Rockwell Collins nationwide disaster HF radio

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DisasterGuy

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In modern practice with ALE it really is flip a switch and go. Also, each and every state has a FEMA provided Harris or Rockwell 1kw FNARS HF radio. I am pretty sure they have all been upgraded to Rockwell now.

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mmckenna

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I'd much rather use hams as HF operators in any case as they're most likely going to have a better grasp of operating under a variety of HF peculiarities, using a commercially-based service or not. No matter what, HF just isn't generally a "flip the switch and go" type of service like VHF, UHF or 800 MHz.

And how do you require a volunteer to be in a hazardous location on a 24+ hour shift. My experience is that volunteers are good for a while, but then they start to burn out, complain, wander off, etc. Devotion to duty isn't something I've seen. I see devotion to the hobby, a desire to be involved, but not the hard core dedication in all situations, environments and conditions that is necessary.

I'm all for using amateur radio operators where appropriate, but the issue is being able to rely on them. Out here in California the big risk is an earthquake. When this happens most people are concerned about their own family and their own property, amateurs included.

The other issue, which I mentioned above, is that relying on a "one hit wonder" to show up to operate just that one radio that no one else is allowed to touch puts a lot of things at risk. Having a commercial radio that can be operated by any one on the team with minimal training is a better bang for the buck.

Both a commercial system and a amateur radio operators would be good options, but I'd hesitate to rely on amateurs 100%.
 

n2nov

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And how do you require a volunteer to be in a hazardous location on a 24+ hour shift. My experience is that volunteers are good for a while, but then they start to burn out, complain, wander off, etc. Devotion to duty isn't something I've seen. I see devotion to the hobby, a desire to be involved, but not the hard core dedication in all situations, environments and conditions that is necessary.

I'm all for using amateur radio operators where appropriate, but the issue is being able to rely on them. Out here in California the big risk is an earthquake. When this happens most people are concerned about their own family and their own property, amateurs included.

The other issue, which I mentioned above, is that relying on a "one hit wonder" to show up to operate just that one radio that no one else is allowed to touch puts a lot of things at risk. Having a commercial radio that can be operated by any one on the team with minimal training is a better bang for the buck.

Both a commercial system and a amateur radio operators would be good options, but I'd hesitate to rely on amateurs 100%.

I would point out that the hams in NYC for 9/11 performed for anywhere from 12 to 36 hours before being relieved. We had problems the first few days with credentialing changes by the various government agencies as well as transportation issues into the affected areas. Sometimes I had to schedule 2 hams together at one restricted site for over a 24 hour period because I knew that there would be egress issues. It was a good thing that one of those teams was a husband and wife from Long Island. Hams can perform for extended periods in uncertain circumstances if they are trained for it. The casual ham that shows up without the proper training tends to be the one that complains about the conditions.

As stated above, a properly trained amateur radio "communicator" can communicate on any piece of equipment and/or mode. Any agency or NGO who expects "expert" help without adequately training/drilling with them is only setting up the operation for failure to then only blame the amateur for being inferior to their expectations. How does that make sense? The solution is more drills, more interfacing and more information BEFORE the need arises.
 

902

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Actually, the government's involvement in all this can be best defined as, "A solution looking for a problem..."
We’ve got a lot of that going on these days. Unfortunately, with government involvement, it can become a mandate in one form or another, while the “free market” would pretty much fail to build momentum on such project... or maybe determine that it's the best thing in the world and is a "must have." Knowing now that we are not living in floating apartments and zipping around in Jetsons cars as was the vision during my childhood, I suspect that very little would change, left to voluntary implementation.

This could perhaps be a valuable service at the state EOC level rather than the county or local level, assuming that the state EOC doesn't already have access to SHARES or other Federal level ALE-type services (some do, some don't depending on how forward-looking they are).
Each EOC has the ability to participate in their respective states’ OPSECURE program. As a former county-level emergency manager, our state had ultimate responsibility for administering and licensing it (per 90.264 and other requirements). We would not have been able to participate in FNARS on our own, and our participation in SHARES was through a host federal agency and in supporting that agency.

The reality was that our emergency management agency was not afforded much credibility or funding and operated an 8 hr-a-day/ 5 day-a-week operation for primarily three reasons - 1) there was a 50% matching grant to do so, with the director's salary being matched; 2) staff were pressed into duty ferreting out grant funds to support esoteric projects, nifties, and materials for established responder organizations (all of which ceased and started to rust when sustainment monies dried up, as the recipients had no intention of maintaining most of the programs as going concerns); and 3) some staffers were given double or triple duties supporting other non-EM operations. I know other communities where they were afforded even less "cred" and the EM director was a public works guy who worked EM in between picking up trash and recycling.

The problem with a marketed service is that it’s no good if you’re the only one on it. It’s like playing walkie-talkie with only one radio. The big concern shouldn’t be “can it work?” If you throw enough money at something, it WILL technically “work.” The big concern is planning. Who? What? Where? When? How? Why? Like Ku band satellite services, if you have a terminal, and you’re in an affected area, prepare for a big chokedown and throttleback in QoS when all of the NGOs and non-military satellite fedworld clients start trucking in. How much would that be? I have never gotten a straight answer from providers for guaranteed throughput when the cavalcade of media and NGOs truck in and park their satellite trucks in every available parking space on Main Street. I’d venture it’s a trade secret, and I’d venture it’s substantial. Remember, Rockwell Collins is doing this for revenue. That means there is a potential chokedown point involved if having one of these becomes a de facto standard of service.

wow cool newfangled hf radios that uses this new ALE cutting edge tech LOL
Who said it’s MIL-STD-188-141A/B? As devil’s advocate, if I were a manufacturer like R/C, I’d make it proprietary so you could not use an Icom, Barrett, Codan, or Harris radio. Anyway, ALE might be a pushbutton technology, but it is not a “quick” technology. You can call someone – think of that as a “request to talk” and the radio will step through frequencies in the list sending a (pretty long) call. It might take over a minute to establish contact, if there is a path between Station A and Station B. In my experience, it works a lot more like a very slow Nextel Direct Connect in that you dial someone up and maybe they answer. I have never played with “all call” or various net call schemes. I suspect propagation would have to favor the majority of stations in the net and others would not receive the message (but I could be wrong).
 

prcguy

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I recently sat in on a demonstration of the UrgentLink system and can say it does work. This system appears to be a viable way to provide communications in a disaster situation. Some operator training is necessary but radios are pre-configured making it fairly easy to use. As with any HF endeavor, antennas are critical to success.
prcguy
 

TampaTyron

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Can you discuss the demo? Specifically, do you call another member of your group or a Rockwell dispatch operator? Thank you, TT.
 

KQ6XA

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ARINC UrgentLink uses ALE (Automatic Link Establishment) with some additional protocol expansions and other digital enhancements, such as regional HF relay stations, for very a effective HF disaster comm solution.

There is currently a ham radio ALE HF network. However, ARINC's turnkey services for HF comms, directly operated by local governmental disaster entities as an HF Land Mobile system is superior to anything that amateur radio volunteers could provide.

As local/regional government entities start to add ARINC UrgentLink or similar ALE HF equipment, they should insist in their service contracts that their HF systems include Federal interoperability (and State Interoperability where applicable).
 

prcguy

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See what Bonnie said below regarding the use of ALE for initiating the contact, however AIRINC and UrgentLink are two separate entities and do not handle the same traffic.

Due to licensing issues an UrgentLink subscriber will usually go through the dispatcher to connect to the destination, or for a direct subscriber to subscriber contact the dispatcher would have to oversee the conversation or at least be monitoring the frequency.
prcguy

Can you discuss the demo? Specifically, do you call another member of your group or a Rockwell dispatch operator? Thank you, TT.
 

Project4

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902
>Anyway, ALE might be a pushbutton technology, but it is not a “quick” technology. You can call someone – think of that as a “request to talk” and the radio will step through frequencies in the list sending a (pretty long) call. It might take over a minute to establish contact, if there is a path between Station A and Station B. In my experience, it works a lot more like a very slow Nextel Direct Connect in that you dial someone up and maybe they answer. I have never played with “all call” or various net call schemes. I suspect propagation would have to favor the majority of stations in the net and others would not receive the message (but I could be wrong).<

According to the article referenced by the O.P., Mr. Chapman from Rockwell Collins explained,
“[With ALE], the radios are constantly talking to each other to determine the optimal frequency to use the next time they place the call,”.

The described system does not need time to hunt for and set up a path connection. It evaluates path signal quality continuously prior to the operators Request to Send. Some hams have implemented parts of this concept in their DXCC superstations. Ham Radio Deluxe with DXSpider cluster software integration allow an operator to simply land his screen cursor on the callsign of a desired contact. With the click of the mouse, radio frequency, antenna selection and rotor azimuth are all controlled by the HRD software. Successful contact is extremely "quick". 902, is your "experience" with the Urgentlink system or less sophisticated ALE variants?

prcguy
Based on your observations, is there so much magic in Urgentlink that hams could not duplicate the functionality, reliability and quality of a "managed" HF communications network in amateur spectrum?
If not, then hams should not claim to provide that public service for "free".
 

902

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So, since you know this system, it depends not on in-band signaling, but on the Internet for its DX cluster-like emulation? Umm, how is that supposed to augment last-line communications when the Internet it relies on to work might not necessarily be there?

In direct response to your question, my experience is with ALE. Tell us about yours.

902
>Anyway, ALE might be a pushbutton technology, but it is not a “quick” technology. You can call someone – think of that as a “request to talk” and the radio will step through frequencies in the list sending a (pretty long) call. It might take over a minute to establish contact, if there is a path between Station A and Station B. In my experience, it works a lot more like a very slow Nextel Direct Connect in that you dial someone up and maybe they answer. I have never played with “all call” or various net call schemes. I suspect propagation would have to favor the majority of stations in the net and others would not receive the message (but I could be wrong).<

According to the article referenced by the O.P., Mr. Chapman from Rockwell Collins explained,
“[With ALE], the radios are constantly talking to each other to determine the optimal frequency to use the next time they place the call,”.

The described system does not need time to hunt for and set up a path connection. It evaluates path signal quality continuously prior to the operators Request to Send. Some hams have implemented parts of this concept in their DXCC superstations. Ham Radio Deluxe with DXSpider cluster software integration allow an operator to simply land his screen cursor on the callsign of a desired contact. With the click of the mouse, radio frequency, antenna selection and rotor azimuth are all controlled by the HRD software. Successful contact is extremely "quick". 902, is your "experience" with the Urgentlink system or less sophisticated ALE variants?

prcguy
Based on your observations, is there so much magic in Urgentlink that hams could not duplicate the functionality, reliability and quality of a "managed" HF communications network in amateur spectrum?
If not, then hams should not claim to provide that public service for "free".
 

prcguy

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The UrgentLink system uses frequencies that are seldom used if at all, which allows a number of commercial ALE channels to scan and work without interference. Amateur band loading and use is unpredictable and you can't always count on a programmed amateur ALE frequency to be clear at any given moment. I see this as one feather in UrgentLinks cap.

Then there is the ever present and paid UrgentLink operator who is there to connect you to just about anyone at any time via phone patch, or other radios in your system that may not be available direct due to distance or conditions or they can patch to other Govt radio systems, which amateur radio cannot legally provide.

How many of you have taken part in amateur radio disaster training? Everyone meets at a certain place or on a certain frequency and does some practice stuff. Its scheduled well in advance with lots of notice and planning. Disasters are not scheduled or planned. How long does it really take for the amateur radio community to (reliably) respond with proper needed equipment and carry out a plan?

My opinion is a good day or two to for someone in charge to figure out what amateur radio resources they have and for how long and to team up with whatever agency needs the communications and to learn how they can make it work. The amateur radio community is a great asset and does a lot of good work, but the good work cant start until lots of other things happen, which takes time. A bunch of hams with radios in a disaster is still just a bunch of hams with radios until resources are under control and a plan is implemented.

My observation of the UrgentLink system is the subscriber is already going to have some kind of plan in place and they will use UrgentLink to carry out some parts of their plan and they can rely on it from the instant they need it, unlike amateur radio.

In my opinion, the only thing standing in the way of UrgentLink is a major solar flare that disrupts all HF communications on the day you need it. That's probably unlikely and that would also affect HF amateur radio.
prcguy


902
>
prcguy
Based on your observations, is there so much magic in Urgentlink that hams could not duplicate the functionality, reliability and quality of a "managed" HF communications network in amateur spectrum?
If not, then hams should not claim to provide that public service for "free".
 
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Project4

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So, since you know this system, it depends not on in-band signaling, but on the Internet for its DX cluster-like emulation? Umm, how is that supposed to augment last-line communications when the Internet it relies on to work might not necessarily be there?

In direct response to your question, my experience is with ALE. Tell us about yours.

902
I wasn't sure if you were asking me or telling me about in-band data. I mentioned DXCluster functionality because it's operation is familiar to the HF amateur community. True, the DXCluster data exchange path is now via the Internet. It wasn't always. Remember Packet cluster networks?

I contacted ARINC UrgentLink this afternoon to clarify this issue. Apparently UrgentLink hardware utilizes a civilian feature subset of the HF/ALE I am familiar with. Therefore, it functions more like traditional ALE but benefits from the system management infrastructure and its connectivity to government agencies. The UrgentLink system is based on well established HF systems utilized by the military, government and maritime and air transport industries. Notably and without prompting, the ARINC representative mentioned that the role of the amateur community is not diminished but perhaps only redefined by the implementation of this system.

Rockwell Collins personnel are scheduled to demonstrate UrgentLink at sites in Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego counties (Southern California) later this month.

The Continental U.S. is less than 3000 miles wide. Amateurs certainly have the technical ability to build a robust HF network to rival UrgentLink in functionality. Would they staff it 24/7? Can they install transceivers and antenna systems at the served agencies and then train agency personnel to legally operate them? If they had, UrgentLink would have nothing to sell.
 

Project4

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The UrgentLink system uses frequencies that are seldom used if at all, which allows a number of commercial ALE channels to scan and work without interference. Amateur band loading and use is unpredictable and you can't always count on a programmed amateur ALE frequency to be clear at any given moment. I see this as one feather in UrgentLinks cap.

Excellent points, Sir:

Protected spectrum.
I recall a tropical storm event a couple of years ago. An article was published by Newsline promoting the story that hams were on the on air, using HF frequencies, providing needed communications out of the area affected by the storm. When I tuned to the published frequencies, I found one jammed by a scheduled W1AW (ARRL) RTTY broadcast transmission. When I suggested to the League they temporarily suspended their broadcast schedule, their response was focused on what my "authority" was to make that request.

Legal Operations
Then there is the ever present and paid UrgentLink operator who is there to connect you to just about anyone at any time via phone patch, or other radios in your system that may not be available direct due to distance or conditions or they can patch to other Govt radio systems, which amateur radio cannot legally provide.

But ARES members told me they modified their radios for out of band operation because it's OK to transmit in an "emergency".

"Practice"
How many of you have taken part in amateur radio disaster training? Everyone meets at a certain place or on a certain frequency and does some practice stuff. Its scheduled well in advance with lots of notice and planning.

Or no notice.
At a recent ARES meeting, a scheduled "simulated emergency" net was announced to those present. When I suggested a public announcement be made to the regional ham community, the club declined because they did not want to overwhelm the net controller.

I have not yet examined the UrgentLink product so I appreciate your comments in this forum. They have helped prepare me to ask some questions at an upcoming demonstration.
 

prcguy

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If you get to take part in a demonstration ask what base station responded and what frequency or band was used, that will give you an idea if it was a long haul cross country contact or local, NVIS, etc.

Try a phone patch and have them call your cell phone or somewhere you can test the link quality. Try it several times over a period of time if possible. Then try to attend another demonstration on another day at a different location and time to see how consistent it works.

I'm not shopping for their service but was privileged to attend a demonstration and was somewhat impressed with the demo and associated time to respond and link quality. I'm not an expert on any disaster communications planning but I think the UrgentLink system is a useful tool for what its being sold for. I would also not rely on them as the only communications plan but as one of many tools to get the job done.

YMMV but let us know how your demo goes.
prcguy


Excellent points, Sir:

Protected spectrum.
I recall a tropical storm event a couple of years ago. An article was published by Newsline promoting the story that hams were on the on air, using HF frequencies, providing needed communications out of the area affected by the storm. When I tuned to the published frequencies, I found one jammed by a scheduled W1AW (ARRL) RTTY broadcast transmission. When I suggested to the League they temporarily suspended their broadcast schedule, their response was focused on what my "authority" was to make that request.

Legal Operations


But ARES members told me they modified their radios for out of band operation because it's OK to transmit in an "emergency".

"Practice"


Or no notice.
At a recent ARES meeting, a scheduled "simulated emergency" net was announced to those present. When I suggested a public announcement be made to the regional ham community, the club declined because they did not want to overwhelm the net controller.

I have not yet examined the UrgentLink product so I appreciate your comments in this forum. They have helped prepare me to ask some questions at an upcoming demonstration.
 

KQ6XA

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During the Katrina disaster, ALE was used quite extensively by various agencies, including the helicopters and USCG boats and ships that rescued people.

For those actively involved in Katrina, you may remember that a solar storm on the 3rd day wiped out a lot of the normal "ham Emcomm" 75 meter night and 40 meter daytime NVIS voice nets. There were a lot of disappointed hams who had trained to only use these nets and didn't have an alternate frequency agile net plan.

Alan KM4BA, with his ALE mobile was the lead vehicle for all the hams who went in to set up the VHF simplex network in southern Mississippi between Red Cross shelters. By using the fledgling ham radio ALE net around the country, he was able to maintain daily contacts and messages, mostly by contacting ALE stations more than 1500 miles away on 18MHz, 21 MHz, and 28 MHz. HF prediction programs didn't even show the possibility of these higher bands being workable during a high A-Index geomagnetic disturbance. Sometimes the propagation on any given frequency would only be good for 15 minutes or an hour at a time. Then the propagation would shift to another band or another area of the country. Having a distributed network, and the use of the NETCALL feature in ALE, made it possible to stay connected.

The UrgentLink system obviously benefits from the same type of ALE networking, where there doesn't need to be specific peer-to-peer station contact, all there has to be is just the capability to hit one of the geographically dispersed base stations. This drastically changes the HF game when multiple points of contact are available on multiple parts of the spectrum. The odds of maintaining contact and providing a good channel go way up.
 
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nd5y

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902

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In my view, this still seems to be a competitive network to the Intrado/ShipComm partnership, and more or less a publicly available analog to COTHEN or SHARES for the fedworld. The services have been around for a while and have not necessarily threatened amateur radio or parallel affiliated services. It would make sense to leverage the capacity of Arinc and ShipComm during an acute event. It's more marketing than technological marvel. To an extent, there is considerable infrastructure behind these initiatives, and the real flexibility of amateur radio is that it's so fractal that it is infrastructure agnostic.

As for amateur radio working its side of the street, this could be an emotional and contentious issue. There is no one state of affairs. It's more like a continuum from high and tight operations to Coxey's army and anything in between. I will say that there are some organizations that use amateur licensees (not necessarily on amateur frequencies) that are highly committed to training and proficiency. There are also nets where you can get the local population count of possums, as well as ones that don't want to have anything to do with "those guys" (and "those guys" don't want anything to do with them, either). You pays your money and you takes your chances. That's not a line any emergency manager (who: a) is competent; and b) wants to keep his or her job) wants to hear.

The most important take-away is planning. Use Rockwell, Intrado, or ARES, it's all good, but have a plan, exercise it frequently, and have realistic expectations of what you need out of the respective services.

If they take their road show to the Southeast, I'd like to see what they have to offer.
 
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