What was the last "high-end" analog (non-synthesized) receiver of merit?

Omega-TI

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Now days there are too many synthesized receivers to count, some good, some bad. I know there were some analog tuners with digital displays, and other radios later that had DSP and adjustable filters. Some radios like the NRD 535 seemed like the end of an era, although I don't know for sure if the tuning was synthesized or if the filters were mechanical or not. But since RadioReference seems to have the largest collection of radio experts anywhere, I thought I'd pose the following questions...

1) What is considered the BEST (or one of) the last of the high-end consumer radios that were fully mechanical?
2) How would you rate it against modern radios (not SDR class).
 

prcguy

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I think excluding a synthesized tuner really limits your choices and leaves you with things like a Radio Shack DX-60 or old Hallicrafters SX-100. Some of the last high end non DSP or SDR radios had synthesized local oscillators but that doesn’t make them DSP or SDR. These would include the Harris RF-590 series and many by Racal or Watkins-Johnson, etc. The performance of some of the last super high end non SDR radios were stellar and better than all but the most high end current SDRs.
 

Omega-TI

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I think excluding a synthesized tuner really limits your choices and leaves you with things like a Radio Shack DX-60 or old Hallicrafters SX-100. Some of the last high end non DSP or SDR radios had synthesized local oscillators but that doesn’t make them DSP or SDR. These would include the Harris RF-590 series and many by Racal or Watkins-Johnson, etc. The performance of some of the last super high end non SDR radios were stellar and better than all but the most high end current SDRs.

Yeah, you're right excluding synthesized tuning was a bad idea. A DX-60 or SX-100 class is definitely too stone knives and bearskin for the modern era, but even on the used market a Harris RF-590 seems way out reach for most, if you could even find one. Also, on the RF-590 there is a lot to go wrong as they age and finding a decent repair tech could be problematic. I suppose if I were a rich man, I'm not, I'd get an Icom R-9500 or something.
 

merlin

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I had a Watkins Johnson 8711A, digital synthesized and DSP., compares very closely to Racal 6790. these were hard to beat across the board.
There was one HF receiver I had that I believe still sits as best of the best.
The R-390A-URR Glow in the dark but have yet to find anything to top it.
 

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WA8ZTZ

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If you are talking analog mechanical superhetrodyne, the Collins R390A and Hammarlund Super Pro 600 come to mind.
However, probably not considered consumer grade when new.
 

Omega-TI

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If you are talking analog mechanical superhetrodyne, the Collins R390A and Hammarlund Super Pro 600 come to mind.
However, probably not considered consumer grade when new.

It's probably a good radio, but the R390A seems a little too boat anchor class for me, while the SP 600 is not as bad, I don't think I could shoehorn either into my place.

Yaesu FRG-7
Kenwood R-820

The Frog-7 was a good radio! It's made for a dial turner and it never failed to surprise. IIRC correctly, the R820 was a transceiver, damn good radio from what I recall reading years ago. At the time it was out of the range of my wallet and the wife would have killed me! Great picks!
 

Omega-TI

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I had a Watkins Johnson 8711A, digital synthesized and DSP., compares very closely to Racal 6790. these were hard to beat across the board.
There was one HF receiver I had that I believe still sits as best of the best.
The R-390A-URR Glow in the dark but have yet to find anything to top it.

Wernet both the WJ 8711A and Racal 6790 top military picks BITD? Still out of my league. You guys know how to pick em!
 

jhooten

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the R820 was a transceiver, damn good radio from what I recall reading years ago. At the time it was out of the range of my wallet and the wife would have killed me! Great picks!
The R820 was the TS-820 without a transmitter section. The extra room in the case allowed for some extra filtering and amplification to be added making for better all around receiver.
 

Omega-TI

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The R820 was the TS-820 without a transmitter section. The extra room in the case allowed for some extra filtering and amplification to be added making for better all around receiver.

Thanks for setting me straight on that. It's been a lot of years, but the R designation over TS should have tipped me off. Nice to hear about the extra filtering and stuff.

I knew a guy back around 2003-2005 (since deceased) that was not a Ham, but purchased a then brand new Icom IC-706 MKII G simply for the remote head capability. He had no more room left on his desk, so he mounted the radio to the back of his desk, and put the remote head on the front of his desktop computer. It looked pretty slick. He also had it hooked up to a DSP speaker, which I could never figure out, because I thought the 706 had DSP built-in.
 

merlin

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Wernet both the WJ 8711A and Racal 6790 top military picks BITD? Still out of my league. You guys know how to pick em!
USN, USCG, W.H.O. used these shipboard and land stations along with some various Harris receivers. you could even find some Barrett and Collins in the lot. They might have been top dog back when they were new, but even now, the surplus is about dried up.
Dig deep enough, there is still some rapid deployment stations with Harris and Barrett stamped on the crates.
Internet auction flippers have driven the prices into outerspace.
 

Token

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Now days there are too many synthesized receivers to count, some good, some bad. I know there were some analog tuners with digital displays, and other radios later that had DSP and adjustable filters. Some radios like the NRD 535 seemed like the end of an era, although I don't know for sure if the tuning was synthesized or if the filters were mechanical or not.

If I remember right all of the NRD-5XX series were synthesized / PLL tuning, but with mechanical / ceramic filter options in the 505 - 535 and DSP in the 545.

A few receivers I have really liked were my R7A, NRD-93, and my Mckay Dymek DR33C. But I don't think any of those are going to meet your requirement of "not synthesized".

The FRG-7000 was not synth, and had digital readout and mechanical filters. But I would not rank it with the "best", at all. It was essentially an improved FRG-7 with digital readout. A decent radio, but not in the "best" realm. The FRG-7700 was also not synth, with digital readout, but also not in the "best" category. Decent, good even, but not top shelf.

I love classics like the Hammarlund SP-600, HQ-180, HQ-215, Hallicrafters SX-88, National NC-400, TMC GPR-90, R390A, RME 6900, National HRO-500, Collins 51S-1, 51J-3/4, etc. All of these I mentioned would have to rate "very good" at least, possibly reaching into the "best somewhat affordable" category. And I own (literally) tons of such boat anchors. But they are not my daily, go-to, rigs.

Do you have any particular reason for excluding synthesized rigs? Obviously, you don't need a reason, I was just wondering. Excluding synth rigs limits you to basically pre-1980 or so, and earlier than that for really high end gear. Many of the really nice radios mentioned in this thread are synth, things like the Ten-Tec RX340, Racal 6790, WJ 8711, Collins HF-2050, etc, are synthesized.

T!
 
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Omega-TI

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If I remember right all of the NRD-5XX series were synthesized / PLL tuning, but with mechanical / ceramic filter options in the 505 - 535 and DSP in the 545.

A few receivers I have really liked were my R7A, NRD-93, and my Mckay Dymek DR33C. But I don't think any of those are going to meet your requirement of "not synthesized".

The FRG-7000 was not synth, and had digital readout and mechanical filters. But I would not rank it with the "best", at all. It was essentially an improved FRG-7 with digital readout. A decent radio, but not in the "best" realm. The FRG-7700 was also not synth, with digital readout, but also not in the "best" category. Decent, good even, but not top shelf.

I love classics like the Hammarlund SP-600, HQ-180, HQ-215, Hallicrafters SX-88, National NC-400, TMC GPR-90, R390A, RME 6900, National HRO-500, Collins 51S-1, 51J-3/4, etc. All of these I mentioned would have to rate "very good" at least, possibly reaching into the "best somewhat affordable" category. And I own (literally) tons of such boat anchors. But they are not my daily, go-to, rigs.

Do you have any particular reason for excluding synthesized rigs? Obviously, you don't need a reason, I was just wondering. Excluding synth rigs limits you to basically pre-1980 or so, and earlier than that for really high end gear. Many of the really nice radios mentioned in this thread are synth, things like the Ten-Tec RX340, Racal 6790, WJ 8711, Collins HF-2050, etc, are synthesized.

T!

No, no particular reason for excluding synthesized radios. I'm basically trying to zero in on the best rigs before SDR's and the fall of shortwave radio. Many of the current crop of radios for sale seem okay to poor, nothing like when shortwave was in its heyday. << HERE >> is a list of what they call the 'best', but I'm sorry the Retekess V115 does NOT (IMHO) belong on this list for shortwave. Sure, it's cheap, sounds good on FM and even has an SD card slot and can record off the air, but it's shortwave reception leaves much to be desired, I know, I have one. I even have an Eton Elite Executive, but again, while it receives and can even do SSB, it's not what I call a stellar radio... and all the new ones appear to portable models. It would sure be nice to find a great receiving DESKTOP radio without breaking the bank.
 

WA8ZTZ

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A portable is not going to be a "stellar" radio. They may be sensitive enough but lack the selectivity of a "stellar" radio.
Selectivity adds cost and bulk which makes the portable less portable and prices it out of the market.
If you want a new desktop receiver you will have to buy a ham transceiver. AFAIK there is no new desktop SWL RX currently available.
 

Token

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No, no particular reason for excluding synthesized radios. I'm basically trying to zero in on the best rigs before SDR's and the fall of shortwave radio.

So my first question is going to be "why no SDR"?

If your answer is something like "because I don't want one" or "because I don't want to be tied to a computer", well that works. Only you can decide what you want. But by excluding SDR you are ignoring some very good, some even excellent, currently made receivers.

Once you get away from the lower cost RTL-SDR type stuff you find that a good, HF focused, SDR competes VERY favorably with the best SW radios ever made. An SDR like the venerable Perseus, the Elad FDM-S2, the WinRadio G31 or G33, all of these are very good to excellent radios in their own rights. I would put the G33 up against the very, very, best of the desktops I have ever owned or used, and the G31 and Perseus are only slightly behind that. The Elad FDM-S2 is not quite as good as the others I mentioned, but still decent. The RFSpace NetSDR (no longer made), the WinRadio G31DDCe, WinRadio G33DDCe, and the WinRadio G35DDCi are my primary HF receivers today.

And there are some very nice lower cost SDRs also. Again, I am talking above the price point of the RTL-SDR dongles, say $100 - $350 range.

Many of the current crop of radios for sale seem okay to poor, nothing like when shortwave was in its heyday. << HERE >> is a list of what they call the 'best', but I'm sorry the Retekess V115 does NOT (IMHO) belong on this list for shortwave. Sure, it's cheap, sounds good on FM and even has an SD card slot and can record off the air, but it's shortwave reception leaves much to be desired, I know, I have one. I even have an Eton Elite Executive, but again, while it receives and can even do SSB, it's not what I call a stellar radio... and all the new ones appear to portable models. It would sure be nice to find a great receiving DESKTOP radio without breaking the bank.

I think this is just economics.

The market for a good desktop, upper end hobby level, receiver has always been small, and today it is much smaller than in the past. There was traditionally a lot of overlap with ham radio.

Up until about 1970 or so a good desktop SW receiver was well fitted to also be used as a ham radio receiver. Remember, up until about that time separate receivers and transmitters were the norm. Up until digital readouts almost all good SW receivers included bandspread dials that specifically targeted ham bands. After digital readouts such things were no longer needed.

And the last of the decent hobby level desktops were introduced in the 1990's, and by the late 90's was fading to oblivion. Yes, you could still buy some dekstops up until the 2010's, but they were mostly holdovers from the 90's or lower cost units that companies used to dip their toes into the market.

Today that overlap with ham radio use is all but gone. Very, very, few people today would consider, for day to day ham use, a separate receiver and transmitter on HF.

It is simply a matter of, you will never find a very good to great receiving desktop radio that is not at least somewhat expensive. And, in the past, you never did either. In fact, it can be argued that such a radio has never been less expensive than it is today.

Look at what a radio like the NRD-535 cost when it was new. Working from memory here, so excuse small errors. It was introduced in about 1991 and you could could still find one until 1997 or 98. The MSRP on that thing was around $1600, but you could find them for ~$1300. $1300 in 1995 dollars is roughly $2700 in purchasing power today.

A similar "good" receiver of the day, the Drake R8, cost about $1100 to buy in 1991, or more than $2500 in purchasing power today.

My old Drake R7A was produced in 1982, and cost about $1300 at that time. More than $4200 in purchasing power today.

In 1953 the list price for a Hammarlund SP-600 was $395, real street price was around $350. That is more than $4100 in buying power today.

And we have not even gotten into the "professional" receivers, meant for purchasers like Uncle Sam, with deep pockets.

So today, the overlap market between SW and ham is realistically gone. The vast majority of entry level hobbyist in SW are satisfied with portables. Once you get to the level of someone willing to install a decent external antenna (more than a short random wire flopped out the window) for shortwave use (who is not already a ham) this market gets exceedingly small.

Today if you want a good new desktop dedicated receiver you have very few options, unless you are willing to buy a ham transceiver and just forget the transmitter exists. There is not much of a market for such things. I did not say no market, I said not much of one, and it is apparently not worth the radio makers time to fill that market.

What do we have today?

You have the Icom R8600 at ~$2600 or a tad less. This is a superlative HF stand alone desktop receiver, really very, very, good. In addition to HF you also have VHF and UHF. You can argue if that price point is hobby level or not, but, as you can see, it is on par with the cost of past good receivers, like the NRD-535, the Drake R8, etc when those were new. But, if all you want is HF, you don't have anything decent in stand alone desktops.

I have 2 R8600's at the desk here, but I still use the NetSDR, G31, and G33 most of the time for HF listening.

And then you have things like the R9500, but now you are in the pro realm of cost. Once you get to that price point (the cost of a good used car) you can find a few others.

However, a decent entry level ham transceiver, like the IC-7300, brings excellent HF receiver performance at a cost point below the traditional price of such performance. The IC-7300 is ~$1100 today. In converted purchasing power that is far less than someone paid for my 1957 Hallicrafters SX-99 back in 1957 ($160 list price, $125 real street price). And the SX-99 is complete, utter, junk compared to the IC-7300.

And any of the "high end" past receivers will likely cost, used, close to or more than the IC-7300 does new today.

I am not stuck on the -7300 in any way (and I don't own one), it just makes a nice example to use.

T!
 
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Omega-TI

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So my first question is going to be "why no SDR"?

If your answer is something like "because I don't want one" or "because I don't want to be tied to a computer", well that works. Only you can decide what you want. But by excluding SDR you are ignoring some very good, some even excellent, currently made receivers.

Once you get away from the lower cost RTL-SDR type stuff you find that a good, HF focused, SDR competes VERY favorably with the best SW radios ever made. An SDR like the venerable Perseus, the Elad FDM-S2, the WinRadio G31 or G33, all of these are very good to excellent radios in their own rights. I would put the G33 up against the very, very, best of the desktops I have ever owned or used, and the G31 and Perseus are only slightly behind that. The Elad FDM-S2 is not quite as good as the others I mentioned, but still decent. The RFSpace NetSDR (no longer made), the WinRadio G31DDCe, WinRadio G33DDCe, and the WinRadio G35DDCi are my primary HF receivers today.

And there are some very nice lower cost SDRs also. Again, I am talking above the price point of the RTL-SDR dongles, say $100 - $350 range.



I think this is just economics.

The market for a good desktop, upper end hobby level, receiver has always been small, and today it is much smaller than in the past. There was traditionally a lot of overlap with ham radio.

Up until about 1970 or so a good desktop SW receiver was well fitted to also be used as a ham radio receiver. Remember, up until about that time separate receivers and transmitters were the norm. Up until digital readouts almost all good SW receivers included bandspread dials that specifically targeted ham bands. After digital readouts such things were no longer needed.

And the last of the decent hobby level desktops were introduced in the 1990's, and by the late 90's was fading to oblivion. Yes, you could still buy some dekstops up until the 2010's, but they were mostly holdovers from the 90's or lower cost units that companies used to dip their toes into the market.

Today that overlap with ham radio use is all but gone. Very, very, few people today would consider, for day to day ham use, a separate receiver and transmitter on HF.

It is simply a matter of, you will never find a very good to great receiving desktop radio that is not at least somewhat expensive. And, in the past, you never did either. In fact, it can be argued that such a radio has never been less expensive than it is today.

Look at what a radio like the NRD-535 cost when it was new. Working from memory here, so excuse small errors. It was introduced in about 1991 and you could could still find one until 1997 or 98. The MSRP on that thing was around $1600, but you could find them for ~$1300. $1300 in 1995 dollars is roughly $2700 in purchasing power today.

A similar "good" receiver of the day, the Drake R8, cost about $1100 to buy in 1991, or more than $2500 in purchasing power today.

My old Drake R7A was produced in 1982, and cost about $1300 at that time. More than $4200 in purchasing power today.

In 1953 the list price for a Hammarlund SP-600 was $395, real street price was around $350. That is more than $4100 in buying power today.

And we have not even gotten into the "professional" receivers, meant for purchasers like Uncle Sam, with deep pockets.

So today, the overlap market between SW and ham is realistically gone. The vast majority of entry level hobbyist in SW are satisfied with portables. Once you get to the level of someone willing to install a decent external antenna (more than a short random wire flopped out the window) for shortwave use (who is not already a ham) this market gets exceedingly small.

Today if you want a good new desktop dedicated receiver you have very few options, unless you are willing to buy a ham transceiver and just forget the transmitter exists. There is not much of a market for such things. I did not say no market, I said not much of one, and it is apparently not worth the radio makers time to fill that market.

What do we have today?

You have the Icom R8600 at ~$2600 or a tad less. This is a superlative HF stand alone desktop receiver, really very, very, good. In addition to HF you also have VHF and UHF. You can argue if that price point is hobby level or not, but, as you can see, it is on par with the cost of past good receivers, like the NRD-535, the Drake R8, etc when those were new. But, if all you want is HF, you don't have anything decent in stand alone desktops.

I have 2 R8600's at the desk here, but I still use the NetSDR, G31, and G33 most of the time for HF listening.

And then you have things like the R9500, but now you are in the pro realm of cost. Once you get to that price point (the cost of a good used car) you can find a few others.

However, a decent entry level ham transceiver, like the IC-7300, brings excellent HF receiver performance at a cost point below the traditional price of such performance. The IC-7300 is ~$1100 today. In converted purchasing power that is far less than someone paid for my 1957 Hallicrafters SX-99 back in 1957 ($160 list price, $125 real street price). And the SX-99 is complete, utter, junk compared to the IC-7300.

And any of the "high end" past receivers will likely cost, used, close to or more than the IC-7300 does new today.

I am not stuck on the -7300 in any way (and I don't own one), it just makes a nice example to use.

T!
This was a bloody awesome and well thought out and informative reply, thank you! Thank you so much.

Yeah, the IC-7300 is a beauty, and I would consider it under normal conditions, but about six months ago I bought a retirement condo with an HOA barring outside antennas. Since a radio is only as good as it's antenna, this radio is probably overkill for the kind of antenna I could use. I'm still investigating antenna options at the moment as well.

The computer SDR based units you mentioned are great and probably orders of magnitude better than the cheap RTL-SDR I got as an intro to that segment of the hobby, but a computer based unit would keep me tied to the den for SWLing, which is why I wasn't really interested in one of them. I do 90% of my shortwave activity from the comfort of bed at night or early morning before I get up.
 

Token

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This was a bloody awesome and well thought out and informative reply, thank you! Thank you so much.

Yeah, the IC-7300 is a beauty, and I would consider it under normal conditions, but about six months ago I bought a retirement condo with an HOA barring outside antennas. Since a radio is only as good as it's antenna, this radio is probably overkill for the kind of antenna I could use. I'm still investigating antenna options at the moment as well.

Ouch, sorry to hear about that antenna limitation.

With that said, there may ways around that, depending on your exact situation. All of them will be compromises, but some can work pretty well. The below may not be applicable in your case, but I present them as an example of things that can be done.

My dad was in an HOA in FL, with a small patio and fenced back yard, that says "no external antennas", but looking closer, what they (his) really say is "nothing in the front yard and nothing in the back yard that can be seen over the fence". If it doesn't look like an obvious antenna, and whatever it is can't be seen by the neighbors or from the front road, they didn't really care.

He asked if he could put a small plastic "garden tool" shed in the back, at the corner of the patio, one about 5' x 5' x 6', to store outdoor shoes, porch furniture, and such in. The HOA wanted to see what model it was before they allowed it, but they did let him put it in place. Inside that shed went an active loop on a small rotor.

Of course, this was not optimal as an antenna installation, but really not bad at all. In fact it was surprisingly good. Active loops perform well low to the ground, and being on the rotor he could turn it to null out local noise sources.

I was an apartment dweller for a number of years, a ground floor apartment with a definite "no antenna or anything on the porch other than lawn furniture" policy. I ended up with an antenna under the eaves made of small gauge wire. It was far less than optimal, but it did work. I also used an active loop inside the apartment, in a spare bedroom. Again, not great, but it did work.

The computer SDR based units you mentioned are great and probably orders of magnitude better than the cheap RTL-SDR I got as an intro to that segment of the hobby, but a computer based unit would keep me tied to the den for SWLing, which is why I wasn't really interested in one of them. I do 90% of my shortwave activity from the comfort of bed at night or early morning before I get up.

Sort of.

I can, and do, run some of my SDRs from a small tablet or iPad while setting on the back porch with my wife or in bed. It depends on the SDR, if they are USB connected that may not be an easy option, but if they are Ethernet connected that well may be an option. And there are ways to get around the issue with USB connected SDRs, but that often entails setting up a local server for the SDR or some other remote access option. Not hard, just another step that can be confusing.

The Kiwi SDR is designed to be used in a web browser and remotely controlled over Ethernet. The Kiwi is not exactly top shelf, but very much better than an RTL-SDR. You plug it into power and an Ethernet cable into your home router, plug it into an antenna, and it is set up. You then can access it from your phone, iPad, tablet, PC, Chromebook, anything with a web browser that can access your home network. If you set it up correctly you can also access it via the internet from anywhere in the world, but that part is optional. I have a local Kiwi at my place in California and a second Kiwi at my place in Louisiana.

Speaking of the Kiwi, and net access, have you tried the available Internet accessed receivers? To me they are not as much of a draw as tuning my own radio, at my location, but they are an option to tune SW if you absolutely cannot set up anything at your own place.

Some sources of remote world wide SW tuners:
1. WebSDR (no software to install, access via web browser) websdr.org (the most popular tuner there is University Twente)
2. KiwiSDR (no software to install, access via web browser) Wideband shortwave radio receiver map or http://kiwisdr.com/public/
3. SDR Console has several online receivers (more than 50 world wide), but requires you install the software and set it up to access them, worth it since the software is pretty good.
4. Global Tuners (requires signing up for membership, but it is free) On-line remotely controlled radio receivers - GlobalTuners

Remember though, a lot of those remote SDRs / receivers are put up by people who also have antenna limitations, so some of them are not great. In fact some of them are down right bad. But some of them are excellent also.

T!
 

fasteddy64

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Drake.

I have a fancy whizz-bang Icom 7610 here but I still prefer my Drake R-4B with the FS-4 synthesizer hands down.
The scope doesnt excite me. The DSP doesnt excite me.
The smooth PTo and nice mellow tube audio of the Drake however does!

IMG_6219.jpg
 
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