Why is the Harris XL200 so popular ?

[ElroyJetson]

Eventually that's going to become commonplace. Nobody expects otherwise. Can't have a proper Police State without keeping the activities of the publicly funded servants known as the police a closely guarded secret, right?

The concept of a dedicated, specific purpose communications device like the two way radio as we know it, is an idea that has a limited lifespan. The future, and we know it already, is heading increasingly toward broadband, general purpose, software defined devices that operate within a defined digital space. Eventually there won't BE public safety two way radios as we know them now. The APX Next series radios (and Harris does have an equivalent, though I do not recall its name) points the way forward, in the short term. Less a "two way radio" and more of a specialized smartphone with ergonomic enhancements for public safety usage.

 

[ElroyJetson]

I know zip about RPM2. It's outside my range of experience and have no radios that need it. In the future, any form of AAC that can be programmed, can be broken. Sure won't be me doing it. I'm no programmer, that's for sure! I don't even really know how AAC works. Only what it does.

 

[junior71]

I just got a hold of a XL200P, I was skeptical at first. I’ve always been a die hard Motorola fan. I have to say this radio is very nice. I especially love the audio quality. I can honestly say it sounds better than any Motorola but not as loud as a 8000. For loudness it falls between and 7000 and 8000 it holds its own still loud excellent sounding audio. The LCD is also far better than Motorola except for maybe the E5 head or NEXT. As for NAS if you’re into that far easier and less tedious. Just not sure about it’s ruggedness compared to Motorola apx radios however. I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on a XL400 once they’re readily available in the wild.

 

[nikronzo]

L3 Harris actually listened to the customer base and created a system for which legitimate user could monitor trunked system with VALID RPM2 software and not have to affiliate with the trunk. Motorola said screw you and gave the world TG/AG Disable and that was it.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Tell me more about the RPM2 listening option. Sooner or later I'll have a reason to know it.

That is...if it's any different from the simple method we already use for existing Harris radios via RPM. (Or, previously, ProGrammer.)

 

[BMDaug]

Tell me more about the RPM2 listening option. Sooner or later I'll have a reason to know it.

That is...if it's any different from the simple method we already use for existing Harris radios via RPM. (Or, previously, ProGrammer.)

No, it’s exactly the same. People just forget that even municipalities with a system key sometimes need the ability to monitor TGs that they aren’t authorized to TX on. Like a local PD that wants to monitor a prison, local FD, state police, public works, DOT… whatever helps them respond faster and interoperate better. SAR is another good use case. We are limited to a relatively small number of TGs and it’s nice to be able to hear other aspects of the response. That’s really what the feature is for. You can affiliate with half a dozen TGs and listen to half a dozen more.

-B

 

[mmckenna]

I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on a XL400 once they’re readily available in the wild.

You'll need big hands. It's not a small radio.

 

[wa8pyr]

No, it’s exactly the same. People just forget that even municipalities with a system key sometimes need the ability to monitor TGs that they aren’t authorized to TX on. Like a local PD that wants to monitor a prison, local FD, state police, public works, DOT… whatever helps them respond faster and interoperate better. SAR is another good use case. We are limited to a relatively small number of TGs and it’s nice to be able to hear other aspects of the response. That’s really what the feature is for. You can affiliate with half a dozen TGs and listen to half a dozen more.

Correct. Completely different animal than NAS (although Harris is way better at that than Motorola).

We do this all the time; so they can monitor each other our law types have some fire talkgroups set to TX disable, while our fire types have the law dispatch talkgroups set to TX disable. Very handy.

L3 Harris actually listened to the customer base and created a system for which legitimate user could monitor trunked system with VALID RPM2 software and not have to affiliate with the trunk.

Not quite correct. What Harris is doing (which they've done for years) is a "Transmit" checkbox in the group or frequency set which when unchecked prohibits the user transmitting on that talkgroup or frequency. The radio is still registered on the system and affiliated to that talkgroup. I've worked with radios from everybody (Harris, Tait, EFJ/Kenwood, Icom, RELMBK and Motorola), and all of the manufacturers except Motorola do it this way, it works fine.

Motorola said screw you and gave the world TG/AG Disable and that was it.

I completely concur with the opinion about TG/AG Disable; nearly useless feature. For some peculiar reason, it treats a personality set this way as a completely different trunked system, thus preventing you from scanning TGs set up for disable in a Priority Scan list; you have to use Multi-System Scan or Intelligent Priority (which the jury is still out on).

 

[GTR8000]

I completely concur with the opinion about TG/AG Disable; nearly useless feature. For some peculiar reason, it treats a personality set this way as a completely different trunked system, thus preventing you from scanning TGs set up for disable in a Priority Scan list; you have to use Multi-System Scan or Intelligent Priority (which the jury is still out on).

The issue is with the Designated Voice Tx Member Type. If it's set to Selected Channel, then it's going to balk at letting you assign that particular scan list to any trunking personality that has TG/AG Disabled selected. This is the case for Priority Monitor, Multi-System Talkgroup, and Intelligent Priority scan list types, by the way...not just for Priority Monitor.

The workaround is to set the Designated Voice Tx Member Type to Talkback, which is a lousy solution.

However the bottom line is that no, the radio does not treat those AG/TG Disabled talkgroups as completely different trunked systems, nor are you prevented from scanning those talkgroups. Those talkgroups can be included without restriction in any Priority Monitor scan lists that are not assigned to an AG/TG Disabled personality.

 

[BMDaug]

You'll need big hands. It's not a small radio.

They are also around 50% to 75% more expensive than a similarly equipped XL200P… Someone please correct me if this is not the case!

-B

 

[mmckenna]

They are also around 50% to 75% more expensive than a similarly equipped XL200P… Someone please correct me if this is not the case!

-B

They are quite a bit more than an XL-200P. If I recall correctly, it starts in the $10K range and goes up.

 

[IFRIED91]

They are quite a bit more than an XL-200P. If I recall correctly, it starts in the $10K range and goes up.

Oh from what I’ve seen it’s bigger then an xg100P!!! I’m not joking.. antenna is a combination of flexible and collapsible just like the PRC-152… also the number pad is integrated into the direction keys and menus are very very simple and large to read… it literally looks like it was designed for elderly folks to use 🤣🤣🤣

 

[TDR-94]

Oh from what I’ve seen it’s bigger then an xg100P!!! I’m not joking.. antenna is a combination of flexible and collapsible just like the PRC-152… also the number pad is integrated into the direction keys and menus are very very simple and large to read… it literally looks like it was designed for elderly folks to use 🤣🤣🤣

Is the XL-400P now supporting low band? Is the antenna really that much longer that it needs to be able to be folded?

 

[wa8pyr]

The issue is with the Designated Voice Tx Member Type. If it's set to Selected Channel, then it's going to balk at letting you assign that particular scan list to any trunking personality that has TG/AG Disabled selected. This is the case for Priority Monitor, Multi-System Talkgroup, and Intelligent Priority scan list types, by the way...not just for Priority Monitor.

The workaround is to set the Designated Voice Tx Member Type to Talkback, which is a lousy solution.

However the bottom line is that no, the radio does not treat those AG/TG Disabled talkgroups as completely different trunked systems, nor are you prevented from scanning those talkgroups. Those talkgroups can be included without restriction in any Priority Monitor scan lists that are not assigned to an AG/TG Disabled personality.

Potatoes/potatoes.... I see it differently; if I can't use Priority Monitor just because I've got Voice TX set to Selected, it might as well be another system. And by the way, multi-system talkgroup does work for this; it's the only way I've been able to use scan if TG/AG Disable is set.

But in any case, it's a really, really crappy implementation of a TX Disable function. I always thought Motorola was better than that....

 

[mmckenna]

Is the XL-400P now supporting low band? Is the antenna really that much longer that it needs to be able to be folded?

No.
The XL-200M (Mobile) will support low band.
the XL-200P and XL-400P will not.

I've held the radio, and I do not personally recall a collapsable antenna.

 

[GTR8000]

And by the way, multi-system talkgroup does work for this; it's the only way I've been able to use scan if TG/AG Disable is set.

Not if that scan list is assigned to a trunking personality that is set to AG/TG Disabled and your Voice TX is set to Selected. I just verified it for myself. Anyway, whatever...Harris thread, too much MSI talk.

 

[ElroyJetson]

I've seen the current Harris catalog. (Have a copy.) An XL-400P can be configured to have a price tag above 14,000 dollars at list price.

You can push an XL-200P well over 7000 dollars. And yet I keep hearing that Harris radios are cheaper than Motorola?

Well, that may be possible by negotiated contract pricing, but there's not much evidence of it in the catalog!

Of course, Motorola will bargain, too.

 

[TDR-94]

I've seen the current Harris catalog. (Have a copy.) An XL-400P can be configured to have a price tag above 14,000 dollars at list price.

You can push an XL-200P well over 7000 dollars. And yet I keep hearing that Harris radios are cheaper than Motorola?

Well, that may be possible by negotiated contract pricing, but there's not much evidence of it in the catalog!

Of course, Motorola will bargain, too.

They pricing is almost never as high as looking at all the features and then itemizing the cost.

 

[mmckenna]

Well, that may be possible by negotiated contract pricing, but there's not much evidence of it in the catalog!

Of course, Motorola will bargain, too.

The catalog is list price. No one should be paying list price.
25% or more off that is super easy to do. A good purchasing agency can knock that down even farther.

I paid around $6600 each, that was with LTE, BeON, encryption, P25 trunking (Phase 1 and 2) VHF, UHF, 700, 800MHz, 4.8Ah battery, speaker mic and a bunch of other add ons. Only thing I didn't order was the 900MHz option.
If Motorola can do cheaper, they should have stepped up.

 

[Falcon9h]

All over my head now.. haven't had Motorola since the used Saber days. I don't understand affiliation and all that.
Example scenario: (this did not and will *not* happen to me): Crackhead swipes an APX or Harris. Agency knows it. Stuns radio. Crackhead sells it to someone. That someone turns it on, radio tries to register and won't so the illegitimate user bought a brick since the thing isn't allowed access to the system. Right?
IOW for a guy like me, get a scanner, as much as I used to love commercial equipment. Worked in a few shops and had access to programming and all that but not since 2000.
I did a search and that Harris is a damned good looking radio though!