XTL/XTS5000 ADP or KVL??

[lb2910]

So as I continue my journey down the rabbit hole of programming my radios, I was hoping some of you experienced good folks could provide some guidance on one of two options I'm looking at regarding secure comms.

If you look at my flashcode below, you'll see my model 1 has ADP enabled and my model 3 does not. My first option is finding a LEGAL flashkey to enable ADP on my model 3 via my CPS. Any idea on where to get this? I've called some dealers in my area and I get the same answer.. good luck since support for this stuff is way past its prime. I've read on some other forums that the ADP flashkey can go for like $10 since its so outdated. I just can't seem to find it.

My second option would be to buy a KVL3000 on EBay. While they aren't cheap, I'm willing to front the cost if its a better option in the long run. Given my flashcodes below with my two radios, are they even set up to take the keys via the KVL? And if so, which type?? DVL, DES, etc??

Couple of notes on this: I am in the process of getting the proper FCC license to incorporate secure comms. And lastly, I'm not looking to talk nuclear launch codes with my next door neighbor. Meaning, I just want some basic privacy. I know that ADP is outdated encryption but if I find the flashkey to upgrade my radio and its a fairly inexpensive option, I'm all over it like a cheap suit. That said, if going the KVL route gives me more options and my radios are set up for this option, then I'm not closed off to that option as well. Thanks to everyone in advance for any help. This forum has given me so much help on other issues and I can't thank everyone enough!!


MODEL 1
Platform: XTS5000
Flashcode: 100088-001E86-3

Q806: ASTRO IMBE Digital Operation
G996: Over the Air Provisioning
H38: SmartZone Systems Operation
Q947: APCO Packet Data Interface
Q387: Conventional Voting Scan
Q173: SmartZone Omnilink MultiZone Operation
Q182: Enhanced Radio Control Protocol
Q361: ASTRO 25 9600 Baud Trunking
Q446: Fireground Voice/Channel Announcement
Q667: ADP Software Encryption


MODEL 3
Platform: XTS5000
Flashcode: 120008-000102-5

Q806: ASTRO IMBE Digital Operation
Q52: Federal Government FPP
H38: SmartZone Systems Operation
Q53: FCC FPP And Radio Cloning
Q446: Fireground Voice/Channel Announcement

 

[rescue161]

To use a KVL, you'd need a UCM that has ADP. Does your 5000 have a UCM? If so, what algorithms are on it?

 

[lb2910]

yeah.. GOOD question.. HAHA.. so short of breaking the case open, how can I tell if I have a UCM and the algorithms that are on it?? Is this something I can bring up in CPS?

To use a KVL, you'd need a UCM that has ADP. Does your 5000 have a UCM? If so, what algorithms are on it?

 

[wgbecks]

If you have UCM's in both radios that support the desired algorithm, then take a look at KFDtool as a Keyloader.

Go to URL: duggerd/KFDtool to read up on this device that is an excellent and far less expensive alternative to purchasing a KVL equipped with the required algo(s). This is a fairly new product but is solid and supports a number of algo's. I purchased mine late last fall and it's solid and works perfectly. Carefully read all of the information presented on the GitHub page as the software runs on a Windows PC and that could be subject to unauthorized access to the keys being loaded.

There's also a link on the KFDtool GitHub page that takes you directly to the online store.

 

[kf8yk]

so short of breaking the case open, how can I tell if I have a UCM and the algorithms that are on it?

Assuming you have something other than a model 1 XTS, put the radio into test mode if it's secure equipped the algos will be listed on the display with a KG prefix (KG1, KG2, etc.)

 

[Giddyuptd]

Don't bother with a kvl.

KFDtool, LLC

KFDtool, LLC

store.flcomputerinc.com

duggerd/KFDtool

Open Source P25 KFD (Key Fill Device/Keyloader). Contribute to duggerd/KFDtool development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[lb2910]

So in light of all this new info, how would I go about getting my Model 3 flashed to do ADP??? I'm finding nothing online and through my local dealers to get a new flash upgrade for ADP... Any ideas???

 

[rescue161]

Motorola is not going to sell you a flash upgrade on a non-supported radio and finding someone that has a flashkey (with flashes remaining) that has your model number and desired flashes (current and new) is going to be almost impossible. The radio can be upgraded, but only with tools not to be mentioned here.

Also, to put the radio into test mode, you have to press the bottom side button 5 times directly after you power on the radio. You have to wait for the self test to complete and then hit the bottom button 5 times. You'll see the model, flash, serial, etc and then the UCM with all of the algorithms. If the data is scrolling too fast, you can press the left arrow key and it will hold on the current screen. Pressing the right arrow key will start the auto-advance again.

 

[wgbecks]

So in light of all this new info, how would I go about getting my Model 3 flashed to do ADP??? I'm finding nothing online and through my local dealers to get a new flash upgrade for ADP... Any ideas???

ADP is generally implemented in software (Flash Feature) and does not require a UCM. However, I believe that ADP can also be implemented in hardware if your have a UCM that supports it. You might try contacting an on-line dealer to purchase a I-Button for the desired flashcode upgrade if you can't find a local Motorola shop that's willing to do the work. It really shouldn't matter that the radio is a discontinued product as there are a ton of them still in service.

 

[lb2910]

Motorola is not going to sell you a flash upgrade on a non-supported radio and finding someone that has a flashkey (with flashes remaining) that has your model number and desired flashes (current and new) is going to be almost impossible. The radio can be upgraded, but only with tools not to be mentioned here.

Also, to put the radio into test mode, you have to press the bottom side button 5 times directly after you power on the radio. You have to wait for the self test to complete and then hit the bottom button 5 times. You'll see the model, flash, serial, etc and then the UCM with all of the algorithms. If the data is scrolling too fast, you can press the left arrow key and it will hold on the current screen. Pressing the right arrow key will start the auto-advance again.

COOL.. so I did the test on my Model 3 and I have KG1 DES-OFB and KG2 DES-XL. So how do I find out if I have a module on my Model 1 without a screen??

 

[rescue161]

Take the radio apart. You may see the UCM, but if it has been upgraded in the past, it may have algorithms that are not on the original label. Algorithms can be added via a KVL with the appropriate card. Or, you can buy UCM's on Ebay that have all of the algorithms already loaded, including ADP. If you go the KVL or KFDTool route, you have to program the radio to use "hardware" encryption.

Flash keys are not generated by dealers and must be ordered through Motorola. Being that the radio was end-of-life a long time ago (2013) and the last date of service was 31 Dec 2018, Motorola has no obligation to service nor will they service this radio or sell upgrades for this radio. They will be glad to sell you an APX NEXT though.

 

[lb2910]

ADP is generally implemented in software (Flash Feature) and does not require a UCM. However, I believe that ADP can also be implemented in hardware if your have a UCM that supports it. You might try contacting an on-line dealer to purchase a I-Button for the desired flashcode upgrade if you can't find a local Motorola shop that's willing to do the work. It really shouldn't matter that the radio is a discontinued product as there are a ton of them still in service.

Thanks for the info wgbecks.. You and Rescue161 are completely correct. The issue is finding someone or a dealer that has the button-drive that has flashes remaining on a model of radio that is way past its EOL. That said, I did just confirm that my Model 3 (the one without ADP enabled) does have the UCM hardware installed and is functioning properly. You mentioned that ADP can be implemented if I have the UCM. Any idea how to do that? When I read the radio into CPS, and go to the Secure config window, there is Hardware already checked but the ADP is not able to be checked. I just get the "read only" icon when I hover over it.

 

[lb2910]

Take the radio apart. You may see the UCM, but if it has been upgraded in the past, it may have algorithms that are not on the original label. Algorithms can be added via a KVL with the appropriate card. Or, you can buy UCM's on Ebay that have all of the algorithms already loaded, including ADP. If you go the KVL or KFDTool route, you have to program the radio to use "hardware" encryption.

Flash keys are not generated by dealers and must be ordered through Motorola. Being that the radio was end-of-life a long time ago (2013) and the last date of service was 31 Dec 2018, Motorola has no obligation to service nor will they service this radio or sell upgrades for this radio. They will be glad to sell you an APX NEXT though.

HAHA.. right?? I'm sure they'll be more than happy to put me into a nice top of the line APX!!! I have to admit, half the fun of this new hobby of mine is learning how to still make an already solid radio work the way I want despite it being past its EOL. Equally as fun is the fact that this forum is populated by really skilled and professional folks that are willing to help a novice like me get the right information. I definitely picked the right forum to become a member of for sure! Hats off to all of you that have given me great help and advice. So far, every bit of guidance I've gotten has been spot on!!! Well done to all of you!!!!

 

[lb2910]

I put my XTS5000 model 1 on CPS and went to the security config window. I was able to check the hardware option and it held without resetting to ADP. Can I assume that it has the UCM without having to take it apart? Or is this a normal thing whether it has the UCM or not?

UPDATE!! I went to the listing that I got my radio from and here is a snippet of the description....

Key Loader Encryption Keying
Tamper protected volatile or non volatile memory Key Storage
Supported Encryption Algorithms ADP, AES, DES, DES-XL and DES-OFB, DVP-XL, DVI-XL
Capable of storing 1024 keys Encryption Keys per Radio Module.
Programmable for 48 common Key Reference (CKR) or 16 Physical Identifier (PID)

So I'm good if I want to go the keyloader route yes???

 

[kf8yk]

UPDATE!! I went to the listing that I got my radio from and here is a snippet of the description....

I wouldn't count on an internet auction site listing to be accurate. Sellers often just cut & paste descriptions from product brochures or other listings with similar looking items.

Open up that radio & see if it even has a UCM. There should be a part number sticker on the UCM to reference or swap it with your model 3 & read it out in test mode again.

 

[BigLebowski]

This is easier than you are making it.

Read your Model 1 with CPS and look at your "Versioning" screen at the top of the tree. If there is a revision listed after "UCM:" such as R05.07.05, then it has a UCM. If ADP is in the flash, it probably doesn't have one.

Assuming your Model 1 has ADP and your Model 2 has DES, you need to pick one and stay with it. You will either have to "add" ADP to the Model 2 by unmentionable methods or buy a DES UCM (~$20) for the Model 1 and install it. If you go the DES route you will need a keyloader of some type, either KFDTool or a KVL3000. Keyloaders and accessories are very expensive. I would recommend that you find someone that can add ADP and be done with it.

Oh, and you'll have to properly program the radios to use ADP.

 

[lb2910]

Well, I took the Model 1 apart and nope.. no UCM... $!%@$#!!! HAHA.. confirmed.. So the listing was just as kf8yk said.. cut and paste with no regard to what is actually in the radio. So back to the decision of finding someone to put ADP on my Model 1 or I get a UCM to put in and then get a keyloader... UGH... Finding someone that can add ADP seems to be the logical choice but I have no more places to go to find it... I'll keep looking.. thanks for all the great help everyone!!!!

 

[Giddyuptd]

There was a few listing recently on flea bay for the 5000 a few ucms. Not too steep.

If you get one of those and the open source key filler device which I highly recommend you'll be good to go.

 

[lb2910]

There was a few listing recently on flea bay for the 5000 a few ucms. Not too steep.

If you get one of those and the open source key filler device which I highly recommend you'll be good to go.

Thanks William!!! So if I do wind up having to go the UCM route.. why is the open source key filler (KFDtool) so much more preferred over the KVL3000.. I found a couple of KVL's on flea bay for under $300 w/charger and everything. The KFDtool would run almost as much with the filler, cables, etc. Just wondering why its preferred so much over the KVL if I can find one around the same price.. thanks for all the help!!!!

 

[rescue161]

Those KVL are probably cheap because they either 1) don't work, 2) are missing algorithms or 3) only have either ASN or Astro mode and not both.