Meant to say heard more up Senator using my magmount.
2022 Arizona wildfire season
- Thread starter GlobalNorth
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Also… I heard the Sheriff dispatch say that VTAC 36 is activated. Are you hearing anything on that? Would that be a repeated freq or direct? Thx.
ecps92
Member
See page 37
VTAC 36 is a Repeater where VTAC 11 is simplex
VTAC 36 is a Repeater where VTAC 11 is simplex
KB7MIB
Member
It's a good idea to have all of these channels in your scanner, if possible. You never know what you might hear on any of them.
John
Peoria
National Interoperability (United States) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for National Interoperability (United States)
www.radioreference.com
John
Peoria
It's a good idea to have all of these channels in your scanner, if possible. You never know what you might hear on any of them.
National Interoperability (United States) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for National Interoperability (United States)www.radioreference.com
John
Peoria
Thx. Are you listening to AZfire tac 1? I’m on a hike with my handheld and hearing reports of the fire behavior getting bad.
I may be hearing (or mishearing) this as "Task Force 16", which I have as 151.13 PL 156.7 (note that YCSO Net 1 on Bill Williams Mountain is also on 151.13 but with a different PL.)
The frequency list ecps92 posted shows VTAC11 as 151.1375 with PL 156.7, so that's almost certainly what I am hearing and I need to update the frequency to it. YCSO's roadblocks in Walker are all on that frequency and I am hearing a lot of traffic on it.
I am not hearing any input frequency related to 151.1375 so they're likely running simplex. I see lots of variation in signal strength but no correlation to any other active frequencies (I'm also running a RTL-SDR as a spectrum analyzer for the entire VHF band to pick up anything close that's not in my scan list.)
Unexpected find: I'm hearing fuel trucks refueling the Crooks fire helicopters operating on either 151.5050 or 151.5125, both business itinerant frequencies (just one, but the signal is so strong here I can't tell which one.)
Given how strong the signals are here, I suspect they may be refueling the helicopters near the fire rather than at the airport.
Given how strong the signals are here, I suspect they may be refueling the helicopters near the fire rather than at the airport.
Picking up quite a bit of crew traffic on 171.0625, this looks like it may be a repeater output with the interoperability IR-2 frequency of 170.4125 as an input - the signal is much stronger than the IR-2 signals I'm hearing and consistent, so it might be a good target for those further away from the fire.
I've looked but haven't found 171.0625 or nearby frequencies on any list associated with NIFC/NIRSC/interoperability; in any case it's a new frequency to me.
I've looked but haven't found 171.0625 or nearby frequencies on any list associated with NIFC/NIRSC/interoperability; in any case it's a new frequency to me.
ecps92
Member
170.4125 would be paired with 165.9625 not 171.0625
I've not seen 171.0625 in many years [here in New England] it was a link for the UHF USPS network
are they both showing the same PL ??
I've not seen 171.0625 in many years [here in New England] it was a link for the UHF USPS network
are they both showing the same PL ??
I mentioned this specifically because it seems to be violating the pairing in the document posted and I can't find any references to a 171.0625 (or any 171.0xxx) frequency in any docs I've seen, which makes it new to me. I didn't expect to see it either.
They're both showing the same PL, 131.8, but that PL is being used on many channels here.
The input channel might be a mis-identification because NIRSC Cmd 3 is 170.425, just 12.5 KHz away and I'm seeing traffic on that as well, so maybe it's really 170.425 and not 170.4125 being repeated on 171.0625.
The signal strength on 170.425 is very high so it's possible it's getting captured on the adjacent channel. Unfortunately being so close to the action means the frequencies can be off a bit and still work.
I'm going to set up yet another scanner and try to see where exactly 171.0625's input really is coming from, but there's little doubt it (or something within a few KHz) is in use.
I've been able to directly confirm by listening to both simultaneously that 170.4125 is the input and 171.0625 is the output as I was able to listen to the same traffic (ground crews on the Tango line of the fire) on both, and also that 170.4125 is a being identified differently than the traffic on 170.425 (which is correctly ID'ing as Command 3, per the NIRSC band plan.)
ecps92
Member
Generally [my knowledge of reading 205's and some monitoring] that the PL is assigned per fire based on the Crews.
So each Fire may have a different PL
Could be they got it assigned to use as a link between Repeater [Wild Guess] - keep listening
So each Fire may have a different PL
Could be they got it assigned to use as a link between Repeater [Wild Guess] - keep listening
I think that's a very good guess, based on the traffic I think this is a link for a specific crew (or set of crews working a single fire line) back to home base. It's just the output frequency is throwing me since I can't find any docs on it. I'm seeing a few other stray frequencies that are unassigned pop up as well, if I get some time I'll try to compile a list of everything I've seen so far, but it'll be a long one. Not surprising given how many agencies + nearly 1000 people working this fire.
ecps92
Member
What PL, so if I find an IAP (205) I can compare the info
PL is 131.8
That's being used on all of the NIRSC of frequencies here, not only the 170.4125(IR2)/171.0625 pair but also:
166.725 (NIRSC Tac 4)
166.775 (NIRSC Tac 5)
168.050 (NIRSC Tac 1)
168.075 (NIRSC Cmd 3 Simplex)
168.200 (NIRSC Tac 2)
168.250 (NIRSC Tac 6)
170.425 (NIRSC Cmd 3)
I haven't seen any other PLs on these frequencies, however I did see these:
107.2 on VFIRE22 (154.265)
110.9 on NIFC flight following (168.65)
123.0 and 203.5 on Federal common 2 (168.6125)
156.7 on VTAC13/38 (158.7375)
173.8 on Federal common national (163.7125)
They brought in the incident team from California because AZ's was handling the NM fire.
I just met a crew from Nevada that was scouting my neighborhood.
ecps92
Member
Keep in-mind VFIRE 22 would be using 156.7, so the user with 107.2 is likely a local user, not the Interop.
So far the only IAP for AZ, I've seen so far is using 146.2 for their tones
So far the only IAP for AZ, I've seen so far is using 146.2 for their tones
Quite likely. There's activity on VTAC11/36 as well that I know is the sheriff, but they were clear they were using the incident frequencies and announce that often on the channel.
VFIRE24 is also active now with 107.2. It probably doesn't help that the local departments use 156.7 on their main dispatch frequencies as well.
The situation with 170.4125 and 170.425 is really driving me bonkers. At this point I think what's happening is due to poor coordination, the repeater with the 171.0625 output is re-transmitting either of those frequencies if they have the 131.8 PL tone due to FM capture effect.
For the PL tones, maybe one of the California IAPs is using 131.8 and perhaps that plan came over with the California crews.
Do remember that on large incidents such as this one that all the command repeaters are linked and you will hear the same traffic simultaneously on as many repeaters as they have. If you hear 170.4125 as the weaker signal, it may cause you to think it is an input, when in fact, it is another output on a distant peak you are not picking up as well. Remember that command traffic is the only traffic on repeaters and tactical is always simplex. So you don't hear "crews" on the command channel, only division supervisors, operations, branch directors, the IC.
It is NIFC policy that every fire pick one CTCSS tone from the National Standardized Tone List and use it on all frequencies, command and tactical. Tacs are not used on air to air and air to ground frequencies. This fire obviously used Tone 3 (131.8) for all it's frequency outputs. Since each repeater uses a different pair of frequencies Tone 3 can also be used as in input as well.
Also this is confusing "maybe one of the California IAP's is using 131.8." There is one Incident Action Plan that includes one communications plan for each incident. I don't know what you mean by saying a "California IAP." Someone from California does not bring their own IAP to an incident. The IAP is written by the Incident Command Teams' planning section after getting input from all the other sections on the incident. The Communications Unit Leader is responsible for the ICS form 205 (Communications Plan) and is using frequencies assigned by both the Geographical Area Command Center (Southwest Area in this case) with the approval of the communications function at NIFC in Boise, Idaho. They are the coordinators of what frequencies are being used on each incident when national frequencies are needed. There is a lot to this and I don't think you understand the big picture yet.
I meant to say tones are not used on air to air and air to ground frequencies. Sorry for the confusion.
Expanding on the ICS (Incident Command System explanation as far as it affects communications. This fire is being managed by a Type I team out of California. As soon as a Type I or Type II Incident Management Team (national teams) arrives they usually upgrade communications. So you might see one command repeater expanded to 2 or 5 or 9, depending on the comm needs of the incident, at that time and for any anticipated growth in the size of the incident. This team from California is using the same frequencies, tones, radio cache and policies used by national teams nationwide. This team is doing nothing different than a team from the eastern or southern regions of the country. I don't know what IMT was in charge prior to the arrival of this team. It may have been a local Type 3 team or a Type II from the Southwest (AZ and NM) Geographical Area Coordination Center (GACC). The decision on what type of team to send takes in local agency input, the GACC and NIFC. Potential for spread is a major factor, as well as the presence of structures, towns and other developments. Human life is the highest priority.
In a subsequent post I will explain the use of "temporarily surplus federal frequencies" used on large incidents. I don't have time right now.
Marshall Fire (Show Low, Pine Top, Vernon area)
34 12.525 N
109 50.627 W
167.175 A/G-34
118.950 A/A-1 AZ02 WMZ
34 12.525 N
109 50.627 W
167.175 A/G-34
118.950 A/A-1 AZ02 WMZ
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