Antennas 101

[Stargater53]

After becoming interested in ham radios, more specifically Baofengs, I have gained a certain admiration for them, especially the more recent ones. Yes, I first studied them, then placed my order.

A friend of mine ordered three UV-5Rs and I ordered a couple of UV-82/8Ws. When he saw my UV-82s, he was immediately sorry he hadn't ordered the 82s, even though he had ordered the 8W UV-5Rs.

But when it came to antennas, we both were a bit stumped. Yes, Nagoyas looked great and a super reputation, but there were many Chinese knockoffs floating around eBay that were the same appearance, same weight, same height. They even seemed to be made of the same materials.

It isn't rocket science. Companies like Tidradio, Radioddity, Abbree, Retevis and dime-a-dozen no-name brands are making antennas left and right, and some of them seem to be very well made and others mediocre. (I ordered ten Retevis RHD-771s that are made of a thicker gauge materials and two or three Abbree titanium antennas that seem to work very well. And several Nagoya NA-224j antennas that also appear to work very well.

My question is, are cheaper antennas really to be avoided simply because they are cheaper? I've scoured YouTube looking for honest-to-goodness range tests, but I've never seen any actual videos comparing decent knock-offs with known brands. Most inexpensive SWR meters are made for 20W-100W mobile or base station radios, not HTs. Surecom made a steel plate that went between the meter and the HT antenna, but they 1) added significantly to the price and 2) didn't work, so I've yet to see an inexpensive meter that worked!

Any thoughts? Views?

 

[ka3aaa]

just remember one thing, cheaper is not always better and you will only get what you pay for.

 

[mmckenna]

It depends on how much money the seller is willing to spend on quality control.
Sure, a lot of these things look identical, and are likely made in the same sweatshop, by the same underpaid/poorly treated laborers in a country that doesn't respect much.
One seller might jack up the price because they think they have a well known name. Pure profit.
Another seller might buy them and resell slightly over cost. They may sell much more at a lower profit and still do pretty well.

Chinese factories can produce good stuff, if the company that is paying for the production is willing to pay for the right materials and the right level of quality control. I have several Milwaukee cordless power tools, some of them 12 years old with 12 year old batteries that are still going strong. They were all made in China and have been just fine. I paid more for them, as compared to companies like Harbor Freight, because I know Milwaukee values their customers and will pay for a higher level of quality control.

With the low cost stuff, you may get a perfectly fine product. You may get one that should have been tossed in the reject pile.

Just depends how much money you want to spend to get the quality control and some slight chance of getting a product that works correctly.
Some are content with the $25 radios and the chance that you'll get the periodic dud.

 

[prcguy]

I bought a pile of about 40 Nagoya NA-771 antennas and identified at least four distinctly different designs out of the group with some whips thicker than others, etc. Some were in orange packaging, some in green, some clear, one had a official looking hologram decal and all claimed original Nagoya NA-771.

I set up an antenna range using an exciter antenna with a Agilent FieldFox in S21 mode with about 10ft between the exciter antenna and the so called Nagoya under test. They all worked the same. Same field strength across the 2m and 70cm amateur bands, basically the same VSWR. Mechanically they were slightly different but all looked like they would live a long useful life.

My cost worked out to $3 per antenna and I know several people made a profit on these before they fell in my lap.

 

[AK9R]

Josh at Ham Radio Crash Course has made several videos testing antennas including the brands popular for Baofeng radios. Here's a link to the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1KAjn5rGhixjP4Q9ielwACa12OF8dJwU

 

[Stargater53]

Just remember one thing, cheaper is not always better, and you will only get what you pay for.

Ouch! You may be right in some cases, but there are many exceptions. There are many bargains in amateur radio like...well, Baofeng! Do you think you only get what you pay for with Baofengs?

The other night we had some dinner guests over. I decided to take some stuff off the mantle and try something different. I put two rows of radios on the left side: a Tidradio TD-F6, Baofeng UV-82/8W, UV-5R, BF-H6, BF-H7 and a TYT TD-UV8000D. My wife was initially against it, but didn't care because our friend was an electrical engineer. And I determined not to say anything. Just leave them there.

When our friend arrived, it didn't take him long to notice the radios. They were good conversation pieces and I plan to leave them again!

Anyway, when it comes to Baofeng radios, I believe in most cases you get far more than you pay for. And when you get the TYT TD-UV8000D/E, it's even more pronounced! Not only is it a true 10W radio, it's got a built-in cross-band repeater. So, yeah, in many cases you get what you pay for, but when it comes to the UV8000D, you get so much more! And that's the thing everyone wants...they want more than what they pay fer, and in the radio world there’s more of that where it came from! I also remember, from my other hobbies, firearms and camping knives -- I always got more than what I paid for. The great thing about the USA (at least up to now) is that there you can get much more than what you pay for.

Josh at Ham Radio Crash Course has made several videos testing antennas including the brands popular for Baofeng radios. Here's a link to the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1KAjn5rGhixjP4Q9ielwACa12OF8dJwU

Thanks! Josh is someone I like to watch. Also, NotARubicon. Randy is more for entertainment value, but he had a bad experience with ham radio people.

 

[mitaux8030]

There seems to be some unwritten rule regarding antennae that come with such radios: that all antennae supplied with the radio are woeful and simply must be replaced with an aftermarket antenna. It even persists with the big name radio manufacturers such as YaeKenCom. This pervasive and persistent belief baffles me, as it's simply not true, at least not all the time.

My testing shows that the OEM antennae supplied by AnyTone and with some (shock, horror!) Baofeng models are actually very effective, both in terms of return loss (aka SWR) and ability to produce & receive a good signal, especially when taking in to account the length of the antenna. Compared to a genuine, paid-top-dollar-from-a-beyond-reproach-supplier Nagoya of similar length, I noticed absolutely no difference with extensive testing under a variety of conditions, on both VHF & UHF.

So I'd be very happy to see that myth dispelled, but given it's widespread & deep rooted but misguided belief, I doubt that will ever change, and people will continue to blindly spend more money on something that gives them absolutely no benefit, other than the nice warm fuzzy feeling that they've spent some of their hard earned coin, ergo, 'it must be better.'

Of course, there are exceptions to this, for example if you needed max performance on VHF alone, a single band antenna with a longer radiator than the typical OEM supplied antenna is clearly going to be a better choice.

It is also frustrating to see questions like "what's the best antenna?" as if there is just one single solitary universal answer - that's like asking what's the best food? (that would be cheese, and any other answer is wrong!)

But to answer the original query: I've come across some cheaper aftermarket antennae that would be considered 'cheap knock offs' that do work just as well as their higher priced brethren, and some that certainly fall well short... it all seems very inconsistent, and that is not at all helpful to the consumer.

 

[mmckenna]

So I'd be very happy to see that myth dispelled, but given it's widespread & deep rooted but misguided belief, I doubt that will ever change, and people will continue to blindly spend more money on something that gives them absolutely no benefit, other than the nice warm fuzzy feeling that they've spent some of their hard earned coin, ergo, 'it must be better.'

I can't speak for the CCR's, but in my experience, the stock antennas that come with Kenwood, Icom, Motorola and Harris radios are pretty dang good. Most have options for antennas, specific to a segment of the band, or a certain type of performance. I've never felt the need to run anything other than manufacturer antennas. Others may certainly feel differently.

Often, the issue with the antennas isn't the antenna at all, it's the counterpoise, or lack thereof, presented by the radio. A radio with a metal body that couples with the users hands well can perform better than a plastic shell toy radio.

Of course, there are exceptions to this, for example if you needed max performance on VHF alone, a single band antenna with a longer radiator than the typical OEM supplied antenna is clearly going to be a better choice.

Absolutely, and you'll often see this in the wildland fire business, 1/4 wave VHF antennas on top of the radio. It's a pain in the butt for someone carrying the radio around day to day, but the slight edge in performance can be useful if you don't mind the antenna there.

It is also frustrating to see questions like "what's the best antenna?" as if there is just one single solitary universal answer - that's like asking what's the best food? (that would be cheese, and any other answer is wrong!)

Yep, like the perennial question "What's the BEST coax?"

But to answer the original query: I've come across some cheaper aftermarket antennae that would be considered 'cheap knock offs' that do work just as well as their higher priced brethren, and some that certainly fall well short... it all seems very inconsistent, and that is not at all helpful to the consumer.

Not all radio companies make their own antennas. It's cheaper to farm it out to a manufacturer that specializes in it, has the right equipment, and can provide a better price. I think a lot of the "knock off" antennas that we see are production overruns, or "Hey, lets produce a few thousand more of these and sell them with our name on them".

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Motorola made a running change in the UHF 450-470 MHz (green dot) MX style Helical antenna that shipped with Saber and Systems Sabers years ago. It started with a part number substitution , "buy this PN it is same". But I noticed it had very poor in radiation efficiency at 462 MHz compared to the original. I contacted product services and was assured the new vendor made them same as the old. So I contacted the new vendor and was told they were tuning them at 418 !!! MHz just like Motorola instructed. I later found the part number now showed 440-460 MHz. I don't know if they figured only hams would buy them so lets make them a bit longer or if the vendor had no clue what the 12M specs required. I have gone back to using 1/4 waves because of that disappointment.

 

[paulears]

I totally agree with the notion that the supplied antennas are often ‘best’. If you buy a radio for home or your office, then the tiny differences in performance are tiny compared to what your outside antenna can do. Broadly, they do three things. Polar pattern horizontally. Omni or a narrower beam. A huge difference. Gain is more tricky. Gain isn’t magic, it comes from somewhere. Reduce the omni to a particular direction and gain goes up. Keep adding those directors to a yogi and it gets narrower and distance goes up. Or, in an omni, stop wasting signal going upwards and concentrate it more towards the horizon and up goes the distance.

many people seem to want extra performance from a hand held. First thing people always forget is that handheld radios have belt clips, go in the pocket, or tucked into clothes. This is where they are when people call you. Those small antennas allow the radio to be in the pocket while the mega antennas don’t. Then you have orientation. The well schooled hobby radio person knows that with their favourite aftermarket antenna on it to squeeze the last micro dB the antenna has to be vertical, and your head not between radio and desired other end of the path because it’s a barrier. When you speak, you must keep the antenna vertical and if that extra magic in the antenna make a conversation possible, will you lose it when putting the radio to the ear? Do you keep the antenna in one position and move your body to change mouth to ear position?

the clever antennas might work in the optimum position, but fail totally with a tiny positional change. It’s pointless to operate this way it’s so difficult to work right at the edge. Compressed quarter waves are pretty steady performers even when in the less than ideal orientation. The clever antennas are not.

my own tests show many are just rubbish antennas. My own video is pretty damning

I am not certain there is a real company called Nagoya. I am more and more thinking it’s a generic brand for antennas. the orange and green packaging are just sourced and used. The design works, and from my own purchases, I think there are at least four main sources, all with the same basic product. This applies to diamond too. I’m not convinced there actually is a factory with diamond or Nagoya over the door, it’s just a name applied to common designs. I buy a variation of the diamond 30 from a marine band antenna manufacturer. It’s a d-30 in the same fibreglass shroud that my marine antennas come in. Inside, it is exactly the same design as diamond ones. The allen grub screws have a slightly different thread, to match the marine antennas, but the diameter of the wire, the coils, the capacitor- are all the same. It has no better performance, but is heavier and slightly thicker. My bet is that diamond antennas are made all over the place and are not brands as we normally think of them. Like j-pole antennas and the similar slim jim, or the other ham type antenna designs. A common piece of physics. If you make one in your factory, then you brand it a j-pole. In the US and the EU/UK we treat designs and brands as separate. In China, designs seem totally shared. We have Kydera, Retevis, radioddity and TYT with identical radios, even sharing software. i bet there is one factory making them, and then either a chain of distribution. What make they really are is a total guess. sometimes they have different cases to give a little difference, but often no difference at all.

 

[jeepsandradios]

I find it entertaining that folks complain when they spend $25.00 on an HT that the antenna is junk then spend $40 on a rubber duck.

 

[vagrant]

Rubber ducks:

The Motorola PMAT4001A is a darn good VHF/UHF antenna. I even use it on my single band XTS5K radios. The only other radio it (sort of) fits are Baofengs. They need a rubber spacer.

The best amateur/GMRS UHF antenna still remains the Diamond SRH77CA, and the other two connector versions of that antenna for UHF.

I often use the Diamond SRH320A on my dual and tri-band radios as it performs well on VHF/UHF.

I would prefer to use the supplied antenna, but I am often looking for “improvement“ and not “good enough“. A handheld needs all the help it can get. I would definitely prefer to not have spent money on many different handheld antennas as well for testing, but oh well. Compact compromised antennas are interesting.

* When stationary and practical, the telescoping antennas go on my amateur radios.

 

[AK9R]

The best amateur/GMRS UHF antenna still remains the Diamond SRH77CA...

You think one flexible antenna designed for handhelds is broad-banded enough to work equally well from 440 MHz to 467 MHz? I'm not doubting you, but I am skeptical.

 

[vagrant]

I think it was best, but there could be a dedicated GMRS antenna I have not tried. Wait, equally well, no but better than others I tested over the years.

 

[paulears]

Frankly, for portable radios, a bit of wire in the sky is all you need. The better the antenna you have, the better the operator you have to be!