anyone able to get a CB antenna to work on a Jeep TJ it's like the old CJ's??

[niceguy71]

Finding my brackets was the easy part; remembering which forum I was supposed to respond back was the hard part. I looked all over the Jeep forum for my previous message and realized that it was on this forum.

Oh well, the little bracket was from Rugged Radios and the other bracket was from either Extreme Terrain or Teraflex.

Laird Antenna has NMO Non-Ground Plane antennas. Essentially, there are no good ground planes on Jeeps. The Laird has a base loaded coil non-ground plane and Phantom Non-ground plane. I have both but I don't usd them on my Jeep. I use a Larsen Glass-Mount Antenna on my Jeep wigh great success.
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thank you Nokones
so those are the ones that work good huh... and a Firestick II... ok thanks for the info..

 

[slowmover]

Grabbed a couple of Jeep A-Pillar brackets from DTB Radio in Carlisle, PA alike to those shown above. Owner had his Jeep set up that way for other than CB.

Looked handy to me for my own uses.

 

[niceguy71]

Im familiar with nearly all the brackets for Jeeps. I avoid most of them due to poor ground plane issues or placing the antenna way below hood level. Here is the best picture of my mount I can come up with at the moment. There is some rubber stuff around the hood edge that obscures the underside of the trunk lip mount but hopefully you can tell if my hood is similar to the one your working with.

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thank you PRCGUY... it took me a few minutes to figure out the picture... now I know why you couldn't figure out my picture!.... if you're just looking at it.. it takes a bit of orientation.
that hood looks like a normal hood that I am used too... similar to the trunk lip... I can see the mount.... similar to my K40 mount but it looks much thicker.... I can see that a K-40 trunk lip would work on your style hood....... might be too tight but NEVER on my friends Jeep.
sadly my friends 2005 Jeep is nothing like it...... I'll take a picture of a cake pan and my K-40 lip mount..... as I said his is just bend to a 90 degree angle and the hood hangs down an inch ... so if I put a normal lip mount on it... and shut the hood the antenna would be going through the firewall and stick out level with the steering wheel

 

[niceguy71]

It’s hard to understand the edge of the hood in the picture but it looks fairly typical to me. When it’s closed is there a slight gap between the edge of the hood and the cowl, maybe 3/16 to 1/4” gap? Is the edge of the hood thin across the cowl area like just two layers of sheet metal for 1/2” to 1” before it gets thick?

If so the trunk lip mount sits on top of the hood and wraps from the top edge of the hood at the cowl around the hood edge between the hood and cowl then goes under the hood for about 1/2” where two set screws dig into the underside edge of the hood. I would send a detailed picture but I’m out of town at the moment.

I don't have the Jeep here for a picture... but I looked at his hood pretty closely and it is just a giant Cake Pan
in the below pictures I am using a 2 inch deep cake pan... his hood lip is a little over an inch.. but the hood and lip is just like the below pan.....
I am using the cake pan as the hood and have my K-40 lip mount on the back lip of the hood... as you can see.. sadly not going to work.
and I don't see a way to put a lip mount on it..
so if I can find a flat spot I can drill ..I'll drill a NMO mount into the rear right side of the hood.

in the hood picture you can see the hood hinge bolts that is the underside of the hood... in the picture above that is like a beam that goes across the hood... under the hinge bolts is the back of the hood lip.. it is two pieces of metal spot welded together... but it basically looks like a cake pan edge.

I thank you PRCGUY for your idea's and all your time.

 

[niceguy71]

well I am going to work on the Jeep again this weekend
I had thought I was going to try to persuade my friend into drilling the hole.... but as I look at the hood.... it is not FLAT ... the hood itself is flat on top... but the underside is all ribbed with bars and curves and bends to strengthen the hood.. I don't think I could find a spot in the rear right corner that I could get to drill for a NMO mount???? I'll look Sunday....
but I guess you guys find the same thing on the roof of trucks and still find a flat spot.... if I can't drill the hole... I was thinking I have the back of the hood... it's 3/4" of flat metal ..I drew a blue arrow to the back edge of the hood and circled the hood hinge
what if I bought this.... pictures are below..... Larsen NMO Bracket Amazon NMO mount bracket .....
I can take rubber gasket material and cut it in the same shape as the NMO Mount and glue it on the top of the hood then lay that bracket on the hood and drill two holes in the back lip of the hood and through that new NMO bracket then bolted it to that back lip?????

would that NMO underside and washer rust ??? I'm sure it is meant to be under the roof not exposed to the weather..... I guess I could paint it......

next question... would that give me a ground plane?

 

[mmckenna]

They make NMO mounts that only require a 3/8" hole, and the underside is only about 1/2" wide. I'm thinking if you looked carefully, you'd find a place that could fit.

Remember that the traditional NMO mounts were designed to go through the roof of a vehicle. The underside of most mounts is designed to be somewhere that is dry and not exposed to moisture, oil, fuel, salt, etc. If you do mount one of these NMO mounts where the underside is exposed, look for the Larsen NMOHF style mounts. The underside where the coax is connected is enclosed and better protected than the traditional mounts. You can improve it by sliding a length of marine grade heat shrink over the coax and use that to provide additional sealing where the coax enters the mount.

The mount you linked to has the coax exposed, and the copper will eventually start corroding and lead to a mess.

As for mounting that on a Jeep, not going to touch that with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

 

[niceguy71]

They make NMO mounts that only require a 3/8" hole, and the underside is only about 1/2" wide. I'm thinking if you looked carefully, you'd find a place that could fit.

Remember that the traditional NMO mounts were designed to go through the roof of a vehicle. The underside of most mounts is designed to be somewhere that is dry and not exposed to moisture, oil, fuel, salt, etc. If you do mount one of these NMO mounts where the underside is exposed, look for the Larsen NMOHF style mounts. The underside where the coax is connected is enclosed and better protected than the traditional mounts. You can improve it by sliding a length of marine grade heat shrink over the coax and use that to provide additional sealing where the coax enters the mount.

The mount you linked to has the coax exposed, and the copper will eventually start corroding and lead to a mess.

As for mounting that on a Jeep, not going to touch that with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

ok I know you know your stuff MMkenna..... so I will twist my friends arm and drill the hole..... but the only real place on the hood to put the antenna will be the right rear of the hood.... out of the view of driving ..... so that 6 inch by 6 inch area may not have a flat spot..... we will see....

BEFORE I drill the hole.... and lose a friend.... I plan to set a magnetic mount CB antenna there and test it to see if that location is going to make a good spot for the Larsen NMO 52"
will putting a mag mount in the same spot give me an idea how well that spot will work???? I plan to do RF Bonding on the hood to the tub before the test

 

[mmckenna]

ok I know you know your stuff MMkenna..... so I will twist my friends arm and drill the hole..... but the only real place on the hood to put the antenna will be the right rear of the hood.... out of the view of driving ..... so that 6 inch by 6 inch area may not have a flat spot..... we will see....

Yeah, they are a challenge. Usually modern vehicles roof tops have some amount of curve in them, and the NMO mounts still work. But, sure, careful installation as to not damage anything will be important.

BEFORE I drill the hole.... and lose a friend.... I plan to set a magnetic mount CB antenna there and test it to see if that location is going to make a good spot for the Larsen NMO 52"

Good plan. I keep a magnetic mount around for doing just that.

will putting a mag mount in the same spot give me an idea how well that spot will work???? I plan to do RF Bonding on the hood to the tub before the test

It should be 'good enough'. The magnetic mount will result in a bit more loss compared to a permanent mount, but likely not noticeable.

3/8" hole mounts:

3/8" NMO Hole Mounts - Permanent Hole Mounts | The Antenna Farm

theantennafarm.com

Notice that those do not have the enclosed coax connection points like the NMOHF mounts. Even if mounted through a hood, I'd probably cover the underside in some sealer of some type. "Liquid electrical tape" type stuff would work if done carefully. Silicone, something that will stand up to the high heat in an engine compartment. Might be overkill, but it won't hurt and is a good preventative measure. There's a lot of hobbyists that will skip that on exposed NMO mounts and live to tell the tale, so not like it's the end of the world if you don't. But it is worth considering.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Not alwasy the best looking but on our grass truck (1950 dodge military with soft top) we just drilled a hole center of hood, droppedin NMO and used it for lowband. When we went 800 TLMR swapped whip and again when the county went UHF.

 

[nokones]

If you go with the Lip Mount, definitely clean it, prime it, and then paint it and that will help with slowing down the rust process.

I strongly suggest and stay clear of any radio electronic related components from a source that does not specialize and market that product or service. You should be considering reputable radio electronics retailers such as DX Engineering, Talley Communications, Pasternack, Powerwerx, Antenna Farm, and Arc Antenna, and there are other reputable retailers that specialized in the related product or service.

The Antenna Farm is great, and I have done business with them in the past and they provide great customer service. I was going to mention Arc Antenna and they provide great Customer Service. The reason why I use Arc Antenna is because they have a warehouse a few miles from me and I get it the next day and they have great prices. I also use Talley Comm. because the two-way radio products are shipped from their Santa Fe Springs (LA) warehouse and I get it within a couple of days. Talley can be a tad pricey.

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Arcadian, Inc. is a master stocking distributor of ANTENNAS for Cellular M2M, UHF RFID, Public Safety/LMR & iDAS. Arcadian also offers related wireless gear including antenna mounting brackets, coaxial cable, enclosures, connectors and cable assemblies.

www.arcantenna.com

 

[prcguy]

So many Jeep owners install CBs that you would think they would take that into consideration during manufacture to accommodate both the radio and the antenna.

Jeeps are kit cars, when you buy one new you have to get a catalog and credit card and buy all the stuff that should have been there from the factory. If they don’t supply a simple hood lock why would you think they would care about radio installs?

 

[niceguy71]

my friend with the Jeep came over today... I am really learning I hate jeeps!
well the little Radioddity CS-47 cb screws right onto the radio/ heater control panel cover down by the shifter and looks like a great place to keep it... and the mic clip can screw to the right of the radio on the same plastic panel... so it will be easy to see while driving and easy to hear while driving... just like looking at your stereo.... so now the passenger seat can slide all the way up... I was shocked just how badly there is no room for a radio! but that little radio fits well there, .... we spent hours trying to get wires through the firewall and trying to find a switched wire to go to the relay that will allow clean power to go from the battery directly to the CB.
we worked all day and didn't finish it.
last time my friend came over he installed the tail light cb antenna bracket on and he scraped the powder coating off where the bolts went through.... but I could not get the SWR to change .. I cut four inches off the whip and it never changed... so a great guy here told me that the bracket probably isn't grounded and the radio is getting it's ground plane through the coax... after he told me that it made sense!
so today we took it off and I put it on the grinder and got nice bare metal... then I made 1 1/4 inch wide ground straps and we put it from the tail light bracket through the hole for the tail light wires ( Big hole ) I then ground the paint off the tub and connected it to the tub... I also ran another ground strap to the frame and ground off all the paint there and grounded it.... after we were done we painted it black.
I plan to put two more ground straps from the hood to the firewall so we can try a magnetic mount Stryker SAR- 10 antenna on the hood and see if it's any better than the Red Tarus /scarlett warrior/ Modulator ... its been around for a while... 6 feet tall antenna... but I think the hood antenna will be better.... I was hoping to range test it tonight... but getting the dash out and back in took a lot of time so next week hopefully we will finish it and test it out.... here are some pictures of the grounded tail light bracket.... I bet it's grounded NOW!

 

[nokones]

Wow, that is a lot of work. By using the Red Tarus /Scarlett warrior/ Modulator or the Stryker SAR- 10, are you guys planning on Skip Shooting the world and run more than a thousand watts of RF? Just kiddin.

What kind of VSWRs were you getting with the Stryker. By any chance do you have a Firestik II antenna handy to at least give it a try and compare.

How about an antenna analyzer that you can check the existing installed cable and then maybe try with a very short cable at the mount with the analyzer just to see if the installed cable and the mount is Ok? Assuming that you verified the fact that you definitely have a ground and with a grounding system like you guys did you would think you would at least get some decent VSWRs with any good antenna.

 

[niceguy71]

Wow, that is a lot of work. By using the Red Tarus /Scarlett warrior/ Modulator or the Stryker SAR- 10, are you guys planning on Skip Shooting the world and run more than a thousand watts of RF? Just kiddin.

What kind of VSWRs were you getting with the Stryker. By any chance do you have a Firestik II antenna handy to at least give it a try and compare.

How about an antenna analyzer that you can check the existing installed cable and then maybe try with a very short cable at the mount with the analyzer just to see if the installed cable and the mount is Ok? Assuming that you verified the fact that you definitely have a ground and with a grounding system like you guys did you would think you would at least get some decent VSWRs with any good antenna.

when we started months ago. my friend bought a 3 foot Firestick....I adjusted it to a good SWR of 1.5... but as you know I HATE firesticks and don't think they work... but he installed it so I checked the SWR with my expensive Rig Expert 1.5 on all channels ( I never get the same reading on ALL CHANNELS???? I should have known )
we range tested it and he got just over a mile ( NO SURPRISE)
so I bought a Taurus Red Warrior 6 foot antenna... that looks great for Jeeps.... they seem to love them in the UK and range test them and get the same range as the Sirio 4000 you tube of the Scarlet warrior AKA modulator AKA Red Devil

the antenna I thought would be fantastic Taurus Red Warrior AKA a Modulator AKA the Red Devil AKA thunderpole... you get the idea it's been around forever and well liked

we put it on, but I could not get the SWR to change?????... I cut 4 inches off before giving up... later I learned without a good ground it probably used the coax as the ground plane.... we range tested it with his yard sale 4.5 watt Cobra 25 LTD anyway..... we got 6 miles but every time he made a 90 degree turn he couldn't hear my 60 watt base station?????? not hearing my 60 watt base station REALLY SHOCKED ME!!!!!
see radiation pattern picture...

I knew the antenna would only work at specific angles...... but even a mile away if he turned the jeep one way or the other he could not hear my base????? ( see radiation pattern look at left rear bumper.. it doesn't transmit or receive very well there)
when he was going home there would be NOTHING.... then he would make a turn and we could talk.... finally when he got on the highway going straight... we were able to talk at 9 miles apart... but something wasn't right.... I was hoping it was just the RF grounding.

we are not trying to skip talk the world.. it is just a 8 watt AM / 15 watt FM CB, NO SIDE BAND ..... ( see my Radioddity CS -47 range test)
the radio we are using in the Jeep

as I said it was a lot of work.... to get a CB System to work correctly, and really work good it takes a lot of work!!! it got late and we didn't finish so I never even installed an antenna to see what the SWR was... I think I have another 6 hours work to do..... I have never seen a you tube video of a jeep doing a range test ..... their are a few where people are making fun of CB's and telling people to use FRS or GMSR radios... they say we are going to compare the two... they screw on a tail light bracket without grounding it and plug the CHEAPEST CB they can buy into the cigarette lighter plug and put on a 2 or 3 foot firestick on it... they go out and laugh and say look CB's get less than a mile!!!!!
those video's always piss me off as I know a good CB system installed properly can get over 5 miles.....

so I thought I would do EVERY TRICK IN THE BOOK with my friends Jeep and show the world how good a CB system can work!

sadly
I have been researching this for a year and have finally come to the rationalization that a CB TRULY just won't work on a jeep!
I know the antenna needs flat metal under it for a ground plane... the jeeps has no flat metal other than the hood and even then that small hood won't do much and placing the antenna any place other than the middle of the hood is just going to give terrible performance!!!!
but I'm still going to try and see what we get and make a video of the whole process.

maybe I'll be the only one in the world to defy the science and facts of a CB system and get a good working CB in a jeep..... but I now know why no one has a range test of jeeps.. and the only ones that actually work are the 102 whips in the side of the jeep..

after I finish the Jeep I'll post an update.