared to less watts in the same conditions.
Is that not the case?

It does.
However, 10 watts will not get you twice as far as 5 watts. You need to quadruple the power to double range.
But, range usually isn't limited by the RF power. It's usually topology that gets in the way. No amount of RF power will blast your signal through a mountain, or out of a deep canyon.
A lot of amateur radio operators use repeaters to increase their range. If there are amateur radio repeaters within your area, it only takes a bit of RF power to reach them. The repeater will do the rest.
If you are talking just radio to radio without the repeaters, more power usually isn't necessary.

And one of the things you'll discover, the antenna is the most important part of your radio setup. The antenna will have greater impact on range than increasing the transmitter power will.
 

4Runner24

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Victoria, BC
OK, good deal. The Garmin InReach or a Spot device really are amazing tools for anyone who gets off paved road and out of the reach of cell networks. Like I said, I work in some remote areas where cell phones don't work and radios can be iffy. I pack an InReach Mini in my pack. The app that goes on your smart phone will talk to it over bluetooth and give you a lot of functionality from your phone, however, the phone is not required to make it work. I've had mine about 2 years and I'm really happy with it. Never needed it in an emergency, but it's been super handy for checking in when I'm overnight at some remote radio site.



I assume you are talking about amateur radio?
A basic radio is a good place to start, but since you can't transmit without a license, I'd recommend working on your amateur radio license first. There's a lot you will learn in the process of studying for your test that will help you make a much better decision about radios. Buying the radio first may result in disappointment if you get the wrong one.

I'd also recommend looking at dedicated amateur radios. A lot of the Chinese "do everything" radios kind of suck, and are not good choices for new amateurs. If you can, look at a dedicated amateur radio from Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood. Those are big names in amateur radio and you'll get a radio designed for your needs. Some of the ones you were looking at will be overwhelming and problematic for a new users. That sometimes has the effect of alienating new amateurs. Start slow, work your way into the hobby. Don't be in too much of a hurry to buy the radio.



The GPS will work without cellular service.
Where users sometimes run into trouble is relying on services like Google Maps that need the internet connection to download the maps. There are applications that will let you download detailed maps or topographical charts for the areas you expect to be. Those will work with your cell phone even when it's out of range of the cellular network. not all apps will do that, so make sure you get one that does.

The Garmin really is a good tool. I'm glad to see you are going in that direction. The beauty of them is that there will be a professional at the far end. They will get your exact GPS location and can dispatch off that. They can communicate back to you to gather more info.
And the non-emergency text messages and precanned messages are super handy for checking in with others. You can even send breadcrumb trails out from the device to a webpage that others can look at. Gets expensive for those features, but it's an option.



It does.
However, 10 watts will not get you twice as far as 5 watts. You need to quadruple the power to double range.
But, range usually isn't limited by the RF power. It's usually topology that gets in the way. No amount of RF power will blast your signal through a mountain, or out of a deep canyon.
A lot of amateur radio operators use repeaters to increase their range. If there are amateur radio repeaters within your area, it only takes a bit of RF power to reach them. The repeater will do the rest.
If you are talking just radio to radio without the repeaters, more power usually isn't necessary.

And one of the things you'll discover, the antenna is the most important part of your radio setup. The antenna will have greater impact on range than increasing the transmitter power will.

I can see there's a lot to learn.
I'll get started on the license first.

Thanks for the info and your time.
 

mmckenna

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Joined
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Messages
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I can see there's a lot to learn.
I'll get started on the license first.

Thanks for the info and your time.

Happy to help and feel free to hit me up if you have any more questions. You'll get a lot of assistance from people on this site.

You might want to check in with a local ham radio club and let them know you are interested in getting your license. They should be willing to help you through the process, and provide a lot of helpful info you'll need down the road. These guys might be a good place to start:
 

rescuecomm

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
1,525
Location
Travelers Rest, SC
This thread is a little old, but Canada doesn't do GMRS repeaters. If you are four wheeling solo, the sat comm units are the way to go. Amateur radio is an option if any repeaters cover the area. You probably already know this, but having self recovery equipment on your vehicle is preferred. The only commercial towing company around here that went in the backcountry closed many years ago. When he was told he had to sell Dodge cars at his Jeep dealership, he flipped the middle finger and closed.
 

turdish

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Joined
Jul 13, 2023
Messages
8
RT-470 is a solid, wideband HT. High power 8.5 -9 W in 430 mhz range, 12 ish W in the 140mhz range. Only tested harmonics in Med and Low power (I have no need for High power TX), but it was clean-ish (1-2db out of spec).
 

wtp

Member
Joined
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Messages
6,730
Location
Port Charlotte FL
the non-radio way is...go with a group.
the wife used to go 4wheeling what a large crowd and they used FRS, only for that would i recommend FRS radios anyway.
 

pandel

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
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Messages
134
RT-470 is a solid, wideband HT. High power 8.5 -9 W in 430 mhz range, 12 ish W in the 140mhz range. Only tested harmonics in Med and Low power (I have no need for High power TX), but it was clean-ish (1-2db out of spec).
A quad band radio with 2 additional Rx bands, PLUS 10 watt output power! ("clean-ish only 1-2db out of spec"). All for the amazing low, low, price of $50. Hurry while supplies last!
 

turdish

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2023
Messages
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A quad band radio with 2 additional Rx bands, PLUS 10 watt output power! ("clean-ish only 1-2db out of spec"). All for the amazing low, low, price of $50. Hurry while supplies last!
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

Lols. For the record, am not affiliated with Radtel or any other radio manufacturer or distributor. Simply stating it is a better option than a Bufwong or Tiddyradio...
 
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