SDS100/SDS200: Starting from scratch - Undocumented DMR TIII system next door

[Facsimile]

As the title says, I have a DMR TIII system super close to me that has been operating on an expired license for two years. See more about that HERE. It is not in the RRDB so I thought I would do my best to get it documented. I wasn't sure the best place to post this - either here or in the DSD+ subforum. According to the FCC database, the callsign has four different physical locations all within a few miles of each other. I put them into a table below with their assigned frequencies.



My goal is to get the correct physical site frequencies into their appropriate "sites" on Sentinel, then load into my SDS200 and to search for the LCNs. I've used DSD+ only slightly, but if that would be easier to use let me know. What would be the next step to get this mapped out correctly?

 

[buddrousa]

Does the site frequencies show up in the expired FCC Database?
If yes the lockout all the other sites and 1 site at a time run LCN Finder in the SDS200.
With 2 per site found the LCN Utility could be very helpful.

 

[Facsimile]

Does the site frequencies show up in the expired FCC Database?
If yes the lockout all the other sites and 1 site at a time run LCN Finder in the SDS200.
With 2 per site found the LCN Utility could be very helpful.

Yes, that information does show in the expired listing. The callsign is KNFT477. It is in the same format that I have in the table above. When you say "With 2 per site" how will that work with Site 1 and Site 4 since they have one three and one frequencies respectively? Are you saying that each site should have an even number/pair of frequencies?

 

[dave3825]

He is saying look at the license and take freqs from one location and work out LCN. Then take freqs from another location and work out LCN.

 

[Facsimile]

I've had the LCN finder running for the last 12 hours on this very active system. There have been zero hits. I had DSD+ running as well and below is the information I get from it.

I'm very confused and probably way in over my head. I see the first network detected is L11. Then immediately, it switches to L10. Could it be that I am missing some frequencies or have the sites programmed incorrectly?

 

[dave3825]

I see the first network detected is L11. Then immediately, it switches to L10.

Can you post a screenshot of FMPX tuner's spectrum with the signal being present?

Could it be that I am missing some frequencies or have the sites programmed incorrectly?

Well, it is saying in red, no data for current site found in the freqs file. Did you add any freqs to the file? If so, could you post the relevant info from your dsdplus frequencies file?

 

[Facsimile]

Absolutely, thanks for the help. I'm going to be completely honest - I do not know how to update the DSDPlus.frequencies file for this. I think I've held off because I don't yet know the LCN to put it in the file. Plus, I honestly haven't worked with something this complex before.

 

[Facsimile]

Oh my... I feel really stupid. So this frequency that DSDPlus is attached to is 464.7625mhz. Why I didn't see this sooner, I don't know. This frequency is used by the local Amazon warehouse but is also part of the inactive license that is being used. With all that being said, I'd still like to figure out this TIII deal as I've never come across it before.

 

[dave3825]

Not sure where 11 fits in unless your close to a state line. What county/state are you in?

Try lowering the gain and narrowing the bandwidth, tho your not showing visible decoding errors.

L10 site 5 with 464.7625 color code 3 looks like it comes back to ERS Wireless Indiana and only has the one freq listed in the db, as do the rest of the sites on that system. Your window does not show any voice calls, just BS data. Have you seen any VC data at all? And it ran for a long time and still has a ? in the channel activity window, I believe nobody is transmitting. There are no submitted tg's for that system either. The site was only added in December so it may not be in use yet even tho the cc is on the air.

License shows two locations

1 - Fixed	ANGOLA, IN STEUBEN County	41-38-45.3 N, 085-00-21.2 W
2 - Fixed	PERU, IN MIAMI County	40-46-45.0 N, 086-05-24.0 W

and 464.7625 is listed for both.

000461.56250000​	1​	1​	5​	FB6​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000461.78750000​	1​	1​	6​	FB8​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000462.06250000​	1​	1​	1​	FB6​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000463.33750000​	1​	1​	2​	FB6​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000463.71250000​	1​	1​	3​	FB6​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000464.76250000​	1​	1​	4​	FB6​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​

000461.45000000​	2​	1​	6​	FB8​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000461.68750000​	2​	1​	7​	FB8​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000461.71250000​	2​	1​	4​	FB6​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000463.56250000​	2​	1​	8​	FB8​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000464.61250000​	2​	1​	9​	FB6​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​
000464.76250000​	2​	1​	5​	FB8​	​	1​	​	100.000​	200.000​

 

[Ubbe]

I do not know how to update the DSDPlus.frequencies file for this.

The info in the picture gives you the LSN 499 for site 10.4 and LSN 583 for site 10.2
You'll need to find another frequency to monitor that will give you 10.5 as a neighbor site that will then tell you what LSN site 10.5 are using. As you already know the frequency for the CC of 10.5 you can calculate what base frequency are in use and what frequencies those other sites are using as CC as you already have their LSNs.

If any voice calls starts to appear you then use the LCN calculator to get the frequency. All that info you enter in the frequency file in the DSD folder. The LCN calculator download can be found here at RR in its own thread.

/Ubbe

 

[pro92b]

dave3825 correctly identified the system, ERS Wireless Indiana which is in the database. The neighbors to L10 site 5 464.7625 correspond to site 2 cc= 583 454.6375 and site 4 cc=499 454.1125. DSD+ initially tries to decode the system as TIIIStd and so posts the system as L11 until it reads enough data to correct the system to TIIInonstd L10. This is normal if your DSD+ files do not give DSD+ the information to set the system as nonstd from the start.