Marconi must have been a Baseball fan.
AM is it really dead?
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I've just read through the entire thread here and what I see as a glaring omission is that the noise from EV's, switchmode power supplies, computers/networks etc. interfering with radio broadcasts is literally illegal. That the relevant agencies didn't consider this impotant enough to nip this in the bud early on (plasma TV's wiping out the AM band and much more 100 yards away comes to mind) has led to where we are now. I work for a manufacturer of professional (film, TV, broadcast etc) wireless products and the same problem is occurring even up in the UHF bands - poorly/cheaply designed products not approved for use in North America have becom very popular, either for technological or cost-cutting purposes. One good thing about the import tariffs is that it should cut down on the flood of such products.. Europe seems to be doing much better keeping this in check.
Excellent point. It's why car manufacturers simply want to omit the AM band from car radios.
Those type-accepted labels used to state (paraphrasing) this device must not cause interference to other devices - discontinue use until the interference is resolved. There are just so many of these devices in use that getting it under control is virtually impossible. The FCC did not have the resources to keep up with the flood of cheap, imported electronics.
It's hard to say what impact, if any, import tariffs will have.
As for AM radio, there are so few listening to radio from home these days and they are not even aware of the interference. It's primarily hobbyists such as ourselves that notice it, and the only real viable option is to mitigate the noise sources that we can control.
Agree 100%. I wrote a long post about this but it never made it through moderation. Sigh, new user blues.
Anyway, my simple log cabin, with no visible electronics, is completely trashed with astounding RF noise, and, not exaggerating, not hyperbole: it would actually cost thousands of dollars to try to get rid of it all. It is coming from everything, including the light bulbs. Am I supposed to buy black market illegal incandescent bulbs and a few thousand dollars of linear power supplies and heat with wood only, (even my HVAC screams RF)? No AC? No internet? No security cameras?
Just about everything in my entire life, that is connected to the grid screams RF interference. Its easier to list the things that don't: Water heater, 40 year old electric cooktop and oven... I don't think the fridge makes much but I haven't scanned it... hmm. Oh and some LED strip lights, that mercifully have linear power supplies. A string of old incandescent Christmas lights. Two old tube radios that need to be recapped. That's it.
Everything else makes noise. AM and SW are impossible t listen to unless I get at least 50 feet away from the cabin. Even FM has a lot of noise on it, which years ago I would have said wasn't possible.
When I rebuilt this place, I went with highest energy efficiency in electrics. It worked, my electric bill is negligible. But it came at the cost of the highest RF noise I've ever experienced.
SigmaDelta
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2018
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- 11
Mmm, not really I'm afraid. Solar inverters and PLC (Homeplug) have been a plague. Many urban areas have become pulloted with very high QRM levels up to VHF and higher. Many HF hams totally depend on WebSDRs. Just until recently government agencies have finally found out their failing digital telecom had become affected by the QRM hams have been complaining about for years. Hams were not taken seriously ofcourse. Solar companies (inverters & optimizers) are now under higher investigation and during important/sensitive events solar installations are even demanded to shut down for security reasons. I believe some awareness is finally finding some ground, but still a long way to go...
Wow... your situation sounds terrible. I live not too far from DC, and I can get plenty of AM stations here, I did have to move my clock radio (for very casual listening) about 8 feet from my three computers, and (6) 100 watt LED lights, to make AM listenable.
When I eventually get a home that is my own, I plan on hunting down every source of noise and KILLING it (the noise, not the item). Not just items that are interferring with things, but just out of general principles. It should keep me occupied for awhile.
Thanks
Joel
I'm *extremely rural* so all AM/FM stations are quite weak. With a "pretty ok" receiver like the PL880 and a good antenna, if I'm outside away from the all switching power supply RF noise, reception is decent. The plan *was* to see if I wanted to get back into broadcast reception, and if so, then to somehow rig up outdoor antennas (with coax? not sure, didn't get that far and worried about lightning!) and then have a NICE analog receiver indoors, connected to the outdoor antennas. Maybe the Sangean WR-12 and some additional SW receiver, probably vintage since no one makes an true analog tabletop SW any more.
But after a few days of actually scanning the bands... I was so disappointed at how laughably terrible radio is now. I figured I must not be the only one, which led me to here. So here we are. Not going to even bother commenting much on how SW bands just empty now. I remember there were dozens and dozens of SW stations at all hours. Now hardly anything. I Imagine there are threads about that elsewhere.
MikeinDestin
Member
I think if I was in your situation, and couldn't play radio, or if taking a portable outside wasn't an option, I'd cut the main breaker for the entire house, even if for just a little while. That way you could enjoy some radio. I'm in the top floor of an apartment, and there is some noise always, at least during daytime. Night however is much better. On some frequencies I get hetrodynes, but fortunately it's not a big problem. Ironically the biggest rfi source is Eglin AFB. They have an advanced radar they run a few times per week. When it's on, it wipes everything out on AM and SW, for an hour from whenever it starts. Fortunately they usually use it in the early PM, before the dx gets really good. But it's not every night. I do get some attenuation from different rooms, but the kitchen is best for reception. So my radios are on the countertop! It's a big counter with plenty of room. Most homes and apartments have at least one good spot for reception, same with my last apartment.
bill4long
Member
Listen to AM if you want. Or don't.
I have done that!!!
Several times. I LOVE turning the power off. All the RF noise instantly gone, like it is 1995 again.
It's not a long term sustainable solution obviously. Also after switching back on, I have to run around resetting stuff, kinda of a pain,
Yeah. I guess I'm being a big complainer. I just wanted to vent, now that I look back on it all, and no one in real life cares at all. Everyone just stares at their phones now. Probably everone in the FCC in charge of these decisions doesn't care either, and they just stare at their phones all day too.
Even in highly professional workplaces, it's becoming acceptable for everyone to just stare at their phones all day, which shocks me, but whatever.
If it's all coming from your house, maybe you CAN do something to fix it (One breaker at a time), (and maybe write a book about it, I'm sure it would be popular ! ! )I have done that!!!
Several times. I LOVE turning the power off. All the RF noise instantly gone, like it is 1995 again.
It's not a long term sustainable solution obviously. Also after switching back on, I have to run around resetting stuff, kinda of a pain,
Yeah. I guess I'm being a big complainer. I just wanted to vent, now that I look back on it all, and no one in real life cares at all. Everyone just stares at their phones now. Probably everone in the FCC in charge of these decisions doesn't care either, and they just stare at their phones all day too.
Even in highly professional workplaces, it's becoming acceptable for everyone to just stare at their phones all day, which shocks me, but whatever.
As I said, once I get my own home, I'm going to be trying to do the same thing.
Ok, so there is a little self interest here, if you fix the problems with your house, and share what you do here, then I can take advantage of it and simplify what I want to do.
Thanks
Joel
Another option would be to walk around with a battery-operated radio and find the worst offenders. Often, it is coffee makers, TV's, microwaves, cable boxes etc that produce the most RF noise. Those can be unplugged or switched off if connected to an outlet strip. You won't eliminate every source, but greatly reducing might be sufficient (and without shutting off power completely).
Yup... Device by device would be another option.
A lot of people seem to be interested in ferrite chokes to reduce noise.
I don't know how well it works, but there is also a design from the ARRL a long time ago to keep noise from being carried over a persons house wiring. I think they called it a brick wall 60 hz filter, or something like that.
Thanks
Joel
A lot of people seem to be interested in ferrite chokes to reduce noise.
I don't know how well it works, but there is also a design from the ARRL a long time ago to keep noise from being carried over a persons house wiring. I think they called it a brick wall 60 hz filter, or something like that.
Thanks
Joel
Thats what I did. 30+ smart lightbulbs (can't just turn them off, need to always be powered), over a dozen (switching power supply USB) wall warts powering stuff I "need," LED strobe light in the garage needs to stay on - those are the worst offenders. Probably the smart plugs are loud too, I don't remember. If someone could point me to RFquiet linear USB wall warts less than $50 each, I could consider it. The light bulbs? They were $40-50 each and let me turn large areas on and off with a single switch, or by voice. Sure I could run around and switch things off individually... If I wanted to hear AM/SW again. But I don't.
Brings me back to the title of this thread: AM/SW are shadows of what they were in terms of content, or number of stations, so I may as well not bother, and just go back to streaming. To answer the question of the thread title: yes, AM is dead. If someone motivated, and technologically astute, AND with romantic memories of how great AM/SW could be, gives up, do you really think the "average Jane" is going to start listening to AM radio? Never going to happen. Someone buys a radio or turns on the old one they found in the closet, it goes BBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZ everywhere except the one station that blasts through the static with Levin screeching and screeching. Nope. Dead.
Lots of things that were great until the 2000s, are gone, and never coming back. Radio is one of them. When Boomers and Early GenX are gone, radio goes with them. Starlink, and the copies of Starlink coming online soon, are the last nails. 20 years max before AM is sold off, probably only 10-15 though. FM shortly therafter. SW I have no idea, but it is a lot of bandwidth that for all practical purposes, for 99+% of the world, is entirely useless. The only worthwhile station I found on SW is WWV. Plan accordingly.
ETA: Oh yeah, the WISP equipment. Screams RF noise. If I turn that off, no internet and no phone service. Not happening.
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That is the general consensus in this thread.. AM radio is certainly on the ropes. How long until it is gone is hard to say, and I'm not going to try to guess. In Europe, stations are going off the air rather quickly. There seems to be more interest in saving AM radio here vs the rest of the world.
I've been reading through back issues of Popular Communications archived online. In one issue from 1989, the editor wrote a piece about the current state of radio and how AM had lost so much of its audience to FM radio. Over 35 years ago, there were clear signs AM was in trouble. Political talk radio / Rush Limbaugh, etc did bring listeners back to the band. That is the format that still dominates today, followed by sports talk and religion.
I live in a noisy RF environment also, but still manage to log distant AM and SW stations. If you want to listen, you still can.
I agree, the number of stations and the content is not what it was. Funny that you mention Levin - when tuning for distant AM stations, I'll find him at least 3 or 4 spots on the dial.
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Some European countries have even been moving away from analog FM broadcast as well.
But there's one big difference between Europe and the US, and actually a big difference between the east coast and the Western USA. Sheer size of the area to cover. Most parts of Europe and the Eastern US are pretty densely populated, and a well placed FM broadcast station can easily reach millions.
Get out in the Intermountain West and a well placed FM station might reach a few thousand at best. Big power AM with good antenna systems are still relied upon in some areas. While I'm sure that won't last forever, some of these sparsely populated areas are often also low income, so unless someone subsidizes satellite radio, better cellular, or lots of FM translators, there's no easy replacement. As long as there is no easy replacement for that, advertising will still be profitable.
There's still places I work and travel where there's little to nothing in the way of FM broadcast and AM stations are the only option.
And there's still quite a few that prefer local programming. As the larger stations have been gobbled up and networked, the smaller community stations have picked up quite a bit of listeners. I've got a few small local FM stations that serve pretty small areas, but have a pretty good listener base.
I cannot understand how anyone, anyone at all, can listen to that. What audience can a noise like that have? I don't mean the political content. I mean the voice itself. I mean the screeching and whining and yelling and just awful sneering tone in the voice. It literally makes my hairs stand up, like if a vicious dog were attacking me. It upsets my dog! Fight or flight response.
Art Bell... all the greats really - they had warm, friendly, wonderful tone and pacing. Even Brother Stair had a fun, made for radio delivery, regardless of content.
But Levin screech? Who is the audience that can withstand that voice? Tone deaf people who enjoy being yelled at by their boss? Maybe the audience is very old men with bad hearing and the sound is the only thing that makes it through the hearing aid? Maybe don't even need a hearing aid.
Here is interesting: I have Levin running 24/7, loud, in my detached garage, because after battling mice in the garage for years, it is the only thing that made them go away. I have not seen a single mouse, or mouse sign, since starting up the Levin. I have a remote switch connected to it, so I can switch off the voice from the house before I go in the garage because I can't stand to hear it for even the few seconds to manually walk over and hit the switch.
Maybe the Levin audience is people with mice issues?
The replacement is phones and subscriptions . The poorest of the poor have one, and streaming subscriptions are one of the many reasons they are poor. Subscription sellers *target* low income. "Just one low monthly fee." I have met countless people that could not afford a car, or tires if they had one, but subscribe to Spotify.
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Right, but coverage becomes the challenge. Cellular carriers only want coverage in areas that make them a profit.
My wife has XM/Sirius in her truck (her truck, her choice), and I get the XM/Sirius app on my phone, so I can always stream that. But due to coverage issues in some of the areas I frequent, it's not useful for casual listening. AM or some stored media is my only option sometimes.
Yeah, that's definitely true. I have no cell coverage where I live, and agree the West, especially the mountains, have huge holes. I can drive more than an hour without cell coverage frequently. Also ATT sucks lol.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people want more cell towers to fix that. That is where they want the money to go. Not to keep analog radio going, and certainly not to expand analog radio coverage. Maybe the carriers don't want to do it, but we subsidize them with $billions to supposedly encourage them to do it... somehow they seem to find ways to just keep the money and not put up the towers though.
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