Napa Digital?

[kg6nlw]

It sounds like Napa, C.A., has gone to a digital system. I haven't been in the area in a bit, has anyone seen a new system come up in the area?

@officer_415 maybe something to keep an eye on?

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[gmclam]

Are you asking about any specific agency? -- Sheriff, PD, CHP, ... ?

 

[brushfire21]

Yes, Napa SO has switched to P25 on Red Net. I do not have NAC or if its encrypted at this point but is conventional simulcast phase-1.

 

[officer_415]

Looks like it’s unencrypted, NAC 2CC

 

[ramal121]

Yes and E or e is pending as they work this out.

 

[daniel18522]

Anyone know why dispatch is on TG 65535 Unit ID 1 and mobiles are on TG 1.

 

[kg6nlw]

Are you asking about any specific agency? -- Sheriff, PD, CHP, ... ?

The whole county. I already know what CHP is, for now...

Looks like it’s unencrypted, NAC 2CC

So not a fully trunked system, just a P25 "channel" instead?

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[officer_415]

So not a fully trunked system, just a P25 "channel" instead?

Correct.

 

[inigo88]

Anyone know why dispatch is on TG 65535 Unit ID 1 and mobiles are on TG 1.

I’ve noticed this on several P25 conventional systems in the past. Historically older digital scanners wouldn’t display talkgroup for P25 conventional so scanner hobbyists weren’t noticing this in the past, but new ones like the SDS-100 do. Theoretically I think you could use talkgroups to set the conventional system up to only receive the dispatcher (so mobiles are only listening on the dispatcher’s talkgroup and aren’t hearing other mobiles) but that would be more likely for business users like taxis, garbage trucks etc. I’ve also run into the case where the talkgroups were programmed separately by the manufacturer and it was totally unintentional, and I suspect that is the case here.

 

[ramal121]

And since they are not using talkgroups then the NAC is the only qualifier. Any TG ID that shows is a moot point.

 

[officer_415]

Theoretically I think you could use talkgroups to set the conventional system up to only receive the dispatcher

Oh geez, don't tell LASD or CHP

 

[inigo88]

And since they are not using talkgroups then the NAC is the only qualifier. Any TG ID that shows is a moot point.

Do you have insider info to confirm this? I agree with you that this is mostly likely the case, and that the radios are set to unsquelch with the correct NAC and any talkgroup ID. But since the default talkgroup ID is 1, this means somebody went out of their way to program weird talkgroup IDs in the consoles (maybe Motorola).

 

[ramal121]

I am responsible for a handful of radios that use Napa Red. I was only given a freq and a NAC. My radios were set up sans talkgroup ops and used the same RID as the old MDC ID. Haven't heard boo from them otherwise so I guess it's working.

By the way, talkgroups on a single conventional channel are just a big cluster. Can you say community repeater?

 

[officer_415]

Do you have insider info to confirm this? I agree with you that this is mostly likely the case, and that the radios are set to unsquelch with the correct NAC and any talkgroup ID. But since the default talkgroup ID is 1, this means somebody went out of their way to program weird talkgroup IDs in the consoles (maybe Motorola).

65535 (FFFF hex) will unsquelch for any TGID. It's the default for some vendors.

 

[inigo88]

I am responsible for a handful of radios that use Napa Red. I was only given a freq and a NAC. My radios were set up sans talkgroup ops and used the same RID as the old MDC ID. Haven't heard boo from them otherwise so I guess it's working.

By the way, talkgroups on a single conventional channel are just a big cluster. Can you say community repeater?

Nice! Agreed with the above.

65535 (FFFF hex) will unsquelch for any TGID. It's the default for some vendors.

Sorry I didn’t catch this initially. So whoever programmed the console actually did it with mutual aid in mind! But I think the default talkgroup ID value that appears in CPS is 1, because 99% of the P25 conventional freqs I’ve run across end up being programmed that way. If I had to guess the techs programming the radios just ignore the talkgroup field in CPS and choose the receive all talkgroups setting, but programming the console for talkgroup 65535 was smart in case anybody forgets to check that box.

 

[CityNewsSupport1]

It sounds like Napa, C.A., has gone to a digital system. I haven't been in the area in a bit, has anyone seen a new system come up in the area?

@officer_415 maybe something to keep an eye on?

Regards,

-Frank C.

Hello Frank
I was in Napa today and this is the case and the audio is choppy! Strange that they did it on the Sheriffs Red Channel and not on the Napa LE Primary Channel. Could this be them setting up a Secure Records Channel? Of all the areas I cover the only one using a E Records Channel is Santa Rosa but they have a full P25 System. I do not know all the tec stuff but Napa, County does not seem like a geographically great place for P25! VHF has many dead spots in that County.

 

[brushfire21]

Hello Frank
I was in Napa today and this is the case and the audio is choppy! Strange that they did it on the Sheriffs Red Channel and not on the Napa LE Primary Channel. Could this be them setting up a Secure Records Channel? Of all the areas I cover the only one using a E Records Channel is Santa Rosa but they have a full P25 System. I do not know all the tec stuff but Napa, County does not seem like a geographically great place for P25! VHF has many dead spots in that County.

Having been monitoring the new system using an APX6000 and XTS5000 portable radios since it switched. As I drive around the county including the rural areas to the east in Pope Valley and other areas that have had issues, the coverage is better then the simulcast analog system it replaced in my humble opinion. Red has been the "primary" channel for a bit now now and they either have Napa PD, Amcan and SO on it, or they will split channels and SO will stay on Red and Napa PD will switch to another channel (Pri or Blue) it seems. I have not noticed any choppiness on my end that I have heard other then areas where I'm at the fringe and start getting some drop out but that is different.

 

[officer_415]

Strange that they did it on the Sheriffs Red Channel and not on the Napa LE Primary Channel.

Years back didn't they upgrade Red to simulcast first, started using that, then they upgraded Primary but never switched back to it?

 

[CityNewsSupport1]

Having been monitoring the new system using an APX6000 and XTS5000 portable radios since it switched. As I drive around the county including the rural areas to the east in Pope Valley and other areas that have had issues, the coverage is better then the simulcast analog system it replaced in my humble opinion. Red has been the "primary" channel for a bit now now and they either have Napa PD, Amcan and SO on it, or they will split channels and SO will stay on Red and Napa PD will switch to another channel (Pri or Blue) it seems. I have not noticed any choppiness on my end that I have heard other then areas where I'm at the fringe and start getting some drop out but that is different.

Thanks BF21 I have only been in the County twice since the change over, so I owe it some time! Growing up in Napa I scanned most of my childhood starting with a 4 crystal scanner in the late 80's! Napa One, Red, Blue and Napa 4 I always thought they had a good system with NPD NSO Dispatch. I guess analog is becoming the past and digital the future. Side question on the feed you provide I assume Broadcastify do you have Red up in P25 format?

Years back didn't they upgrade Red to simulcast first, started using that, then they upgraded Primary but never switched back to it?

Hi Officer 415 Yes about 3 years ago some racist transmissions were broadcast over Primary, they switched to Red Channel during the Investigation and never went back!

 

[brushfire21]

Thanks BF21 I have only been in the County twice since the change over, so I owe it some time! Growing up in Napa I scanned most of my childhood starting with a 4 crystal scanner in the late 80's! Napa One, Red, Blue and Napa 4 I always thought they had a good system with NPD NSO Dispatch. I guess analog is becoming the past and digital the future. Side question on the feed you provide I assume Broadcastify do you have Red up in P25 format?


Hi Officer 415 Yes about 3 years ago some racist transmissions were broadcast over Primary, they switched to Red Channel during the Investigation and never went back!

I think the original Napa City Channels (at least Napa City Fire) were single frequency back in the day and didn't go repeater for a long time. Not sure about he history on LE channels as I have been more on the fire side of the house all these years. I too started listening in the late 80's with a Radio Shack 10-channel synthesized portable scanner I was given for xmas one year and that was one of the best gifts up to that point in time as a kid.

Today it dawned on me that the audio quality on the dispatch side of Napa-1 is a bit muffled and honestly kind of lousy on Red. It's almost like they are over modulating if it was an analog signal. On the field side, the audio is much better and fairly clear. Thinking they have some audio tuning todo along with the Code-33 beeps are muffled as well and not very audible, the P25 codec is unable to pass the audio through very well or its being filtered out. Growing pains and hoping at some point they will get it tweaked.

As far as feeds go, its only Fire Stuff that I am broadcasting. To be honest I am on the fence about LE feeds as it only gives them more reason to encrypt and I know its very likely it will go that way eventually. Personally I wish LE would use the MDT more for records and PII stuff or have that info Encrypted on a Records channel/talkgroup and leave the day to day traffic in the clear for public information and situational awareness along with transparency.