AMR LifeCom in Hot Water

[wskrayen]

I'm not sure where Burch got the idea that AMR Lifecom had an up to data mapping database, they weren't able to locate a call location the second day of their contract. They had to call Stockton Fire, for the location and directions before they dispatched the medic unit. The engine had been on scene for about 20 mins. The same thing had happened earlier in the day for a medical aid on the same street. About the same time, another Engine was considering transport their patient in the the engine, because the AMR medic wasn't on scene, and it had been longer then 20 mins and the patient was in bad shape.

Stockton does not have E911 (either Phase I or II) yet, all cell calls go to the CHP. Which would explain the calls from Granite Bay, Oakdale and Turlock, that Lifecom dispatched Stockton Fire to. Thank heavens I live in Stockton, if I call 911 with a fire or Medical Aid, Stockton Fire is going to handle it directly with out going through Lifecom.

So far since AMR took over county EMS dispatch and Fire dispatch for most of the county, calls sent to the wrong district, automatic aid not dispatched on structure fire, delayed transfers to Stockton Fire, and borderline calls where both agencies were not notified. The biggest thing I have noticed is there seems to be a lack of details on many of the calls.

OK now I'm done ranting.

I would suggest keeping the seven digit number for your PSAP (or PSAPs on your commute) handy whether or not you are using a cell phone. Sometimes for various reasons (fiber cuts, problems at the switch, etc) you just can't through on 911.

ctrabs that's why I keep the emergency numbers for UP and BNSF on my cell phone. If I see something like that I call the RR direct, and they notify their RR police, local law enforcement, and most importantly their trains. CSX,SPETA, and NS should have those number vailable on their websites.

 

[linuxwrangler]

47 seconds?!?

Those 47-second "average" answering times for 9-1-1 calls are awful...

Gawd I wish I could get a response in 47 seconds. My experience is that cellular 911 is that as currently implemented where I live (East San Francisco Bay Area) it is nearly useless - in fact it may be worse than useless due to the false sense of security it offers.

Last time I called (reporting a car-fire across the freeway) I was on 80 in Richmond when I dialed but on 4 approaching Martinez when they answered....

"No, I can't give you an update. Perhaps if you answered 7 MILES AGO!"

But since this has been the case in California for years, I guess the public and politicians don't really consider it a problem worth attacking.

As for me, I keep the direct numbers for the areas I frequent programmed into my phone.

 

[inigo88]

This story is a complete outrage, and AMR should not be allowed to continue EMS dispatching for that county. It's also worthy noting to those of you that haven't followed the issue elsewhere in the CA Forum, that AMR Lifecom is doing all of their public safety and EMS dispatching through talkgroups on a Commercial LTR Passport system, shared with private security companies, tow trucks and farmers. That's a frightening experiment in itself, considering the difference in support infrastructure between a public safety and a commercially run radio system. If their equipment failed normally, some of their subscribers would be inconvenienced. Now, with Lifecom doing countywide EMS dispatch on it, people could actually die. If that happened, who would be liable? Would it be the same situation, with AMR saying "Since we are a private for-profit company, we had an obligation to make the most money possible, and go with the cheapest radio system option with a simple subscription to an already available commercial provider." ?

 

[n6766j]

Not quite

I think there is a big string of failures right from the start. First only use your cell to call 911 only if you have to. In CA all cell 911 calls go to CHP and then get redirected to the right PD or FD. That takes time. The secound thing is know where you are. That is even more importent when in a new house or a new tract. Yes CAD's get updated all the time but right now in CA there is a big building boom and it takes time for the system to be up to speed.

All 9-1-1 cellular calls USED TO go through CHP. City police departments around the state are now answering 9-1-1 calls when the call is initiated from someplace other than a freeway. (I can't explain the technology that makes this possible). But you're right! If you are at home and have an available landline...USE IT! It is very frustrating to have a caller at a residence use his/her cell phone, then not know the correct address. And finally, KNOW WHERE YOU ARE. If you are on the freeway, most exits in California now have an exit number. Use it!

 

[code3cowboy]

This story is a complete outrage, and AMR should not be allowed to continue EMS dispatching for that county. It's also worthy noting to those of you that haven't followed the issue elsewhere in the CA Forum, that AMR Lifecom is doing all of their public safety and EMS dispatching through talkgroups on a Commercial LTR Passport system, shared with private security companies, tow trucks and farmers. That's a frightening experiment in itself, considering the difference in support infrastructure between a public safety and a commercially run radio system. If their equipment failed normally, some of their subscribers would be inconvenienced. Now, with Lifecom doing countywide EMS dispatch on it, people could actually die. If that happened, who would be liable? Would it be the same situation, with AMR saying "Since we are a private for-profit company, we had an obligation to make the most money possible, and go with the cheapest radio system option with a simple subscription to an already available commercial provider." ?

Now if they were on conventional non comunity repeaters, that would not be an issue. Many of those mom n pop ambulance providers in LA and Orange Counties are on LTR systems as well.

 

[scannerboy02]

Manteca joins other cities in suing county
Manteca's City Council has approved a confidentiality agreement with the cities of Lodi and Stockton in a joint lawsuit against San Joaquin County over dispatching ambulances and fire crews for medical emergencies.
The San Joaquin County has filed a lawsuit against Manteca for refusing to switch to a private medical dispatch service.
"The county decided all secondary services would be transferred to Life-Com," said Manteca Fire Chief George Quaresma.
The San Joaquin County had made a deal with American Medical Response (AMR) to dispatch all ambulances within the county.
Currently all 911 calls placed in Manteca first go to Stockton where they are later transferred to Manteca medical services.
Under the proposed arrangement all calls would be transferred to a dispatch center run by American Medical Response in Salida, which officials believe will add a further delay to their response times.
The target time for most medical emergencies is five minutes. Any calls responded to after the five minute window have a significant drop in the probability of survival.
Manteca's municipal attorney John Brinton said the use of a new private dispatcher would contradict the city's policy to act in the best interest of the public.
"It slows down and impedes the fire service from saving lives," Brinton said.
Brinton said the agreement with Lodi and Stockton, who also face lawsuits from the San Joaquin County, would preserve each city's rights to confidentiality.
"We would not be allowed to let third parties know outside the process," Brinton said.
Brinton said the agreement is typical of most joint lawsuits and helps prevent the disclosure of information about business operations and procedure.
"It might benefit competitors," Brinton said. "It might be something they don't want to share with AMR."
By SAM VASQUEZ
Staff reporter of the
Manteca (Calif.) Bulletin

 

[tcomm_specialist]

San Joaquin is not the only County to utilize the services of AMR for dispatching Fire/EMS. Sonoma County has been doing it for about 3 years now. I am sure there are others, it's a cash flow thing.

A point to consider: AMR is a foreign owned company, Canada in this case. It is against FCC regulations for a foreign entity to own a license in the USA. AMR bought up existing ambulance services and has been using their legacy systems. Also, renting time on a LTR can get expensive. So does acting as an agent for a local government entity clear them of the ownership issue? It does save them LTR payments.

Also, I have noticed that since the cut over to Lifecom the audio on San Joaquin Fire Dispatch has a "hollow" tone to it. I am not sure how they are relaying the audio to Salida and back but it seems to be causing the problem.

 

[scannerboy02]

The San Joaquin County EMS Agency has released its findings on the dispatch of ambulance service to Keyser Drive


http://www.sjgov.org/ems/

 

[Eng74]

An interesting read for anyone who is in the EMS field. Sounds like the ball was dropped on a few sides. I wonder what the beef is between Stockton Fire and the EMS Board. It reads like something has been going on between the two for a while.

 

[PJH]

A little late to the party...but some points to ponder...

I have personally never heard of VOIP "911 operators". Perhaps maybe a small startup company tried something, but I have never heard of it.

VOIP's are now required (most are compliants are close) to allow direct 911 access to a PSAP. We get calls direct with ALI information. How accurate or formatted ALI information tends to vary. The ALI stuff is all suppose to be formatted the same way nationwide. What is on my acutal 911 screen will be the same in another state. At the least, the VOIP 911 caller will be directed onto a PSAP's 7 digit "non-emergency" number. It may not have location information, but it gets you do the 911 center.

When cell phones started with 911 centers, by default ALL cells went to the state police. In some places, sheriff's got it, but usually state. It still amazes me that large areas of CA do not have standard 911 service (Been around since the 1960's in it earliest form).

Celluar 911 sucks. BUT, it really depends on where the phone is, and the meathod used by the carrier to locate the phone...be it by GPS or radio location. If your in a car, train, inside a building, your just not going to get an accurate location.

Then, there are the stupid people. Yes, there ARE stupid people. They have absouletly NO CLUE where they are. Where I work in NY, we get a lot of summer people up here in the mountains. I had a call last year reporting a fire. It was a summer person on a cell phone and no phase 2 was available at the time. It went like this:

Whats your address?
-I don't know

Well, where are you?
-Upstate

Upstate covers about 95% of New York. Where ARE you?
-I don't know

What town are you in?
-I don't know

How did you get there?
-I don't know

Is there another house where you can go and call from a normal phone?
-No

There isn't any other neighbor?
-There is, but I don't want to wake them up

So how did you get there?
-Well, you leave Brooklyn, go over the GW Bridge....

Lets fast forward until you got to the county. Where did you go from there?
-I don't know

Etc etc etc

THATS ANNOYING! And it happens ROUTINELY in the summer. Not that our local population is high on the IQ chart either, but...

As for the LTR system, whats your point? ANY system can and will fail at any time, be it conventional or trunked, commerical or private. In fact, I would say that many commerical systems tend to get better PM then many public safety systems. Larger cities and counties with their own in house staff excepted of course. Most public safety systems are maintained by commerical providers.

I've had towers go down in the middle of the night, dropping 1/5 to 2/5's of the county in coverage, but was told by the county radio guy that he isn't coming until the morning.

At my old place, we called up the commerical radio guy, and had someone there within an hour or two at the most.