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kikito

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fmon said:
Thanks for the clarification JE. My meaning was that the 396 apparently sets the required tables from the CC datastream doesn't it?


Up until recently, yes. But not on all the systems anymore, especially on many of the latest P25 UHF systems and the infamous Detroit Site 701. The true 'Implicit' systems will only transmit the voice channel grants as a number. That's why the BCD396T now supports putting tables on P25 systems.



BTW, I have Pro96Com running on the STARS at this time, and the dump page indicates three entries with Explicit Alternate CC's with freqs listed. The data page list them with the (a) also. Would these be correct to submit to the database page? Or is this a question foir Mike?

Yeah, that might be better for Mike to answer....

Maybe the STARS system is using a combination of Explicit and Implicit methods. Especially, when is one the first ones I've heard of not transmitting the SysId the "usual way", which I don't know what kind of privacy or "closed system" they expect to have just because they're not broadcasting that piece of info.....
 

mikey60

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kikito said:
Yeah, that might be better for Mike to answer....

Maybe the STARS system is using a combination of Explicit and Implicit methods. Especially, when is one the first ones I've heard of not transmitting the SysId the "usual way", which I don't know what kind of privacy or "closed system" they expect to have just because they're not broadcasting that piece of info.....

The explicit alternate control channel contains both the output channel and the input channel for the repeater. It's generally used when there are no tables that match the tx offset for that frequency.

As far as I can tell, these should be correct. We came to that conclusion back when I was just getting the real time decode going. That one we found on ALMR a couple years ago...

Mike
 

gcgrotz

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FYI anybody interested:

Friday I was at Piney Mtn, which is a few miles north of the Charlottesville airport, where the elevation is around 900ft. There is also a higher ridge to the east. I was easily able (with my BCD396 and vhf 1/4 wave magmount) to decode the Louisa CC on 152.0225 as well as RIC1 and RIC2 traffic. Listening on analog, the signal was barely out of the noise and would have been close to totally unreadable using NFM. Just an interesting observation of the increased usuable range of digital signals.
 

shumadine

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STARS continued

Hi folks,

Pardon the newbie question here. I recently re-engaged in scanning now that I purchased a PRO-96 and Starrsoft Win-96 and can hear Henrico and Richmond City again. What a great scanner and even better software ! I've found this site, and this thread in particular, to be most useful (when I have the time to read it). With my limited technical knowledge, I don't understand from all these threads if there is a definitive STARS file for monitoring Richmond area State Police broadcasts. I've seen some p96 files posted on the yahoo board and I've seen a drop in activity on this board. Does that mean 1) we're still trying to figure this out ? or 2) we've figured it out for the PRO-96 and everybody gets it but me? I'm still hearing plenty of activty on 159.000 and 158.985 so not sure whether I should even bother with STARS programming.

Any help would be most appreciated.
 

fmon

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"I don't understand from all these threads if there is a definitive STARS file for monitoring Richmond area State Police broadcasts."
The system is still evolving, but your zone is the only functional part of the system thus far. The group effort, including input from those far away who have experienced growth of a similar system, has pretty much found the necessary tables to use for programming the Pro-96/2096. This of course has been with the help of software by Mike V's (mikey60) Pro96Com, Don Starr's Win96 and initially the Pro96Dump utility by Rick (rfmobile). Table 2, 3 and 4 in the link below apply at this time.

"1) we're still trying to figure this out ?"
Yes, the system still has a long way to go before fully implemented.

"2) we've figured it out for the PRO-96 and everybody gets it but me?"
The history of this STARS Database link isn't apparent, but through Pro96Com, we've been able to rapidly bring it to reality for the Richmond Zone.

"I'm still hearing plenty of activty on 159.000 and 158.985 so not sure whether I should even bother with STARS programming."
The new system at this time is being simulcast from your District 1 frequencies. They will continue for a few years until STARS is fully functional. Keep in mind, STARS will blend local traffic into the statewide trunking system.

Hope this helps more then hinders. :lol:
 

jehm1212

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Since the new firmware upgrade, has anyone else noticed that their 396T tracks STARS worse than before or sometimes not at all? Side by side with my Pro-96, the 396T receives about 1 of every 10 transmissions when listening to the same control channel. I thought the upgrade was supposed to help with P-25 implicit systems.
 

RagnarD

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jehm1212 said:
Since the new firmware upgrade, has anyone else noticed that their 396T tracks STARS worse than before or sometimes not at all? Side by side with my Pro-96, the 396T receives about 1 of every 10 transmissions when listening to the same control channel. I thought the upgrade was supposed to help with P-25 implicit systems.

Hi Jehm,

I don't want to hijack this wonderful thread or turn it into a Uniden vs. GRE thing but I have always noticed that my GRE's track better than my BCD396T. I can't speak with respect to STARS because the tables for the GRE's were figured after the upgrade but I do know from experience with other P-25 systems my GRE's have always out performed my Uniden.

This is my experience and your mileage may vary.

73
de
chris
kq4z
 

dtscho

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I have also noticed that I don't seem to be receiving all the transmissions from one control channel with the 396. This is the Thornburg site with control channel 152.0975. The digital audio is set to Auto 6. I have the latest firmware (1.11.03).

I have the three associated voice channels in a conventional system, so I can tell when there is active voice. Then I quickly switch to the system where STARS is programmed as a P25 TRS. Sometimes it will display the talkgroup; sometimes it won't. It seems to be flashing the "LNK" designator when it's trying to receive a transmission.

Anyway, just a 396 user report. In general, I like the 396 a lot, except it appears I got a unit with a bad speaker/amp.

Dave
 

fmon

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Folks the skip is abundant this AM, I'm currently picking up the active CC on all 9 site and running PRO96COM STARS for short periods on each. Also, my 785D is picking up digital traffic on 158.7875, which is a Zone 10 freq. I have all Zone 9 & 10 freqs programmed in conventional mode. Don't know how, because the 785D is 3600b CC.

More later...
 

fmon

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I should have started with Warsaw, Leigh MT and Cumberland, by the time I finished with the others the skip dropped off. Will try again early tomorrow morning.
 

fmon

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The STARS system has the following two freqs which is likely rounded to what you are hearing.
Williamsburg has an alt CC 151.3925
Rumford has a VC 158.79750

Are you using Win96 V1.53?
 

Webodisk

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Forget to mention this was on older scanners, I like to eaves drop on First Landing State Park on 151.400, and 158.790 is Hertford Co NC Fire, I use win96 1.53

Thanks
Frank
 

dtscho

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dtscho said:
I have also noticed that I don't seem to be receiving all the transmissions from one control channel with the 396. This is the Thornburg site with control channel 152.0975. The digital audio is set to Auto 6. I have the latest firmware (1.11.03).

I have the three associated voice channels in a conventional system, so I can tell when there is active voice. Then I quickly switch to the system where STARS is programmed as a P25 TRS. Sometimes it will display the talkgroup; sometimes it won't. It seems to be flashing the "LNK" designator when it's trying to receive a transmission.

Anyway, just a 396 user report. In general, I like the 396 a lot, except it appears I got a unit with a bad speaker/amp.

Dave

Just as an update to this message...

I'm not having much better luck tracking STARS on the Thornburg control channel. The 396 will track those new 380 MHz military systems fine, so it must be something with STARS. A few other observations:

1. When I hold on the control channel, the audio will be muted for a few seconds, but then the control channel noise will come through. This does not happen with the 380 MHz systems--the audio remains muted, and the DAT indicator is steady on the display.

2. On a related note, the system seems to track only when the DAT indicator is on. Problem is, it only comes on every so often as the system is scanned. Even when the control channel is strong, the scanner will sometimes fly right by the control channel during its scan routine.

3. The 396 adds another line in the bandplan that is not on the STARS page in the database. Line 0 reads 851.00625/6.25. If I remove this line, I think it's automatically generated again. I don't know if this has anything to do with the problem.

The crux of the problem seems to be that the 396 doesn't recognize that 152.0975 is a control channel most of the time. Without that, the system can't track, of course.

Maybe this will all be fixed when the system moves to more permanent freqs.

So, does anyone with a 396 have similar problems besides jehm1212 and myself? Any suggestions?

Thanks much,
Dave
 

fmon

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These are the actual tables produced by the Pro-96/2096 on the CC using Pro96Com.

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth
00,851.00625,0.00625,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625
01,762.00625,0.00625,30.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625
02,136.00000,0.00250,4.50000,"Confirmed",0.01250
03,146.00000,0.00250,4.50000,"Confirmed",0.01250
04,156.00000,0.00250,-4.50000,"Confirmed",0.01250
05,166.00000,0.00625,-1.80000,"Confirmed",0.01250
06,136.00000,0.00625,1.80000,"Confirmed",0.01250
07,161.59375,0.00625,-1.80000,"Confirmed",0.01250

Doubtful table identifier 01, 05, 06 and 07 will be used either. Of course, no tables for anything in 380 MHz either.
 

kikito

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dtscho said:
1. When I hold on the control channel, the audio will be muted for a few seconds, but then the control channel noise will come through. This does not happen with the 380 MHz systems--the audio remains muted, and the DAT indicator is steady on the display.
FWIW, this happens in one of our ALMR sites up here too. I haven't been able to identify yet what's different about that site but I did noticed that when listening to the pure "buzzing" of the CC on this particular site with another scanner, there's some sort of cycle pause or pitch/rate change, like many of the old 3600 CCs use to have. When I listen to other sites, the buzzing is more constant without any change in the rate or sound.
 

dtscho

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kikito said:
FWIW, this happens in one of our ALMR sites up here too. I haven't been able to identify yet what's different about that site but I did noticed that when listening to the pure "buzzing" of the CC on this particular site with another scanner, there's some sort of cycle pause or pitch/rate change, like many of the old 3600 CCs use to have. When I listen to other sites, the buzzing is more constant without any change in the rate or sound.

Thanks for the reply. I do hear that cycle pause or pitch/rate change on this control channel. Bet it has something to do with that.

Dave
 

dtscho

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By any chance, is anyone getting a System ID to appear on a scanner yet? I don't get one on the 396 on the Thornburg site.

Dave
 

fmon

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System ID is 19E but this was found in the Dump Log of Pro96Com. My understanding is this system is "implicit" and won't offer the system ID from the CC stream. Earlier in this feed you may find a post by JE Torres (kikito) regarding implicit systems.
 
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