It's not that big a deal. If you're offended, I'm sorry. If it's that important to you, you need to re-arrange your priorities. After you indicated a license, I tried to walk away and that's what I'm doing again. Life's too short for this crap.
Amateur TV Equipment…
- Thread starter BMDaug
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BMDaug
I am licensed…
Thanks for the apology and thanks for your lifetime of service to your community and for your continued service in SAR. SAR is a big deal to me here in Colorado. It’s just so easy on the internet to forget we are all talking to other humans! Have a great week!!
-Brian
W8HDU
Member
There's an ITS Model 830A analog transmitter on channel 25 (536-542 MHz) in Lima, OH that needs a home. As I recall, it's 1 kW TPO.
There is also an Axcera model LU-500 digital transmitter, with dual 8VSB exciters, 4 power amps, on channel 35 (596-602 MHz) but it's 500 watts TPO, and the owner needs $1,500 for it.
Both are single cabinet transmitters, and I think 2-phase.
paulears
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
- Messages
- 869
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The 905 looks like a cute radio with a lot of potential. I can see one in my future.
It is definitely a special niche-filling transceiver; I envisage using one from some of the mountain tops that surround me.
Then I saw this price- €99,999.99....that kind'a shocked me, until I looked closer and realized its not yet on the market.
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Don't let the trolls get to you Daug-- this, coming from one who gets frequent grief in here- I just consider their motivations and then let it slide
Lauri
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The 905 looks like a cute radio with a lot of potential. I can see one in my future.
It is definitely a special niche-filling transceiver; I envisage using one from some of the mountain tops that surround me.
Then I saw this price- €99,999.99....that kind'a shocked me, until I looked closer and realized its not yet on the market.
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Don't let the trolls get to you Daug-- this, coming from one who gets frequent grief in here- I just consider their motivations and then let it slide
Lauri
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I don't think it will be analog. Icom has been quietly mentioning that D-STAR has the ability to send images, so my assumption is that the "ATV" capability in this radio is a result of it's D-STAR mode.
The discussion of whether or not the OP has an amateur radio license stops now. The fact has been established.
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I would bet that the IC-905 ATV capability is analog. It would be weird if it was not that. As to sending/receiving images, that would probably still be handled via digital (DV) like it is with the Kenwood D74A, Icom IC-705, 9700 and whatever else. Yeah, this is going to be interesting.
Yes, I see in the brochure that came out of the Tokyo Ham Fair where it says "ATV (Amateur TV) in the analog FM mode".
The Icom IC-9700, IC-705, and ID-52 can send pictures using D-STAR.
Here's a YouTube video showing how photos can be passed between IC-9700s...over D-STAR:
BMDaug
I am licensed…
So thanks for the additional resources everyone! I’ve been thinking about cool ways to run an ATV net and thought I’d run my idea by the group… seems like it could be cool to use separate transmitters and receivers and have net control TX on one channel and have everyone else on a second channel. Net control could have a Picture in Picture setup so that whatever was received on the common channel would appear in the PIP in the corner. It would be a lot like taking callers on a radio show. The final program output for the net is always live and the folks checking in appear on screen one after another. Everyone could watch the final output to see net control and each participant. It would look great and even unlicensed folks could watch the program!
Also, it’s my understanding that absolutely no music can be transmitted even if it’s a licensed ham performing an original song live on camera. I know that you can’t play commercial music on any ham band any time and I totally get that, but it’s sort of a bummer that a ham can’t perform original content live because as a studio guy, I’d love to do a net that features some local hams sharing their songs live on the air. Not complaining or looking to skirt legality, just looking for clarification about broadcast of music. No music from any source no matter what right?
-B
Also, it’s my understanding that absolutely no music can be transmitted even if it’s a licensed ham performing an original song live on camera. I know that you can’t play commercial music on any ham band any time and I totally get that, but it’s sort of a bummer that a ham can’t perform original content live because as a studio guy, I’d love to do a net that features some local hams sharing their songs live on the air. Not complaining or looking to skirt legality, just looking for clarification about broadcast of music. No music from any source no matter what right?
-B
I believe that your statement should stop right there.
§ 97.113 Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
(4) Music using a phone emission [which I believe is considered to be any form of voice data] except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section...
The exception appears in § 97.113 (c) where incidental music originating from a manned spacecraft is allowed.
I suppose that there's an argument to be made that an image transmission is different from a phone transmission so the music prohibition in § 97.113 (a)(4) doesn't apply. That would be a question for the FCC and not random people on the Internet.
BMDaug
I am licensed…
Thanks for the reply. I thought someone may have gone down this road with the FCC in the past so I figured I’d ask. I’m not looking for a bunch of different interpretations of what a phone emission is, along with subsequent arguments, but if someone has had direct experience with this, please chime in!
I’ve never contacted the FCC directly but I suppose calling their toll free number on Tuesday is the easiest… Like I said, I’m trying to make sure I understand the regulations and that I’m staying above board. A direct answer from the FCC would indeed be definitive!
-B
If the ATV is analog, the music would be broadcast as good ole FM. Not sure how they would consider DTV with it being multiplexed.
- Joined
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- 869
This was a topic that goes way back. And like so many of the rules that apply to ham radio today, technology as outstripped the regulations.
I throw this out as an example--- I play with radars............
Pulse
If you read over the rules, "pulse" is allowed, but no parameters are defined. I had a lot of fun trying to get a definition of what was legal from a local FCC Field Office. In the end they basically said as long as no one complains just "do your thing...we know who you are and where to come get you."
But they would not define ham radio "pulse" for me.
The topic of music as been batted around for a long time--- since the first ham played with a Victrola and his AM modulated oscillator.
And unless someone can correct me, "music" by definition is what can be easily received by standard reception techniques---ie: a standard analog signal format. But these rules pre-date the digital age.
An example- MPEG-4 doesn't sound like music at all. And on frequencies that allow the bandwidth, should not qualify as a 'music broadcast' under the old 1930's rules.
In fact I know amateurs that exchange digital files that include music.
What's the saying ?
"Its easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission...."
emptor caveat
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oh geeez.... I guess I need to say this;
"The above is for entertainment and educational purposes only and not to be considered legal advice.....etc etc.."
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I throw this out as an example--- I play with radars............
Pulse
If you read over the rules, "pulse" is allowed, but no parameters are defined. I had a lot of fun trying to get a definition of what was legal from a local FCC Field Office. In the end they basically said as long as no one complains just "do your thing...we know who you are and where to come get you."
But they would not define ham radio "pulse" for me.
The topic of music as been batted around for a long time--- since the first ham played with a Victrola and his AM modulated oscillator.
And unless someone can correct me, "music" by definition is what can be easily received by standard reception techniques---ie: a standard analog signal format. But these rules pre-date the digital age.
An example- MPEG-4 doesn't sound like music at all. And on frequencies that allow the bandwidth, should not qualify as a 'music broadcast' under the old 1930's rules.
In fact I know amateurs that exchange digital files that include music.
What's the saying ?
"Its easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission...."
emptor caveat
____________________________________________________________________________
oh geeez.... I guess I need to say this;
"The above is for entertainment and educational purposes only and not to be considered legal advice.....etc etc.."
.
BMDaug
I am licensed…
Ya so that’s sort of the answer I’m expecting to get… DATV is definitely not a voice mode and you’re right about sending an audio file via digital mode. Definitely outpacing the regs on that one! I think the spirit of the reg is to avoid the idea of a broadcast, pirate radio style.
The use case I laid out is totally in the spirit of two way, net style communications, where those with like interests come together to share with one another. Another major issue with music is copyright and I get the FCC not wanting to have to deal with that, but if it’s an original work performed live, copyright isn’t an issue either!
We will see what they have to say after the long weekend…
-B
kg4ehv
Member
I just picked up a receive adapter for the ic-r7000 and a crt tv. Now to find the needle in the haystack.
During the recent UHF television "repack" where lots of TV stations moved frequencies and bought new equipment I ended up with a 1kW UHF agile TV transmitter. Its power amp was rated 474 to 806MHz or similar but it worked fine down to at least 440MHz and would put out a lot more than 1kW saturated. I didn't know how big it was when I committed to taking it and one day this 7ft high 600lb rack showed up and it took 3 people to get it in the garage.
It was so big and heavy I couldn't move around the garage to play with it so it sat for about a year with the wifee asking when is this thing going away on a daily basis. I had some ideas for amateur TV that never panned out so I stuck it on eBay and someone in another country bought it and paid a fortune to haul it away.
Before the 1kW thing I had several old PC Electronics UHF and 900 transmitters and downconverters that only got used on my test bench then I traded them away. Many UHF analog and digital modulators, especially for the cable TV market cover the UHF amateur TV frequencies and would have been a great exciter for my 1kW station but that's all behind me now and I'm still married, which I prefer over a big amateur TV project.
It was so big and heavy I couldn't move around the garage to play with it so it sat for about a year with the wifee asking when is this thing going away on a daily basis. I had some ideas for amateur TV that never panned out so I stuck it on eBay and someone in another country bought it and paid a fortune to haul it away.
Before the 1kW thing I had several old PC Electronics UHF and 900 transmitters and downconverters that only got used on my test bench then I traded them away. Many UHF analog and digital modulators, especially for the cable TV market cover the UHF amateur TV frequencies and would have been a great exciter for my 1kW station but that's all behind me now and I'm still married, which I prefer over a big amateur TV project.
W8HDU
Member
I know where there is a 1kw analog TV transmitter, presently on channel 25, which is free for that taking.
If you want to severely degrade your marriage this is a perfect opportunity to do so. Just get this transmitter and stick it in your garage for awhile, like a year.
W8HDU
Member
Could be worse. The 1kw is one 6' rack. I know a fellow who took home a three cabinet Collins AM rig, and to enjoy his hobby, spent money to make a 40' x 40' shack in the back yard. According to a mutual friend, he has a kitchenette and single bed in there, which tells me that is his "dog house" when the little lady is not happy.
bill4long
Member
(5) Phone. Speech and other sound emissions having designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2 or 3 as the
second symbol; E as the third symbol. Also speech emissions having B as the first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol; E as the
third symbol.
(4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section.
If you're transmitting audio over an allowed type of modulation with the third designator E, that means it is audio intended to be heard by humans in realtime. That means it is "phone." Which means music is not allowed over that transmission on Amateur Radio.
A file containing audio information transmitted over a data channel is not intended to be heard in real time so would not be considered to be phone.
ITU approved designators can be found here:
en.wikipedia.org
second symbol; E as the third symbol. Also speech emissions having B as the first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol; E as the
third symbol.
(4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section.
If you're transmitting audio over an allowed type of modulation with the third designator E, that means it is audio intended to be heard by humans in realtime. That means it is "phone." Which means music is not allowed over that transmission on Amateur Radio.
A file containing audio information transmitted over a data channel is not intended to be heard in real time so would not be considered to be phone.
ITU approved designators can be found here:
Types of radio emissions - Wikipedia
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