146.52 in Las Vegas

[SCPD]

People are getting pretty emotional about this issue and not paying each other due respect. I want to weigh in here with my observations. When I'm traveling I always have a scanner on scanning natural resource agencies at the minimum and most of the time the highway patrol and the state's dept. of transportation. I want to make sure that I don't miss any radio traffic that might affect the drive ahead.

I also want to keep the ham set on in case someone sees the antennas and/or the my ham plates. If I try to listen to the repeaters in the area it is too much noise when combined with the scanner and my wife and I talking to one another. So I keep the ham radio on 146.520 and 446.000. Now the latter gets little use as 146.520 is better known. When other hams sees my antennas and or ham license plates they often call me and we chat for a moment, go to other simplex frequencies (those on the band plan for the state we are in) or we agree to meet on a local repeater.

At home I often leave 156.520 on and nothing else. I often find that some people don't have time to program their radios before leaving home and don't have the ARRL repeater handbook with them. I will share frequencies for the repeaters in the region and then, sometimes, we will get on one of those repeaters to chat some more.

When I take the U.S. 95/U.S. 93 route to the Phoenix area to visit family I turn the ham mobile off in Beatty and leave it off until I'm about 20 miles north of Kingman. All the chat on national simplex is too much to listen to while I'm in that stretch and any chance of a simplex contact is lost.

At home if there was a repeater on 146.520 or a remote base, I would not monitor it. Sometimes our local repeater is very quiet, but other times it is full of hams skiing the local ski area and is too busy to listen to, so that is when I just park the base station on 146.520.

I don't find using 52 for a remote base and chatting on it particularly innovative. It isn't particularly difficult to move such chat over to another simplex channel in the state or area simplex frequencies. I don't particularly like to drive through Vegas (I live in a somewhat remote area and don't care to travel in metro areas) so we are now evaluating the Barstow- Needles-Kingman-south U.S. 93 route. This route is only 50 additional miles and that might be worth it because the stress of driving through Las Vegas is something I don't enjoy. The other benefit is that I can leave 52 on.

Sometimes I go through Las Vegas as my college roommate and another college buddy of mine live there. When I stay there I don't monitor 52. I monitor other simplex frequencies based on the 30 kHz spacing for southern Nevada.

According to the band plans in many areas 146.520 would not be a valid simplex frequency. The nice thing about 52 is that no matter the band plan it is acknowledged as national simplex calling. Using it for other reasons and saying that no one is excluded from using it as a calling reminds me of what some people would say to me during my career, with one duty enforcing traffic laws, when they parked in a handicapped parking space without a placard. "Well it wasn't being used and if a handicapped person needs it all they have to do ask us and we will move for them." Of course that didn't hold water as those handicapped people were not going to make the attempt to find whose car was parked illegally, they just drove right passed it.

No it is not the law, but hams try to cooperate and set some ground rules. I respect the band plans of the areas I travel through. The recommendation is to use 52 to make initial contact and then exchange information on using another simplex frequency or a repeater. Even in L.A. where the 2 meter band has a lot of activity, 52 is kept for the use the "recommendation" envisioned it for. The logic presented here is that because it is only recommendation it's OK to use it for whatever purpose any one wants to. Heck, why follow any band plan, so why not use digital modulation on 146.94? Why not use all the simplex frequencies for repeaters and repeater frequencies for simplex? Why form an organization to formulate a band plan and coordinate repeaters? Why not abandon that procedure? Would that be innovative?

 

[com501]

I live in the boondocks. We use P25 on .52. And fireline explosives are WAY more fun than a drip torch!

 

[SCPD]

I live in the boondocks. We use P25 on .52. And fireline explosives are WAY more fun than a drip torch!

Using digital on 52, how innovative. That would be another reason not to monitor 52 as digital is rather annoying (to say the least) and I stay away from it. I think doing so is inconsiderate as digital should be on certain frequencies so you don't get blasted with digital hash. Sometimes I lose my enthusiasm for ham radio due to how rude and inconsiderate some operators are at times. So now we have repeaters (I know, not technically) and digital on the national simplex frequency. But that is OK because the band plans are not laws, just recommendations.

Fireline explosives, I would not like to be around them as the booms and the words "fire in the hole" scare me! Besides I like to watch things burn and not blow up. I can't have too many insanities!

 

[com501]

You can always run in mixed mode like we do, so if anyone manages to get withing 50 miles of us and talk in analog we hear them.

I was always kind of intrigued with those little incendiaries that you lit and set down and then launched themselves and started a line of fire. Sometimes they didn't always go in the direction predicted....

 

[n4njj]

I wouldn't really say the people that choose to operate on 52 are inconsiderate. They're allowed to be on that frequency just as much as you. A calling frequency needs somebody there to be monitoring. Unless people take shifts monitoring the frequency while talking on another, it's kind of pointless.

As with anything, if you don't want to listen to it, don't listen to it.

 

[SCPD]

I wouldn't really say the people that choose to operate on 52 are inconsiderate. They're allowed to be on that frequency just as much as you. A calling frequency needs somebody there to be monitoring. Unless people take shifts monitoring the frequency while talking on another, it's kind of pointless.

As with anything, if you don't want to listen to it, don't listen to it.

I don't expect anyone to monitor 52, but many people do. I don't know any reason that people would need to take shifts to monitor it. If a person is interested in working simplex 52 is a good start as far as calling and finding out if anyone is interested in making simplex contact. However, I've had people call me while they are on the road and see my antennas or license plate. Sometimes I just call out on it and find someone else in another vehicle that is monitoring it. We make contact and change to other simplex channels or a repeater. That is what the frequency is intended for.

It doesn't matter what logic (or lack thereof) is presented, digital and cross band remote bases do not follow the band plans and recommended use for the frequency. In my book, not following the coordination and plan is inconsiderate.


com501:

I've never heard or seen any type of ignition device that launches itself. The brand "Very" is put one brand of gun that shoots ignited petroleum jell, but it remains in the hands, like a pistol at all times. Being able to aim it is critical for the success of the ignition and for the safety of everyone at the operation. If vegetation is too dense to be walked or slopes too steep ignition far from the line is not possible. The least accurate way to ignite in these conditions is to throw lit fusees. An ignition gun is far better.

No matter what is used fire has to be lit some distance from the line so that the fire being lit next to the line is drawn away from the line. This ignition can be accomplished using fusees or a drip torch. Fusees are used if there isn't enough time to get fuel and drip torches to the line. Fusees are similar to road flares with three exceptions. First, they have a much longer flame when lit. Two, they have sleeves on the bottom so that each fusee can be attached to another. The flame length and ability to hook a few together allow a person to ignite fire on the ground without having to bend over too much. Third, each fusee is longer than a road flare, up to twice as long. This keeps them burning longer than road flares, allows more stability when hooking them together and reduces the amount of time spent igniting new ones.

The last method of ignition is a sled carried under a helicopter that drops jelled petroleum. The pilot can control the rate and shut off the release of the jelled balls of fire. Sometime the amount of lighting needing to be done is beyond the ability of people on the ground to do it or it is too dangerous to place crews nearby. Normally this method is used for burnouts and not for setting backfires, something that is very tricky, with timing being critical along with knowing what winds are doing at the surface.

 

[bill4long]

Some hams whine that they never hear anything on 52 and can't drum up a QSO. Other hams complain that some people talk too long on 52. Bottom line, operate the way you want to and let others do the same. It's not your job, nor does anyone have the authority, to be a "channel cop." People who ragchew on 52 or crossband on 52 are within their rights, like it or not. If you don't like it, you're only legal option is turn your VFO.

146.52 is NOT a "calling frequency" according to Part 97. That's just an ARRL's designation. It's a different world now. ARRL is behind the times (in so many ways.)

Deal with it.

Live and let live.

 

[Kirk]

For what it's worth, I'm quite active on digital (DMR) in California, and most of us make it a point to tell folks new to the mode NOT to run digital on 446.000 or 146.520. I think it's just common courtesy.

Also for what it's worth, I also tend to monitor 146.520 while driving on road trips. The idea of a national calling channel is a good one.

I guess I'm an old fart at this point. Been a ham for almost 25 years. I see band plans as a sort of "gentleman's agreement." But gentlemen are a dying breed.

 

[com501]

I listen on P25 NAC F7E, Trbo CC1, TG1, Slot 1 and CSQ on 146.52 so whatever mode you have, just bring it up.

 

[bill4long]

"I mean there is very little ham radio activity these days as it is. With the continuing bickering about the "remote base" being connected to 146.520, we run the risk of driving away another bunch of good hearted ham radio operators. Stop fighting innovation, the horse and buggy, rotary home phones, one hour photo mats are gone, a thing of the past. So lets get out there and chat it up on 146.520

Well put

 

[bill4long]

Oh please!!! Whine ***** and moan dept is closed.
First off the people that hang out on 146.520Mhz are LISTENING more than anyone realizes. travelers and guests to the Las Vegas areas and surrounding areas do drop in. NO ONE has ever been turned away, no one has been stepped on.People that ask for help/road assistance/directions are always helped out. The so called "Rag Chewing" stops for the duration.We dont need "Channel Cops" to tell us that 146.520 is RESERVED for calling only! It is SUGGESTED that people use it as a "Calling" channel and it does get used for that.But to use it for that ONLY just isn't going to happen anytime soon.We have a good time on 146.52Mhz. Now this is NOT a bunch of lowlife rednecks, but rather a highly intelligent group that has a lot of combined talent and information to share.To be honest, we ALL like to chat with the visitors. The high-tech hijinks will continue, the use of High Power remote bases WILL CONTINUE. It's Legal, it WORKS and enables some of us to hear weak handhelds and distant mobiles.If you are one of the people that need to use 146.520Mhz as a CALLING CHANNEL, drop in and do so! But we have ZERO intentions of reserving it for your personal use....

Again, well put

We do the same thing in my town. Some guys don't like it even though they NEVER participate or otherwise utilize the frequency. The funny thing is, the complainers are NEVER around to handle mobile travelers who are passing thru or anything else. It's us ragchewers that are there on 52, and more often than not, listening, when we're not talking, and will answer CQs and mobile travelers. And if we are in QSO, we leave plenty of time for a break-in, and ALWAYS give people a chance to get it, make a comment, make a call, join the QSO, or whatever. Without us 52 goes virtually UNUSED around here.

 

[n4njj]

that's the same way we handle it in buffalo. you can drive from boston to chicago on I90 and ONLY get your 52 call answered in buffalo.

 

[SCPD]

Again, well put

We do the same thing in my town. Some guys don't like it even though they NEVER participate or otherwise utilize the frequency. The funny thing is, the complainers are NEVER around to handle mobile travelers who are passing thru or anything else. It's us ragchewers that are there on 52, and more often than not, listening, when we're not talking, and will answer CQs and mobile travelers. And if we are in QSO, we leave plenty of time for a break-in, and ALWAYS give people a chance to get it, make a comment, make a call, join the QSO, or whatever. Without us 52 goes virtually UNUSED around here.

There are plenty of other simplex frequencies on the southern Nevada band plan that aren't being used also. Why not put a remote base on one of those. If I am traveling in an area and need some help I bring up one of the repeaters in the area. If no one answers on a repeater I move on to another one. The ARRL and local frequency coordinating organizations bring order to something that would otherwise be chaos. There are frequencies set aside for digital operation, some for simplex, some for repeaters and so forth. I don't understand why people are so willing to just throw all those away. A few simple rules or recommendations are not hard to follow and don't inconvenience anyone. Somehow people are saying that not following those recommendations is some sort of trendy or up to date way of operating. On HF there are frequencies set up for CW and it is pretty easy to find other frequencies for voice. The same is true for 2 meters, 1.25 meters and 70 cm. There are 2 meter frequencies for side band operations.

Not following band plans with remote bases on simplex frequencies, operating digital on frequencies other than those set up for such purposes and just throwing up repeaters on frequencies without coordination is the kind of chaos that took over CB radio. I guess people don't really care if ham radio takes on some characteristics of that service.

The attitude of "just put up with it" and "deal with it" sounds like something a noisy neighbor who is having a party all night says to someone next door who has children trying to sleep or has to get up early to get to a job. Laws and recommendations are really the codification of courtesy. That doesn't seem to be much of a consideration for increasing numbers of people now. I'm glad I live in a rural area where people are not rude to each other like they are in big cities (anything over 50,000 people in my perspective). By the way we are now taking the 395, I-40 and U.S. 93 route to the Phoenix area. I avoid the rude drivers of southern Nevada that way.

 

[SCPD]

that's the same way we handle it in buffalo. you can drive from boston to chicago on I90 and ONLY get your 52 call answered in buffalo.

That has not been my experience, even on remote highways. Everyone I talk with on 52 expects us to move to another simplex channel so we don't tie up the calling channel. I have a lot of fun talking simplex, just dialing up a repeater is too easy.

 

[n4njj]

That has not been my experience, even on remote highways. Everyone I talk with on 52 expects us to move to another simplex channel so we don't tie up the calling channel. I have a lot of fun talking simplex, just dialing up a repeater is too easy.

That's how it is in the northeast. I've got tons of recordings of passer-bys attesting to that. From your previous post, it doesn't sound like you even live in Las Vegas. Why are you so concerned?

 

[SCPD]

That's how it is in the northeast. I've got tons of recordings of passer-bys attesting to that. From your previous post, it doesn't sound like you even live in Las Vegas. Why are you so concerned?

I don't live in Las Vegas, but I travel through and stay at buddy's house there. I'm concerned about the future of the hobby and people following the band plans. I don't live in L.A. either, but used to travel there several times per year. I don't like that repeater there, W6NUT or whatever it is called now. I would like to see ham radio retain respect and professionalism. Doing your own thing and not following band plans because it is not illegal is a poor excuse, is not respectful or professional. Yes, professionalism, the hobby is only called amateur radio because we don't take payment for any services to the general public we might provide. I don't find much difference between this remote base and installing an uncoordinated repeater.

 

[ElroyJetson]

The ARRL should consider adopting a new national band plan for 2M and 70 cm that addresses such things as digital modes and repeater links.

I'd propose that specific frequencies be set aside for digital calling and others for repeater links, but keep 52 and 446.000 as analog, simplex, non-linked calling channels only.

The idea of a calling channel that everybody can use has merit. Why do something that reduces that simple, basic utility? That makes no sense.

Want to link up a repeater system to a simplex frequency? Fine. Use 55 or 58 or something. Same for digital usage. There probably are enough unused channels to go around for that to work.

 

[bill4long]

The attitude of "just put up with it" and "deal with it" sounds like something a noisy neighbor who is having a party all night says to someone next door who has children trying to sleep or has to get up early to get to a job.

That's not all I said. I gave you reasons why it is the reasonable thing to do. Without us ragchewers on 52 around here, nobody would use the frequency, and mobile operators would have nobody to talk to. Period.

 

[bryan_herbert]

I have this same problem here in Santa Clarita, CA. I used to monitor .520 religiously to assist hams along I-5 between the Newhall Pass and the Grapevine. I say used to because a few years ago someone with the AllStar Link Network placed a high power remote base station on top of Oat Mountain. I'd be sound asleep until someone would bring up the remote and start ragchewing until dawn. Oat Mountain peaks at 3,747 feet and covers a large portion of Southern California, from southern Kern County to central Orange County and western Riverside County. Its not hard to imagine the outcome of a stranded motorist or hiker in the forest calling for help when the remote base suddenly overpowers them.

I have 'good ears' & would be happy to monitor 146.520 for anyone with an emergency that doesn't have local repeaters programmed-in. But that's hard to do when some jackass with a fairly high-profile setup runs a 24/7 remote base on 146.520 and I'm stuck hearing knuckleheads rag-chewing on it.

I can pick-up that 146.520 remote base from over 100 miles away, despite several mountain ridgelines between it & I. That sort of use *clearly* is not at all what 146.520 is intended for. It'd be nice if hams --or the FCC-- treated it similar to VHF MArine channel 16. Funny to think that even US CB'ers had/have channel 9 set-aside (as worthless as it is today), yet hams don't.

You're right, Lance, you don't seem to have the proper faculties to participate in this thread. If you did, you & I would agree that a VHF remote base should be set-up on one of numerous 2meter simplex channels, not the national simplex calling channel, and you'd stop wasting time trying to inject the irrelevant argument about how important amateur repeaters & remote bases are.

 

[BJ_NORTON]

I imagine a stranded motorist or injured hiker would be grateful for any help he could he could whistle up. A station on top of a tall mountain with a large coverage area would probably provide better communication capabilities, than a low level station in the valley.

I love it--This thread is over three years old, and people are still trying to argue that the remote bases are a bad thing! Seriously though, Moderators, this thread has probably run its course over the years don't you think?